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sdkfz 222 in China - Tamiya 1/48

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
sdkfz 222 in China - Tamiya 1/48
Posted by waikong on Friday, June 4, 2021 4:17 PM

Here's something a little different, a sdkfz 222 in Chinese service - 1937, Nanjing area.

Figures are kit bashed from hasegawa, Tamiya, and ICM - then converted into an elite armor commander and a 'Big Sword' local militia.  Various Chinese posters and advertising for effect in a small vingette.

A bit more details and pictures on this page https://waihobbies.wkhc.net/index.php/14-models/ground/171-sdkfz222-nanjing

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, June 4, 2021 7:27 PM

Oh that's awesome Waikong!!! Really nice work on the 222, I love the weathering, subtle but there. And neat work on the figures and base!

I picked up the 1/35th Dragon kit of the early 222 in ROC colours a few years ago. Thankfully there are a few figures out therein 1/35th. And Hornet makes several sets of 'Asian' heads that can be swapped to Wehrmacht and other figures. 

And may I ask where you found the 'Little Golden Mouse' cigerette ad and signs? I looked around the internet a while back for some Chinese posters for a diorama that currently sitting in the box but I want to get back to some day soon. I didn't have a whole lot of luck. And not being able to read Mandarin didn't help me...  

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Friday, June 4, 2021 9:30 PM

I would pay dearly to have the choices in 1/35. Swappable Asian heads? Wow! BTW,  I copied the decals from that Bronco 1/35 kit and modified them.

As for poster, I just searched on "chinese ads 1930s" and use the image filter, no need for using Chinese to search :).  If you find a good candidate, but wanted to make sure the texting us appropriate, just pm me. Smile

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by GreySnake on Monday, June 7, 2021 10:32 AM
That came out great and impressive work on the figures! Nice to see a 222 in something other than German markings.
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, June 7, 2021 11:50 AM

Thanks Waikong! I've had the nice Chinese/American lady and her husband that own the local Japanese resturant (don't ask- all the Japanese resturants in the area are owned by Chinese and Korean/Americans) help me with a several translations. I may have to get you to help out in some places though.

I've used the Hornet replacement heads in several places. They work really well, pretty much just drop fit. Looks like all my photos are on my old Photobucket account though. I used a few with Soviet figures to get PLA tank crewmen for my Type 62 (posted here but with PhotoBucket watermarks) and a few on US WWII infantry to get ROK infantry from the Korean War. They're really good stuff. 

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/172448.aspx

 

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Monday, June 7, 2021 12:02 PM
Greysnake, thanks for your comments. Gamera - same here, all my local Japanese restaurants are Chinese or Korean owned :)
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, June 7, 2021 4:15 PM

Great looking scene I really like your 1/48 armor.

Really diffrent,didn't know that Nazi Germany supplied Chiang with wespons

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, June 7, 2021 8:19 PM

Tojo72

Great looking scene I really like your 1/48 armor.

Really diffrent,didn't know that Nazi Germany supplied Chiang with wespons

 

It's an interesting story- Chiang wanted his military brought up to date and the Germans were desparate for money so the Chinese started hiring German experts to teach the troops. They recommended German military hardware to make more money for the ailing German economy. 

When the Japanese signed the allience with Germany they were all about 'Why are you training and arming the guys we're invading!?!?!?!' So the Germans pulled out.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by GreySnake on Monday, June 7, 2021 8:30 PM

Chiang Wei-kuo the adopted son Chiang Kai-Sheks was sent to Germany in 1936 for a military education. He commanded a panzer unit during the annexation of Austria in 1938. He almost took part in the invasion of Poland till he was recalled to China to help against the Japanese. 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Tuesday, June 8, 2021 1:44 PM

Now that we are on this topic, I too was first amazed to see Chinese troops in German supplies.  Took a bit of getting use to seeing Asian faces in those helmets.  And speaking of Chiang's adopted son in Germany, here he is in full German uniform

or how about more Chinese troops in german helmets

To double the fun, Japanese troops on top of a captured Chinese Panzer 1

And to bring it full circle, Chinese troops in a sdkfz 222

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:23 AM

Now that's interesting guys, had no idea about Chiang's son. Thanks!!!

 

I do remember the weird case of the western Allies capturing Asian troops on D-Day and the guess that they were Japanese observers. Turns out they were Mongolian troops drafted by the Soviets the Germans had captured. Given the choice of helping build the Atlantic Wall or go to a POW camp they took the former option.

