Hetzer questions

 Hey RealG, give me a few and I will ask my brother about your Hetzer, he is very knowledgable on the subject. If I don't put it here I'll PM you.

Thanks Armornut!

According to the review posted on Track-Link, Tamiya based this model on their earlier 1/48th scale kit, which apparently was based on an actual vehicle;

"This kit features more "early" features than what Tamiya call "middle". The hull is basically a very early hull that is missing the rear-most left and right hatches on the engine deck, these were for fuel and radiator filling. However the small hatch in the commander's hatch is present. The early muffler without the heat guard is depicted, the heat guard was dropped at about the same time as the three little hatches were introduced. Three "pilsen" are depicted on the hull roof too. Tamiya have provided the later light weight mantlet and Type V housing too. This was introduced after the aforementioned features, so it is odd that the two small hatches are missing from the rear plate. Studying available wartime photographs do show vehicles with these features and not others, there wasn't a definite cutoff time that certain features appeared and others stopped. German manufacturers used a FILO (first in - last out) production method. The specific example in this kit is illustrated in Panzer Tracts (ref.2) pages 9-6 and 9-7."

I almost wonder if this vehicle was a rebuilt wreck, due to the widely-ranging time line of design features seen on this model. If this is the case, it renders discussion of which features should be present a rather moot point. In any case, the exhaust heat shield was still present on a known late June assembled vehicle, later deleted during July production. The July production vehicles still retained the perforated S-hook "tool box", the holes deleted in August. The cooling air outlet screen with the sliding cover should be present.

Ixion

According to the review posted on Track-Link, Tamiya based this model on their earlier 1/48th scale kit, which apparently was based on an actual vehicle;

"This kit features more "early" features than what Tamiya call "middle". The hull is basically a very early hull that is missing the rear-most left and right hatches on the engine deck, these were for fuel and radiator filling. However the small hatch in the commander's hatch is present. The early muffler without the heat guard is depicted, the heat guard was dropped at about the same time as the three little hatches were introduced. Three "pilsen" are depicted on the hull roof too. Tamiya have provided the later light weight mantlet and Type V housing too. This was introduced after the aforementioned features, so it is odd that the two small hatches are missing from the rear plate. Studying available wartime photographs do show vehicles with these features and not others, there wasn't a definite cutoff time that certain features appeared and others stopped. German manufacturers used a FILO (first in - last out) production method. The specific example in this kit is illustrated in Panzer Tracts (ref.2) pages 9-6 and 9-7."

I almost wonder if this vehicle was a rebuilt wreck, due to the widely-ranging time line of design features seen on this model. If this is the case, it renders discussion of which features should be present a rather moot point. In any case, the exhaust heat shield was still present on a known late June assembled vehicle, later deleted during July production. The July production vehicles still retained the perforated S-hook "tool box", the holes deleted in August. The cooling air outlet screen with the sliding cover should be present.

 

As modlers we sometimes fall into a trap of what is "correct". In the case of most military equipment and late war German equipment in particular there can be huge variations even to two pieces of equipment rolling out of the factory on the same day.

These vehicles were built for one year at the very end of the war as Germany's materials and manufacturing resourses dried up. There were all sorts of weird and wonderful combinations of features during that peirod I am sure.

As long as a very specific known vehicle isn't being represented it is probably safe too assume that any combination of features is "correct". 

Thank you gentlemen for your helpful input!  I'll use the muffler guard and air shutter, and the Swiss cheese toolbox.  Not going for a specific vehicle, so I'm gonna just choose  a camo scheme I like and run with it.

I might get banned from AMPS though.  

Terms like "early, mid or late" are basically meaningless. While it is true that a wide range of features could be present on late war German vehicles, due to part shortages, refitting of older vehicles to current standards, etc., this only works while moving forward in time. The statement "any combination of features is 'correct'" can run afoul if one is depicting a model, even an anonymous one, at a time period before the a particular parts' introduction, hence the effort in determining a proper time line of first usage.

Ixion

Terms like "early, mid or late" are basically meaningless. While it is true that a wide range of features could be present on late war German vehicles, due to part shortages, refitting of older vehicles to current standards, etc., this only works while moving forward in time. The statement "any combination of features is 'correct'" can run afoul if one is depicting a model, even an anonymous one, at a time period before the a particular parts' introduction, hence the effort in determining a proper time line of first usage.

 

Yes this is true as well. Care must be taken to ensure that you are not doing something that simply did not exist at that point in time. I meant more that if doing a generic vehicle at an unspecified time period then determining what should or shouldn't be there is not effective. I  personally do a bit of both. An unmarked tank will get a nice paint job but not a pile of specific research. A certain identified vehicle may get more research time than it takes to build. 

Real G

Thank you gentlemen for your helpful input!  I'll use the muffler guard and air shutter, and the Swiss cheese toolbox.  Not going for a specific vehicle, so I'm gonna just choose  a camo scheme I like and run with it.

I might get banned from AMPS though.  

 

That's my thinking techniques and execution over 100% accuracy

Real G

I might get banned from AMPS though.  

 

Yep, there are those modeler types out there.  But it does beg the question:  Why.  So.  Serious?

Because if you take it TOO seriously, you end up looking like this:

You don't want to be that guy.

Real G

Yep, there are those modeler types out there.  But it does beg the question:  Why.  So.  Serious?

You don't want to be that guy.

 

I suffer from Manic Modeling Syndrome and swing between the extremes at the slightest whim.

I spent two months looking at pictures and planning before I even had the kit in my hand. For two weeks I agonized over and read long debates over what colour primer was used in the wheel bays (only to discover that at that point in time is was NONE because they couldn't get it). This was for a very specific subject at a recorded moment it time.

To my very next projects where I hardly even looked at the instructions much less anything else. Glued together straight out of the box, painted and two done in a weekend. Don't know nor care if they are designed and molded even 10% accurate to the real thing.

Of course most are someplace between these extremes so I will remain firmly on the fence on the subject.

   Brother says perferated tool box was used by only one manufacturer, and the perferated muffler was Early production only depending on BMM or Skoda mfg.....

     I truely like the other replies as well as your choice to build what you want the way you ant it.  APMS is overrated LOL.

       Accuracy has its place, research is important however as stated unless you are modelling one vehicle that Uncle Fritz welded a headlight on...on a Wednesday....hungover....and mad that Helgaa is flirting tith Hans from road wheel installation then it's an excersise in futility. Bubba ain't gonna know the difference.

You choose your fights.  It's the only way to retain your sanity.

I used to be like a little psycho terrier or pomeranian when it came to "getting it right", but now I'm more like a dead beached whale, with seagulls and flies buzzing around.  Maybe the tide will wash me back out to sea, maybe not.

Oh look, a Hetzer PE set just washed up on shore.  It's lodged between my bloated body and pectoral fin.  Oh goodie, I guess I'll use it...