T34 and Tiger designs and such on the eastern front

If by "lines" you mean the white stripes on the turret, then no. A T34/76 at Kursk would not have had them. They weren't added until late '44 early '45 in an attempt to aid recognition as east and west converged in Germany. American and Commonwealth troops had not yet met the Soviet troops, therefore every attempt to prevent friendly fire was taken. It sometimes wasn't successful. 

Tigers, as well as all German armor at the time of Kursk, were painted dark yellow from the factory. Green and red brown were added as needed based on season and operational area. Kursk was July-August 1943. A lot of armor was dark yellow with just green added due to the season and enviornment. The Germans knew the Kursk battle was coming and was important to their plans so they "stocked up" so to speak. 

The T-34 at Kursk was an all over green. Ther were camouflaged versions but they were a very small number

Here is a link to some photos to give you a good idea.

https://blog.tiger-tank.com/incombat/soviet-tanks-kursk/

In contrast, the German forces had learned much about tank camouflage strangley from the Russians since 1941 and in February 1943 changed the base colour of their vehicles to a colour called Dunkelgelb nack Muster, or translates, Dark Yellow after pattern. This colour was sent to the RAL colour people along with a request that it was designated as RAL 7028. Now, this did not happen to this colour shade.

Now, the original Dunkelgelb nach Muster was used from February '43 to August '43 when it was changed after much feedback from the front.

As a german vehicle owner and restorer I have these correct shades. Here are the originals, being matched to AK's "Real Color"

Original Dunkelgelb Nack Muster. Dropped from service August 1943 being too bright.

What went into the RAL colour set as RAL 7028 was this one from August 1943.

May 1944 saw RAL 7028 change again. I don't know the reason why as it is a very effective base coat when combined with RAL 6003 and RAL 8017.

The above base colour would have been seen on new German vehicles in Normandy.

The last colour came into use during Christmas/new year '44/45. This saw a huge change in vehicle colours with the base coat being changed to RAL 6003.

Usage during Kursk.

All new vehicles from February 1943 were sent out in the Dunkelgelb Nach Muster base coat from factories. maintance companies would apply disruptive camouflage locally delending on operational theatre and conditions. This was mostly RAL 6003 Green. Armour etc already in theatre and painted the orogonal Dark Grey RAL 7021 were painted with disruptive pattern of Dunkelgelb Nach Muster.

Panther D tanks would have an all over DNM paint job with RAL 6003 Green disruptive pattern. They were the new boys on the block and their design was taken from the T-34. Hitler delayed Kursk to allow these to be put in place and used.

When Germany invaded in 1941, the T-34 and KV-1 came as a huge shock and very nasty suprise to the Germans and as the Tiger I was well into development there was no real way the new information got from captured T-34 tanks could be incorporated (mainly sloped armour) so the Panzer V project to incoporate the new information was started and the first D production models were rushed into combat at Kursk. It met with not much success due to testing etc being cut short and many Panthers suffered fires, breakdowns etc.

It's sucess was the 75mm main gun having much the same success against the T-34 tanks as the Tiger I 88 L/56 with a general one hit kill. the Panther sloped frontal and turret armour proved a success too.

The faults of the Panther were very quickly identified and fixed and the Panther quickly became one of the most feared armoured vehicles by the allies, who would press captured working ones into use.

For accurate painting of German armour during Kursk I would recommend Vallejo.

DNM 71.025

RAL 6003 71.092

RAL 8017 71.041

Russian T-34 base colour 4BO Vallejo 71.017

If you want to do a 3 tone camoflage one, then

Russian 6k disruptive 71.282

Russian disruptive 7k Vallejo 71.283

Frankenpanzer

If by "lines" you mean the white stripes on the turret, then no. A T34/76 at Kursk would not have had them. They weren't added until late '44 early '45 in an attempt to aid recognition as east and west converged in Germany. American and Commonwealth troops had not yet met the Soviet troops, therefore every attempt to prevent friendly fire was taken. It sometimes wasn't successful. 