 

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 12:08 PM

Some historians believe this guy,others do not,but it makes a great story

In 1938, at the age of 18, he was in Manchuria when he was conscripted into the Kwantung Army of the Imperial Japanese Army to fight against the Soviet Union.[1] At the time, Korea was ruled by Japan.

During the Battle of Khalkhin Gol, he was captured by the Soviet Red Army and sent to a Gulag labor camp.[3]

Because of Soviet manpower shortages in the fight against Nazi Germany, he was pressed, in 1942, into fighting in the Red Army, along with thousands of other prisoners. He was sent to the Eastern Front of Europe.[3]

In 1943, he was captured by Wehrmacht soldiers in eastern Ukraine during the Third Battle of Kharkov, and then joined the "Eastern Battalions" to fight for Germany.[3] Yang was sent to Occupied France to serve in a battalion of former Soviet prisoners of war on the Cotentin peninsula in Normandy, close to Utah Beach.[citation needed] After the D-Day landings in northern France by the Allied forces, Yang was captured by paratroopers of the United States Army in June 1944.[citation needed]

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by GreySnake on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 2:20 PM
I don’t believe the story of Yang Kyoungjong. There’s no primary source for any of the information and it just seems like sources are just repeating what other sources have already said. The only supposed evidence of Yang Kyoungjong is a photograph
and testimony by a lieutenant interviewed by Stephen Ambrose in 1994 for his book "D-Day The 6th of June" and the lieutenant stating four Korean men were captured at Normandy and it. There aren’t any more sources! Ambrose didn’t question the testimony which he should have.
 
 
 In the early 2000 from what I gather someone found the above picture and somewhere along the way the story was created no doubt inspired by what Ambrose had written.    
 
 The soldier in the photograph didn’t even have a name till 2005 from a poster on Axis History Forum who later stated the information he gave had not been confirmed. Then Antony Beevor published his book “The Second World War” in 2012 and mentioned Yang Kyoungjong in the opening of the book with the picture above without any source! A major blunder for a well known author.  
 
Other books that mention him don’t cite a primary source for the story. Every book, TV show, website, YouTube video etc doesn’t cite a primary source. It is just a myth that has grown over time due to one picture and testimony by one man that was not questioned by Ambrose. It’s said he moved to the U.S. after the war to Illinois and died sometime in 1992 and nobody has been able to prove that actually happened. Ambrose was the one that stated he died in Illinois in 1992 again without any proof.   
 
 
After a little more digging and translating a few Korean websites the story is regarded as false in South Korea. There is no record of him in Korea, from his time with the Japanese, Russians or Germans.  Not to mention because he had been conscripted into the Soviet military he would have been forcefully repatriated back to the Soviets due the agreement the Western Allies had to keep Stalin happy during the war. He would not have ended up in Illinois instead a gulag if he was lucky as he would have been regarded as a traitor for joining the Germans.
 
Nobody has bothered to question it since Beevor wrote about him it seems and took what he stated as fact even without any source in the book he wrote. The myth has just grown more with websites and YouTube videos looking for easy ad revenue and just repeating what has already been said without checking the sources and the general viewership believing they have learned an interesting fact about WWII when it’s made up. 
 
The more interesting story would be to figure out who this soldier actually is. Has been rathe interesting researching nonetheless.
 
 
 
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 9:12 PM

Hmmm, there's a fantastic Korean movie 'My Way' based on that story. I thought it was entirely fictional but it's based on Yang Kyoungjong's story - be it truth or fiction. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 9:17 PM

And also the 'Flowers of War', an amazing Chinese movie. There are two battle scenes with Chinese troops wearing German style helmets and gear. Here's the biggest scene, the other is one Chinese sniper vs. a group of Japanese soldiers. 

The rest of the film is a group of civilians trying to cope with the Rape of Nanjing'. Fantastic film, the end always tears me up. 

They're big manly tears, but I do need a hanky...  

 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 9:53 PM

The Flowers of War, that is a decent movie with some lavish fight scenes.

As for the Asian looking German solider, I agree, the story is all heresay.  More likely, someone from the Turkestan area?  As the Germans did have a Turkestan division formed from both volunteers and former POWs from central Asia.

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by GreySnake on Wednesday, June 9, 2021 10:28 PM

I would agree that he was someone from the Turkestan division/legion. Or one of the many other divisions made up of POW's from the Soviet Union. That was something I was planning on bringing up in another post. 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Thursday, June 10, 2021 10:58 AM
Gamera, just watched the trailer to 'my way' you posted, looks like a great movie, truth or fiction. Greysnake, love to see more info if you have it. This turned out to be a very interesting topic that has nothing to do with the sdkfz 222.
  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, June 10, 2021 11:47 AM

Waikong: My apologies for veering so far off topic though. Embarrassed

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, June 10, 2021 12:00 PM

Gamera

Waikong: My apologies for veering so far off topic though. Embarrassed

 

We all did,that's what a unique build will do,stimulate lots conversations Yes

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by GreySnake on Thursday, June 10, 2021 12:48 PM

waikong
Gamera, just watched the trailer to 'my way' you posted, looks like a great movie, truth or fiction. Greysnake, love to see more info if you have it. This turned out to be a very interesting topic that has nothing to do with the sdkfz 222.
 

