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M1 loses?

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  • Member since
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M1 loses?
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:43 PM
For all you current armor fans, I thought some of you might like this. Here is a link to a rather in-depth article about the action leading up to, and during the loss of those 2 M1s. Apparently taken out by Iraqi anti tank missiles from behind. Oh yah, and also some really good pics of the war too.

http://armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1704995.php

good hunting
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:47 AM
QUOTE: According to its maker and military records, those are the first Abrams to ever be destroyed by enemy fire. In the Gulf War, nine were damaged by mines but repaired. None had ever been destroyed. But one crucial streak continues: No crewmember has ever died in an Abrams.


Hopefully this streak will continue.

Thanks for sharing this link. Although I read the Army Times regularly while I was in the military, I guess six years some things get forgotten. Thank you for reminding me of yet another good source for news. That article was very indepth and detailed. The kind of detail not seen in many other places.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 4:24 PM
Didn't we just lose a crew that was crossing a bridge and the driver was shot, tank went off the bridge and they drown. I remember hearing something about it, but can't be sure because I could not confirm it.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 7:31 PM
In Gulf War I 4 M1 Abrams where lost to freindly fire. 3 From other M1s. 1 From an Apache. No M1 Crews where lost. The crew compartment is protected from ammo fires.

As far as the 2 RPG kills, the Iraqi's got very lucky.

The one lost off the bridge was due to a moronic driver not having his hatch closed. M1 Drivers are supposed to drive closed hatch at all times to keep from getting decapitated by sudden turret traverses. If he was driving closed hatch like he was supposed to it never would have went off the bridge.


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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 7:34 PM
any models or convertions of the sbrams with the mine plow? its sweet!!!!!Tongue [:P]Tongue [:P]Tongue [:P]
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 2, 2003 7:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by juniormodeler

any models or convertions of the sbrams with the mine plow? its sweet!!!!!Tongue [:P]Tongue [:P]Tongue [:P]


Tamiya and Dragon do a Abrams with the mine plow
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Friday, April 4, 2003 1:03 AM
Hey everyone,

Ok, I'm up to decaling my Tamiya M1A1. I need information on the 3/7 Cav's bumper codes. Would it be "3I - 3/7 CAV" or would it simply be "3I-7C" and then the vehicle/troop number? I'm also looking for information on M1A1 "United Flight 175" Its got three broad white kill rings around the bore evacuator and the name on the forward gun tube. Yet the only photo I have is of the gun itself. Anyone seen this Abrams? In any case, its a great kit, but I figured for $40, it could at least have a friggin interior!

Give em hell boys!
"1-6 is in hot"
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 4, 2003 3:15 AM
I don't think those are kill rings, I think they are unit designators. The Germans used kill rings for a bit during W W 2. I 've seen those pictures too, if you look when they show vehicles lined up they all have the three rings....probably for the 3rd Squadron. In my day it would be 3I-3/7CAV. Don't know if they would have changed nit designators since then Ron Grovinus is our current expert
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Friday, April 4, 2003 8:41 AM
J Delta,

From what I know, we started using kill rings in DS I. If you look down that photo there are at least three other gun tubes with at least one ring around them. The Brits are doing the same thing. I saw a Challenger II on MSNBC the other day with four. Nice shootin!

"1-6 is in hot"
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  • From: Exit 7a NJ Turnpike
Posted by RAF120 on Friday, April 4, 2003 4:41 PM
When I was in ('88-'94) our bumper numbers were like this 24I-3-69 with a filled in triangle following the 9. My best guess would be that yours should look like this 3I-3-7CAV. I say this because were the 3rd ID is now used to be the 24th ID and knowing soldiers like I do they just paint over the 24 and put a 3.
Trevor
Trevor Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 4, 2003 8:37 PM
Out of curiosity, have any of you guys found a source for the new smoke mortars on the contemporary M1s?
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 4, 2003 8:57 PM
Could anyone hook me up with some good plans, pictures and/or diagrams of the snorkel often found on the Marine Corps M1A1/A2 Abrams.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 4, 2003 8:59 PM
I believe they are a round or greanad simply loaded into the smoke tubes.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 4, 2003 9:05 PM
Exactly. The current ones are in banks of 8, mounted at different angles. I'm wondering if someone actually makes this or if its scratchbuild time.
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 4, 2003 9:30 PM


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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 4, 2003 9:31 PM
From a few years spent in 1/2 ACR, i agree with the no M1 combat losses as well. sounds like you guys have done your research well. On the other hand, there have been countless Bradlees lost, more than a fair share of which were from M1 fires. Then, the battlefield is a confusing place. Also, the rings on the evacuator are kill rings, at least on the tanks I saw when I was in. Though I be the lone survivor......Give em some for me.
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Saturday, April 5, 2003 4:13 PM
RAF120,

Thanks! Actually, I just found out that the tank I'm modeling is with 3/69 Armor too! I've got the codes as
3-I 3^69^. Not sure the platoon and company, but going by other markings I'd seen, I was able to figure out the unit its with. The tank itself is almost done. Just have to finish decaling and do the figures. The best part of this model was building the 1/35 M-4 Carbine next to the loader's hatch. Scratchbuilding a 1/35 ACOG scope was interesting! I don't think the tank has enough crap on it yet though. Gotta get some more supplies (MRE boxes, etc.) the bustle rack isn't nearly full enough!