Tigers, as well as all German armor at the time of Kursk, were painted dark yellow from the factory. Green and red brown were added as needed based on season and operational area. Kursk was July-August 1943. A lot of armor was dark yellow with just green added due to the season and enviornment. The Germans knew the Kursk battle was coming and was important to their plans so they "stocked up" so to speak. 

 

Ah I see that explains alot, wasn't able to get an answer to this probably due to the wrong keywords being used. This helped alot thanks!

snapdragonxxx

The T-34 at Kursk was an all over green. Ther were camouflaged versions but they were a very small number

Here is a link to some photos to give you a good idea.

https://blog.tiger-tank.com/incombat/soviet-tanks-kursk/

 

In contrast, the German forces had learned much about tank camouflage strangley from the Russians since 1941 and in February 1943 changed the base colour of their vehicles to a colour called Dunkelgelb nack Muster, or translates, Dark Yellow after pattern. This colour was sent to the RAL colour people along with a request that it was designated as RAL 7028. Now, this did not happen to this colour shade.

Now, the original Dunkelgelb nach Muster was used from February '43 to August '43 when it was changed after much feedback from the front.

As a german vehicle owner and restorer I have these correct shades. Here are the originals, being matched to AK's "Real Color"

Original Dunkelgelb Nack Muster. Dropped from service August 1943 being too bright.

What went into the RAL colour set as RAL 7028 was this one from August 1943.

May 1944 saw RAL 7028 change again. I don't know the reason why as it is a very effective base coat when combined with RAL 6003 and RAL 8017.

The above base colour would have been seen on new German vehicles in Normandy.

The last colour came into use during Christmas/new year '44/45. This saw a huge change in vehicle colours with the base coat being changed to RAL 6003.

 

Usage during Kursk.

All new vehicles from February 1943 were sent out in the Dunkelgelb Nach Muster base coat from factories. maintance companies would apply disruptive camouflage locally delending on operational theatre and conditions. This was mostly RAL 6003 Green. Armour etc already in theatre and painted the orogonal Dark Grey RAL 7021 were painted with disruptive pattern of Dunkelgelb Nach Muster.

Panther D tanks would have an all over DNM paint job with RAL 6003 Green disruptive pattern. They were the new boys on the block and their design was taken from the T-34. Hitler delayed Kursk to allow these to be put in place and used.

When Germany invaded in 1941, the T-34 and KV-1 came as a huge shock and very nasty suprise to the Germans and as the Tiger I was well into development there was no real way the new information got from captured T-34 tanks could be incorporated (mainly sloped armour) so the Panzer V project to incoporate the new information was started and the first D production models were rushed into combat at Kursk. It met with not much success due to testing etc being cut short and many Panthers suffered fires, breakdowns etc.

It's sucess was the 75mm main gun having much the same success against the T-34 tanks as the Tiger I 88 L/56 with a general one hit kill. the Panther sloped frontal and turret armour proved a success too.

The faults of the Panther were very quickly identified and fixed and the Panther quickly became one of the most feared armoured vehicles by the allies, who would press captured working ones into use.

For accurate painting of German armour during Kursk I would recommend Vallejo.

DNM 71.025

RAL 6003 71.092

RAL 8017 71.041

 

Russian T-34 base colour 4BO Vallejo 71.017

If you want to do a 3 tone camoflage one, then

Russian 6k disruptive 71.282

Russian disruptive 7k Vallejo 71.283

 

I see! thanks for this but out of curiousty I've seen this image having the caption of "Kursk Tiger" and I can't verify it and I kind of doubt its legitimacy, it seems to have the yellow camo but the two other colours seem to be drastically different from other Kursk german camouflage

this one:

A Tiger I at Kursk. Most likely green over dark yellow.

this looks like panzer grey with dunkelgelb nach muster disruptive pattern. it looks like it is a little dark for the green, but it could just be the light conditions, film quality and combat cameraman's camera settings.

snapdragonxxx

this looks like panzer grey with dunkelgelb nach muster disruptive pattern. it looks like it is a little dark for the green, but it could just be the light conditions, film quality and combat cameraman's camera settings.

