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Armor...with legs, but armor nonetheless...

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  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: southern California
Armor...with legs, but armor nonetheless...
Posted by Palantirion on Friday, September 2, 2022 10:33 AM

Hello. My first work thread on the forum Technically this is a 1/144 mecha model, but I posted it in this section specifically because I approached it the same way as I would have approached a 1/144 armor kit. And I studied tank photos (mostly from Ukraine) to get ideas for how an internally burnt-out armored vehicle appears. Knowing my perspective on the build, I look forward to hearing feedback from more experienced modelers.

 

The kit is by Max Factory, PLAMAX MF-57, depicting Dougram after its (spoiler alert) heroic scuttling the end of the series. Most often this scene is portrayed years later with Dougram completely oxidized and sand colored. I wanted to put Dougram in a more immediate context, shortly after the fires would have died. As you can tell from the kit (and the series), Dougram was not actually "blown up" but self-destructed more internally (like a tank's ammo cookoff) and remained basically intact. To that end my primary focus would be on the effects of flames on his paint and the terrain.

 

Test fitting, with an old die cast 1/144 Dougram to compare scale.

 

The kit was beautifully molded, but for some reason the backpack cannon had a flat tip! So I drilled that out. I also (not pictured) cleaned up and scribed lines to properly separate the right forearm from the right leg where they cross.

 

Then my first attempt at zenithal priming. It was tricking to get the model assembled without fully gluing it, as would need access to inner details later. Not the best zenithal, but it was useful as a road map for shading later.

 

Then thin washes to lay out the colors. Note most of Dougram's signature purple paint was painted in a dark silver. Washes will come later to add some purple over these areas as I wanted to show how the heat from the fire had burned most of it away.

 

The base painting more-or-less complete, really more of a block-in. I would go one to refine the highlights and shadows to exaggerate contrast because of the small size of the model.

 

I was not happy with the slightly sculpted but smooth base. Sure, at this tiny scale we shouldn't see grains of sand because in scale they would by big rocks. And where Dougram was scuttled it was open desert, no rocks or distinctive terrain. But the base needed some sense of texture. So I experimented a little and ended up going with a mix of PVA and baking soda (with a little water) and that gave me a nice faint read of texture that I then enhanced with a couple different tan washes. The blast and fire soot was drybrushed using Muso Black. I haven't heard of people using Muso as an alternative to typical flat blacks, but I find its extra darkness reads really well as soot. You can also thin it to do washes. I used water soluble oils to add oil staining and hydraulic fluid runoff.

 

 

Then more refining of the paint tones, chipping, subtle heat-staining around the right side of the torso (exit of the self-destruct fire) with red and yellow inks followed by Muso drybrushing.

 

Then weathering with Tamiya powders and more refining and touchup. A pic with Dougram finished, posing with the paints used:

 

Better finished pics:

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, September 2, 2022 2:53 PM

Armor... Sci Fi... the lines get a little blurry sometimes. Techniques from one genre carry over quite well into others. Your battle damage work looks good on this mecha suit. Although it does look to be in better shape burned out than many Russian tanks in Ukraine these days. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: southern California
Posted by Palantirion on Saturday, September 3, 2022 12:15 AM

stikpusher

Armor... Sci Fi... the lines get a little blurry sometimes. Techniques from one genre carry over quite well into others. Your battle damage work looks good on this mecha suit. Although it does look to be in better shape burned out than many Russian tanks in Ukraine these days. 

-Thanks stikpusher. Dougram was definitely more well maintained by The Deloyer 7 than Russia's armor. And, those Russian tanks were usually wrecked by multiple external entry events rather than an internally-originating event. Yes, I am taking your comment too seriously ;)

If there's anything, choices, technique, etc. that I could improve I'm open to suggestion.

p.s. What stik do you push?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, September 4, 2022 11:39 AM

It looks good to me. I was first introduced to this series when Revell released various Japanese mecha kits as part of the Robotech Defenders line of kits in the early 80s. Of course, I had no idea what the kits were actually from.

Many of the Revell releases were done in pseudo modern military camouflage paint schemes and not in their cartoon correct schemes.

I built the 1/48th scale version of this kit Revell called "Zoltek". I have quite a few of them still left, but they are worth a whole lot more than I paid for them at Woolworth's back in the day.

  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: southern California
Posted by Palantirion on Sunday, September 4, 2022 3:15 PM

Rob Gronovius

It looks good to me. I was first introduced to this series when Revell released various Japanese mecha kits as part of the Robotech Defenders line of kits in the early 80s. Of course, I had no idea what the kits were actually from.