I’ve found a lot more information while writing a follow up post this morning. It’s going to take some time to put everything together as I’m become very interested in the topic. Waikong if you want I’ll send you what I’ve gathered in a message and anyone else who is interested or should I make a post in the Ready Room? 
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Thursday, June 10, 2021 12:51 PM

up to you, I'm ok with continuing the thread here as is. fascinating topic.  Guys, I wasn't complaining at all!  Lets just continue here - definitely a rarely discussed topic that I am very interested in. Smile

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Thursday, June 10, 2021 1:57 PM

I mean, if you really want to go off topic, how about posting an airplane pic in the armor forum? :)  Junkers 52 delivering Mail in China.

its just these machines and uniforms we have grown use to seeing in countless images appearing in a totally unusual environment.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, June 10, 2021 7:44 PM

Ah ok, as long as you're fine with it Waikong! 

I've got a Gloster Gladiator and a Polikarpov I-16 plus the decal sheet with Chinese markings I intend to use with them as soon as I ever get around to them. TimeEmbarrassed

And there is a scene where Fan Bingbing shoots down a Soviet I-16 with a rifle in 'My Way'. Which I don't think is possible, unless she hit the pilot and killed him. Yet it's the engine that starts to smoke and the plane augers in. I don't think you can shoot out a radial engine with a couple of rifle bullets.  

Still, it is a really neat movie even if accuracy isn't it's strongest suite. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Friday, June 11, 2021 4:23 PM

"as soon as I ever get around to them..." - hey, that's what I say ! :)

But a Gloster Gladiator in Chinese service, I did one of those -

build link https://waihobbies.wkhc.net/index.php/35-models/sky/world-war-2/81-gloster-gladiator-mk-i-roden

Now, before I get in trouble from posting airplane pictures in the armor forum.  How about this one, Italian CV35 in Chinese army. 

What's so interesting to me regarding this period in China is that they were desperate to modernize, and purchased from whoever were willing to sell.  So we see French, British, German, Russian, and Italian helmets, tanks, guns, planes, etc... all being used together.

Wasn't until the mid 1940's that most of the equipment became American origin.

Not to mention after the communists won the civil war afterward ww2, and took over much of that equipment.  So we see T34 tanks with P-51 mustangs all flying the Chinese red star.

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by GreySnake on Friday, June 11, 2021 4:50 PM

Apparently the Chinese Nationalists also bought a handful of 8.8cm Flak 18's from the Germans in the mid 1930's. Haven't come across any photos as of yet. 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, June 12, 2021 6:41 PM

waikong
How about this one, Italian CV35 in Chinese army.

The gwan fat guc fei period is a warren of rabbit holes.  Like the Fascist Italians who would up fighting the Japanese at wone point, only to be absorbed into them.

WHich gets weirdly circular As the Japanese ha used, briefly, and early Carcano rifles before building the original Ariska.  And (possibly) Carcanos returningto Japanese inventory later.

All of which is easy to muddy up, what with Carcano being 6.5x51 and Arisaa ammo being 6.5x50sr which makes them sound similar, but aren't in any real fashion.

Memory is failing me just now, but I want to remember that the Chinese may have bought Carro Armato from the Italians, if in small numbers (perhaps a few dozen).  Which is sore confusred as the Japanese had bought at least one Medium Carro Armato, before careening off into their own designs.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Saturday, June 12, 2021 9:34 PM

What a coincidence-I just finished a re-read of "Forgotten Ally:  China's World War II, 1937-1945."  I recommend it as an intro into the subject.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:37 PM

Waikong: Beautiful work there on the Gladiator! I think mine is the same kit. And that rigging, that's one of the main reasons I keep putting it off... 

Greysnake: There's a resin Chinese gun crew for the 88, I don't remember where I saw them now though. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, June 12, 2021 10:38 PM

the Baron

What a coincidence-I just finished a re-read of "Forgotten Ally:  China's World War II, 1937-1945."  I recommend it as an intro into the subject.

 

Got the same book, I really need to get around to reading it again. Really in depth treatment of the subject. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

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