 

nvm just noticed you were referring to the actual picture and not the one I posted oops

Is it historically accurate? excuse my ignorance.

nvm j

The picture you posted is accurate for the period. The grey used in the drawing is not the correct shade as RAL 7021 is much darker, but the artist could be trying to show dust etc.

At this moment I am working on a V2 plus meillerwagen and launching stand.

This is the completed stand in chipset accurate RAL 7021 Panzer Grey.

To make it simple, In February 1943 Dunkelgelb Nach Muster becme the new base coat for new vehicles made in factory and shipped out. This was to be complemented in theatre with RAL 6003 Green and/or RAL 8017 Chocolate Brown disruptive pattern. Commands were given a broad latitude on the disruptive patterns depending on the theatre of operations and this was applied at regimental/battalion/company maintainance depots.

Existing vehicles in theatre were to be left in the base coat of Panzer Grey Ral 7021 and a disruptive pattern of Dunkelgelb Nach Muster applied. RAL 6003 and RAL 8017 could be used as well depending on the Theatre of operations and this was done by the vehicle crews.

Any vehicle going into the maintaince company for repair or overhaul was given a new paint job.

You can see in this colorised image that the new vehicles, the Panther D's are in all over Dunkelgelb Nach Muster with what could be RAL 6003 squiggle disruptive camo, but it is difficult to tell.

The Tiger 1's look to be still in the Panzer Grey base coat in the rear and yopu cannot tell of any other colour as the camera his not picked up that detail. The leading Tiger I next to the lead panther looks to have had a new paint job but it does look darker than the Panther and looks to have a tritone pattern on it which could be confusing the software that colourised this.

It is a very well done colourisation, and it may be one of the rare colour images taken. Colour film was rare and new and not as accurate as we have now, but you can see how bright the colour is on the Panther D. This is why it was changed at the end of the battle of Kursk after reports from the front clearly stated that this shade made the vehicles stand out and was to bright.

Don't overly think things through. Read the information and keep the painting simple.

Is this the source material from which the image in question was found?



If so, it's caption is incorrect. With a tactical number of "300", it can't possibly be from the second company, as the first digit is the company number! Rookie mistake on the manufacturer.

Tiger 300, (Oberleutnant Barkhausen, commander of the 3rd company), sPz.Abt. 505, is a well-photographed vehicle and was in fact recovered by the Soviets after being disabled on July 17 near Werch-Tagino. Note the damaged muzzle brake and the hole in the middle of the barrel!

It indeed appears to be 3-toned, look in particular at the gun barrel near the mantlet. There is a very dark, thin band of color separating the two other colors. Other photos appear to show the wheels to be in 3 tones as well.

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger-tank/tiger-i-tank-44/

Tigers in Combat, Vol 1, states that the 3rd company, not arriving at the battle until July 8th, was "still in tropical markings" [Tropen 1 with leftover dunkelgrau as a third color?]. FWTW....

Too high of contrast to be Tropen 1, IMHO. Look at modern images of the Bovington Tiger 131 paint, the difference in tone between RAL 8000 and RAL 7008 are very slight and hard to discern from monotone in B/W images.

This is not the situation with Tiger 300. If we go with Tropen 2 colors, this would explain the yellow as being RAL 8020 and the light grey as being RAL 7027. But what is the third color? Is it dark green or is it dark brown?

A sample of Tropen 2 colors;

https://www.facebook.com/www.historycolors.de/photos/a.1491292161152113/1642170296064298/?type=3&theater

 The RAL 8020 appears to be too dark for the yellow of Tiger 300 and still the contrast isn't very noticeable.

Another view;

Here is another artwork showing the same interpretation, anyone want to translate the Russian?

Further discussion;

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/s-pz-abt-505-camouflage-t54666-s10.html