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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  • From: Exit 7a NJ Turnpike
Posted by RAF120 on Saturday, April 5, 2003 10:13 PM
Glad I could help. I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of it when your done so feel free to E-mail me one or post it somewhere. As far as the platoon markings go the reply from justbuilt is right on the money from when I was there. As you can see by the caption that tank was also from the 24th ID.
Trevor
Trevor Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
  • Member since
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  • From: Omaha, NE
Posted by targetdriver on Monday, May 12, 2003 4:15 PM
The rings on the bore vacuator are generally not kill rings,but used for identification as to what platoon the tank is in. Red = First PLT, White = Second PLT, Blue = Third PLT. Of course this is all up to unit Standard Operating Procedure (SOP). Not saying that they are not "kill" rings, but I've seen them on way to many tanks that have not been in combat. On the tanks that I've seen "kill" markings on they have been sillouettes of whatever it was they killed (ie. T-55, T-72, Truck, etc.) Generally, they have been only temporary and not allowed to stay on for very long (PC, Commanders guidance, etc).

The two M1's lost recently, in direct combat, were supposedly killed by an Air Defense Artillery gun at extremely close range AND from the rear into the engine deck during limited visibility (sandstorm). The Marine Corp M1 is believed to have lost sight of the tank to its front and missed the turn that the tank column had taken and therefore went over the edge of the bridge which did not have a guard rail on it (don't know why). The end result was that the crew drowned as the tank landed on its turret in about 40 feet of water. There was another combat loss but do not have any details off hand. It was during a "Thunder Run" into Baghdad after we had secured the Airport. Unsure if it was a combat kill, or damaged beyond repair and destroyed by another M1 to prevent it from fallind into somebody else's hands. There were many pictures and video of reporters and Iraqi's standing on a burned out hulk the next day. At least one M1 was destroyed this way in the first Gulf War (read "Tuskers" An Armor BN in the Gulf War. By David Pierson 4-64 AR).
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, May 12, 2003 5:03 PM
CPT Monson,

The rings I was referring to were black, but thanks for the clarification on the colored rings, I was wondering about that. I've got 2 shots of the tank I just built. One before the war (no rings on the bore evacuator) and one during (3 rings on it).

I've seen shots of three M1A1s knocked out in the current war, although I'd heard reports of as many as 8 being lost. I've got a shot of one of the burned ones at my photo page.

<www.cobrahistorian.tripod.com/cobrahistorianshangar/id2.html>

"1-6 is in hot"
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, May 12, 2003 5:05 PM
lemme try that link again

<http://cobrahistorian.tripod.com/cobrahistorianshangar/id2.html>
"1-6 is in hot"
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, May 12, 2003 5:17 PM
Crap! I'm new to this website thing. Bear with me. I'll have the right link in a minute.

"1-6 is in hot"
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, May 12, 2003 5:41 PM
Ok, I think I got it. Go to <http://cobrahistorian.tripod.com/cobrahistorianshangar> and click on the Armor Photos Page. The site is REALLY still under construction. I just wanted to be able to get some photos up.

If this link doesn't work, just cut and paste it. That, I know, works.

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 12:08 AM
Try adding an APU to your bustle rack .May half to scratch build ,I did looks convincing ....
You could find good pics at Full metal Jacket link .
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 12:36 AM
Regarding the M1 losses during the Operation Iraqi Freedom, I've seen a number of pictures of the destroyed tanks. It proves one thing, tactic and luck can do serious harm to it. Nevertheless if we compare with the Iraqis, they suffer much more.
  • Member since
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  • From: Omaha, NE
Posted by targetdriver on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 1:29 PM
Sorry, I forgot about the Black rings. They are sometimes used as the markings for the Headquarters unit at Company / Troop (ie. Commander, XO, or somebody else). Not sure about Battalion or higher. I haven't seen these with any specific markings other than their bumper numbers and other distinctive unit markings.

Nice try on your link, but I still couldn't open it. Will keep trying tho!
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 7:58 PM
CPT Monson,

If you cut and paste the address it should work. Not sure why it isn't working now. Gonna try it one more time!
<http://cobrahistorian.tripod.com >
From there, click on the Armor photos page.

That works!

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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  • From: Omaha, NE
Posted by targetdriver on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 12:38 PM
I'll try posting this again!

Sorry, but I forgot about the black rings. They are usually used with the Company / Troop Headquarters (Commander, XO, or another Officer/NCO). The First Sergeant (1SG) normally does not have his own tank, but rather a M113 or some type of HMMWV, maybe a 2 1/2 ton truck. All depends on the unit. Normally only units with armor (M1's and Bradley's) will use the read, white, blue, and black call-signs.

I couldn't get your link to work, but will keep trying.
  • Member since
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  • From: Omaha, NE
Posted by targetdriver on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 5:00 PM
Cobrahistorian,

Thanks for the link. Hadn't seen that destroyed M1 before. It was not the one that I saw with all the reporters and Iraqi civilians on.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 15, 2003 1:55 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by edog

For all you current armor fans, I thought some of you might like this. Here is a link to a rather in-depth article about the action leading up to, and during the loss of those 2 M1s. Apparently taken out by Iraqi anti tank missiles from behind. Oh yah, and also some really good pics of the war too.

http://armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1704995.php

good hunting



Edog et all..

Two M1s were lost in theFirst Gulf to T-62/72 fire (can't remember which). Commander basically shut down his tank and fired the gun manually - was essentially invisible toall but the naked eye.Two butt shots. Heat of the rounds were tracked, third M1 zapped him. Crews of the M1s survived, but they were -extremely- lucky. (Thank God).

-T77
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