Many of the Revell releases were done in pseudo modern military camouflage paint schemes and not in their cartoon correct schemes.

I built the 1/48th scale version of this kit Revell called "Zoltek". I have quite a few of them still left, but they are worth a whole lot more than I paid for them at Woolworth's back in the day.

-Ha, we must be the same age. Those kits (and Robotech on tv) were what got me into art and models. At one point or another I built most of those kits, very badly I'm sure. But, and this is telling of how society has changed, it was really cool to have a model shop as an elective class in jr. high! When I went away to college a lot of my old toys (like all my vintage Star Wars and G.I. Joe!) got "mom'd". And most of my old models went too. In the past couple years I've gone back and repurchased most of them, including some I had forgotten about - like Orguss, and the 1:12(?) Southern Cross characters in their armor. Looking forward to building them! (except well this time)

Also, if you haven't watched Dougram, it's remarkably good. Very adult content in terms of complexity and plot (still fine for kids, no nudity or graphic violence). It goes places no American cartoons for kids ever do - like showing multiple sides of a political struggle, validating opposing belief systems, showing the humanity and tragity implicent even in victory, etc. High level themes, but in a very accessible wrapper.

p.s. How long does it take before my posts on this forum don't require a 24 hr hold to be reviewed by a monitor? Really bgus me not to be able to give them a final once-over because I inevitably find errors and hate [my own] typos. 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Monday, September 5, 2022 11:00 AM

First off...as a dedicated 'tiny scale' fan (at least for as long as my ageing vision holds out Big Smile), it's great to see 1/144 anything; the jewel-like nature that is that scale at its best really shows in your model.

Second...your weathering and battle-damage are quite beautifully rendered. Your artist's background really shows.

First class work! YesBeerYesBeerYesBeer

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Monday, September 5, 2022 1:30 PM

Yep, what they said!  Great finish on an unusual kit!

Dougram was one of the early "real robot" shows to air, and I thought the mecha designs were really good.  I think Kunio Okawara, the guy who did the mobile suits in Gundam, was responsible.  I liked the "stats" the Dougram mechs had - they were powered by gas turbine engines turning electrical generators, and thus had realistic limited endurance (like 1-1/2 to 2 hrs).

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, September 5, 2022 3:59 PM

Now See!

        I am not so nuts doing Gundam kits of The smaller mechs! This is a fascinating area of warfighting that needs to be emphasized . They are Plausible and different. Who would think that the Smallest soldiers could be selected to pilot one of these powerful Machines. If you have gone to Airshows and seen the cockpits and gunner positions in early W.W. 2 Bombers you would know what I mean.

     I used to own and fly a Warbird from this era. I can just barely fit in the cockpit now! Oh, and look carefully at the D.C.7C and C 54 and other planes of the propeller era at the Smithsonian/Udvar-Hazy museum complex. They were cramped ! So much so that the idea of a Mech for ground troops isn't a far fetched thing! Might save a life or two til we learn that war is not the answer!

  

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, September 6, 2022 7:45 PM

Oh wow, awesome job! You did a great job on the weathering and I love the abandoned dejected mood you've got going there too! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: southern California
Posted by Palantirion on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 12:41 AM

-Thanks very much you guys. I needed a reality check on this little guy...too much time focusing and thinking I was going in the right direction to be sure. Nothing beats fresh perspective.

gregbale

First off...as a dedicated 'tiny scale' fan (at least for as long as my ageing vision holds out Big Smile), it's great to see 1/144 anything; the jewel-like nature that is that scale at its best really shows in your model.

Second...your weathering and battle-damage are quite beautifully rendered. Your artist's background really shows.

First class work! YesBeerYesBeerYesBeer

-I really like 1/144 too. Coincidentally the only [tank] armor I've ever built was 1/144 scale, a T-34-85, and a KV-2 diorama. 144 is in that weird middle ground between full model and miniature, and can pull techniques from both genres.

Real G

Yep, what they said!  Great finish on an unusual kit!

Dougram was one of the early "real robot" shows to air, and I thought the mecha designs were really good.  I think Kunio Okawara, the guy who did the mobile suits in Gundam, was responsible.  I liked the "stats" the Dougram mechs had - they were powered by gas turbine engines turning electrical generators, and thus had realistic limited endurance (like 1-1/2 to 2 hrs).

 

-Yeah, I really like the realism portrayed in Dougram. I think that's a big reason why their designs got used in Battletech (which I played a lot, 1st gen). There was a believeability to them, like Star Wars' design language.

Tanker-Builder

Now See!

        I am not so nuts doing Gundam kits of The smaller mechs! This is a fascinating area of warfighting that needs to be emphasized . They are Plausible and different. Who would think that the Smallest soldiers could be selected to pilot one of these powerful Machines. If you have gone to Airshows and seen the cockpits and gunner positions in early W.W. 2 Bombers you would know what I mean.

     I used to own and fly a Warbird from this era. I can just barely fit in the cockpit now! Oh, and look carefully at the D.C.7C and C 54 and other planes of the propeller era at the Smithsonian/Udvar-Hazy museum complex. They were cramped ! So much so that the idea of a Mech for ground troops isn't a far fetched thing! Might save a life or two til we learn that war is not the answer!

-On the note of smaller mecha, do you know Votoms? It's my favorite of all the mecha designs, about as small as you could make a mech before it would become an armsuit (GITS or Appleseed) or power suit (Fallout, Starship Troopers anime). Votoms' design is small enough that it could enter buildings the size of a warehouse without causing damage. It was totally modular like a real military would have designed it, and with grab bars and lift points in the right places for alternative loading and boarding. All the little details, including that instead of sealing the Mech's cockpit from space/water the pilots' suit has the life support role. This allows the mech's hatch and vision system a wider range of situational functions. and alternate egress if damaged.

Gamera

Oh wow, awesome job! You did a great job on the weathering and I love the abandoned dejected mood you've got going there too! 

 

-Thanks! (and great name!) I can't take too much credit there, it's mostly the excellent original artist and the model designer who came up with the iconic pose. I tried to honor their intent.
 
You can actually watch the final episode 75 on YouTube for free, turn CC on. Skip to 16:17 to start the sad ending setup, 17:58 for the seppuku. Or skip to 22:08 to see the image that inspires the common representations.
 
p.s. I still LOVE the opening song.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 7:45 AM

Palantirion
Rob Gronovius

It looks good to me. I was first introduced to this series when Revell released various Japanese mecha kits as part of the Robotech Defenders line of kits in the early 80s. Of course, I had no idea what the kits were actually from.

Many of the Revell releases were done in pseudo modern military camouflage paint schemes and not in their cartoon correct schemes.

I built the 1/48th scale version of this kit Revell called "Zoltek". I have quite a few of them still left, but they are worth a whole lot more than I paid for them at Woolworth's back in the day.

 

 

-Ha, we must be the same age. Those kits (and Robotech on tv) were what got me into art and models. At one point or another I built most of those kits, very badly I'm sure. But, and this is telling of how society has changed, it was really cool to have a model shop as an elective class in jr. high! When I went away to college a lot of my old toys (like all my vintage Star Wars and G.I. Joe!) got "mom'd". And most of my old models went too. In the past couple years I've gone back and repurchased most of them, including some I had forgotten about - like Orguss, and the 1:12(?) Southern Cross characters in their armor. Looking forward to building them! (except well this time)

Also, if you haven't watched Dougram, it's remarkably good. Very adult content in terms of complexity and plot (still fine for kids, no nudity or graphic violence). It goes places no American cartoons for kids ever do - like showing multiple sides of a political struggle, validating opposing belief systems, showing the humanity and tragity implicent even in victory, etc. High level themes, but in a very accessible wrapper.

p.s. How long does it take before my posts on this forum don't require a 24 hr hold to be reviewed by a monitor? Really bgus me not to be able to give them a final once-over because I inevitably find errors and hate [my own] typos. 

 

I'm 58 and a half. I've been on this site since it started twenty years ago; it's never had a monitor for posting. You can always re-edit your original post, even years from now.

I still have remnants of many of my Robotech kits. I've also repurchased a few of them. I've tried to track down original instruction scans so I can build them as intended and not in the pseudo-modern camouflage schemes that Revell marketed them as.

I loved the sets that came with other little vehicles like the helicopter that could transport the robot and the spider looking tank.

I still have most of the large camel-looking "commando".

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by lurch on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 8:41 AM

Rob there are alot of us in that age bracket . I will be 59 in Nov. And a few younger and slightly older. Like Tanker Builder.

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 9:16 AM

Palantirion
p.s. How long does it take before my posts on this forum don't require a 24 hr hold to be reviewed by a monitor? Really bgus me not to be able to give them a final once-over because I inevitably find errors and hate [my own] typos. 

I think it only took a few days to get that released on mine when I joined.  I think these days they just want to moderate brand new accounts to minimize bots, promoters, and trolls.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 1:02 PM

Dougram is pretty kid-friendly, but I was taken aback just a little by the excessive male toplessness, especially the big guy who looked like a Pacific Islander!  Indifferent  I don't think he EVER wore a shirt!

Votoms is one of those "forever anime" series that seems to keep on going, despite being eclipsed by the mega-properties like Gundam.  New products, including model kits, continue to appear with fair regularity.  I was not a huge fan of the series, but it does have a pretty loyal following.  That being said, if Wave did a 1/35 Testarossa, I'd be all over it in a second!

Like others here, I'm also an older fart (57), but consider myself lucky to have been around in the early days, when modern Japanese anime was relatively unknown here in the US.  I had a sense of smugness when Robotech aired - I had bought all the Macross kits I ever wanted a year or two before, ahead of the crowd that had to suffer inflated prices!

There was this shabby local shop, Japan Video, which provided us with seemingly endless pirated VHS tapes to watch every week.  Back then, that was pretty much the only way to watch the shows.  I had been building Gundam kits for a few years until I was able to rent the three movies from the original series.  My friend Jon who has a sister that regularly travelled to Japan for work was our other source for anime.  He would ask her to buy laser discs(!!!) and then transfer them to VHS tapes for us to watch.  My first taste of modern anime was courtesy of Jon, and what an intro - it was "Macross: Do You Remember Love?" and "Nausicaa".  And the rest, as they say, is history.  Smile

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 7:15 PM

Oh and by the way, anime mecha kits are the gateway drug to MaK for the unsuspecting.

And MaK is the gateway drug into anime mecha for the armor guys.  Stick out tongue

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, September 7, 2022 10:49 PM

Real G

Oh and by the way, anime mecha kits are the gateway drug to MaK for the unsuspecting.

And MaK is the gateway drug into anime mecha for the armor guys.  Stick out tongue

 

Gundam did a series of 1/35 scale Hard Graph kits. That tank is awesome!

  • Member since
    September 2022
  • From: southern California
Posted by Palantirion on Thursday, September 8, 2022 1:06 PM

Rob Gronovius
 

I'm 58 and a half. I've been on this site since it started twenty years ago; it's never had a monitor for posting. You can always re-edit your original post, even years from now.

I still have remnants of many of my Robotech kits. I've also repurchased a few of them. I've tried to track down original instruction scans so I can build them as intended and not in the pseudo-modern camouflage schemes that Revell marketed them as.

I loved the sets that came with other little vehicles like the helicopter that could transport the robot and the spider looking tank.

I still have most of the large camel-looking "commando".

 

-Dude, you have a Maximillian! I had that kit as a kid too, now gone. I re-bought it (for too much) a couple years ago off eBay. The Buck Rogers ship it really cool, also on my list. Nice Orguss too (also an anime with a very unnusual setting and story - and surprise ending). I've been periodically seeking all the old Revell Battletech kits (never mind that I have the "better" modern Dougram kits by Max Factory) and there are only a few now that I don't have. If you want instructions I'd be happy to take pics and post them. Just tell me which ones and I'll see if I can dig them up.
 

Eaglecash867

I think it only took a few days to get that released on mine when I joined.  I think these days they just want to moderate brand new accounts to minimize bots, promoters, and trolls.

-Correct, mine was released right after I posted that question.
 

Real G

Dougram is pretty kid-friendly, but I was taken aback just a little by the excessive male toplessness, especially the big guy who looked like a Pacific Islander!  Indifferent  I don't think he EVER wore a shirt!

Votoms is one of those "forever anime" series that seems to keep on going, despite being eclipsed by the mega-properties like Gundam.  New products, including model kits, continue to appear with fair regularity.  I was not a huge fan of the series, but it does have a pretty loyal following.  That being said, if Wave did a 1/35 Testarossa, I'd be all over it in a second!

Like others here, I'm also an older fart (57), but consider myself lucky to have been around in the early days, when modern Japanese anime was relatively unknown here in the US.  I had a sense of smugness when Robotech aired - I had bought all the Macross kits I ever wanted a year or two before, ahead of the crowd that had to suffer inflated prices!

There was this shabby local shop, Japan Video, which provided us with seemingly endless pirated VHS tapes to watch every week.  Back then, that was pretty much the only way to watch the shows.  I had been building Gundam kits for a few years until I was able to rent the three movies from the original series.  My friend Jon who has a sister that regularly travelled to Japan for work was our other source for anime.  He would ask her to buy laser discs(!!!) and then transfer them to VHS tapes for us to watch.  My first taste of modern anime was courtesy of Jon, and what an intro - it was "Macross: Do You Remember Love?" and "Nausicaa".  And the rest, as they say, is history.  Smile

 

-Deloyer was HOT, once you get your tan on then ho way would you wear a shirt if you didn't have to, lol! Actually it was probably because it's quicker to draw. Same with the desert. Gotta think about production schedules.
 
I'm (almost) 49, an also grew up with pirated tapes being the only way to watch (non-Americanized) anime. Without subs of course. I think I'm lucky to have grown up being young when Robotech aired, so I didn't know it was a redub/edit of an original (and better) property. Allowed me to fall in love with the genre without distraction. And props to you for bringing up Nausicaa, still my favorite anime movie!  Ever notice that the "wall of impending doom" (marching giant soldiers in Nausicaa) image get used a lot in Japanese films? It hit me the other day when I was watching a youtube vid, a handheld from 2011, that I think the image (or motif) is a metafore for tsunami - the unstoppable natural force. You can see it coming, but are helpless to stop it.
 

Real G

Oh and by the way, anime mecha kits are the gateway drug to MaK for the unsuspecting.

And MaK is the gateway drug into anime mecha for the armor guys.  Stick out tongue

 

 

Rob Gronovius

Gundam did a series of 1/35 scale Hard Graph kits. That tank is awesome!

-Been trying hard to avoid MaK, and didn't know about the Hard Graph kits, because I have too much on my plate as it is. MaK's designs are really really cool!

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, September 8, 2022 4:27 PM

I think the waiting period probably had something to do with a former poster here. After he got temp banned he created a series of alternate accounts and came back and started harrassing the mods. I have a feeling the waiting period was to keep him or anyone else from creating a new account after being banned and jumping back in to create more problems. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, September 8, 2022 10:54 PM

Palantirion

 -Dude, you have a Maximillian! I had that kit as a kid too, now gone. I re-bought it (for too much) a couple years ago off eBay. The Buck Rogers ship it really cool, also on my list. Nice Orguss too (also an anime with a very unnusual setting and story - and surprise ending). I've been periodically seeking all the old Revell Battletech kits (never mind that I have the "better" modern Dougram kits by Max Factory) and there are only a few now that I don't have. If you want instructions I'd be happy to take pics and post them. Just tell me which ones and I'll see if I can dig them up.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Yes, I still have a Maximillian that I built as a college kid in 1982. I also have a V.I.N.CENT kit that was a clearance aisle purchase but never built.

I've bought a couple of Robotech kits on eBay and buy/trade/sell forums that I particularly enjoyed as a college kid.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, September 9, 2022 6:41 AM

Hey Lurch!

         Didja have to pick me as the older? You young Whippersnapper!

  • Member since
    May 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Friday, September 9, 2022 12:52 PM

Yep, it sure was hot on Deloyer.  But why did the bad guys, who "Never approve your independence from our Federation", always dressed up in snazzy orange jumpsuits with sharp white trim?  Maybe they had air conditioning in their Combat Armors.  Or the good guys' ones were broken.  Stick out tongue

It would seem that "early adopters" of anime share similar stories of scrounging around sketchy foreign video rentals to watch pirated VHS tapes without subtitles.  Big Smile  My parents sent me to nine years of Japanese school, which I resented and consequently did only well enough to graduate.  I had successfully flushed all that knowlege out of my brain by college, but instantly regretted it when I found anime.  It took a long time to piece things back together to regain even a rudimentary understanding of the Japanese language.

When my friend showed me the Macross movie, I was stunned.  When he showed me Nausicaa, I fell in love.  While Macross had the techno-wow factor in spades, the softer, more human story of Nausicaa really moved me, and it has been my all-time favorite anime ever since.  I got to see it in the theater recently, and it was like watching the movie for the first time all over again.

And then there is the other stuff, like Crayon Shinchan.  Stick out tongue

I learned a LOT of inappropriate words watching that show.  It was both a TV show and movie series.  Perhaps Western sensibilities won't get some of the humor, but I found it hillarious.  For the curious, the best Crayon Shinchan to watch is the first movie "Action Mask vs The Highleg Satan" (Akushon Kamen tai Haigure Maou).  The opening scene is one huge tokusatsu meme, and the song that followed had me in tears!

“Ya ya ya, unicorn papoi!”

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, September 12, 2022 10:21 PM

Very cool Ikar! Love the camo! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

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