Tiger / Panther Main Gun Info needed: calling tigerman!

I don't know about the Panther ammo, but I'll tell you what I know about the Tiger ammo.
All the info is taken from " Germany's Tiger tanks : Tiger I & II combat tactics " by Thomas L. Jentz.
Types of ammo: Pzgr.39 , Pzgr.40 , Gr.39 HL , Pzgr.39/43 , Pzgr.40/43 and Sprgr.
Pzgr ( Panzergrenade ), Gr ( grenade) and Sprgr ( Sprenggrenade )
The Pzgr.39 was armor piercing, capped, ballistic capped with explosive filler and tracer.
The Pzgr.40 was High velocity, sub-caliber, tungsten core with tracer ( the Tiger only carried a few of these for use against heavy armor like Stalin tanks )
The Gr.39 HL ( HEAT ) was based on the hollow charge principle, it was less accurate and less destructive than the Pzgr.39. It was used against armor and soft targets.
The Pzgr.39/43 is like the Pzgr.39 but with a bigger charge, the same goes for the Pzgr.40/43.

Shell weight and Initial velocity:
Pzgr.39 10.2 kg 773 m/s
Pzgr.40 7.3 kg 930 m/s
Gr.39 HL 7.65 kg 600 m/s
Pzgr.39/40 10.2 kg 1000 m/s
Pzgr.40/43 7.3 kg 1130 m/s

Pzgr.39/40 and Pzgr.40/43 was for the Tiger II only.
Pzgr.39 and Pzgr.40 was for the Tiger I only.
Gr.39 HL and Sprgr. had a different length for Tiger I & II.

Tiger I could open fire at stationary enemy tanks at ranges up to 2500 m.
Tiger II could open fire at stationary enemy tanks at ranges up to 4000 m.

At 2000 m the Pzgr.39 could penetrate 84mm of armor at an angle 30 degrees.
The Pzgr.40 could penetrate 110mm of armor at this range, the Pzgr. 39/40 132mm and the Pzgr.40/43 152mm.

There is alot more details in the book,but it would take up alot of space in this thread.
Hope this answers some of your questions.

Monrad,
You forget to include the line drawings of the projectiles.
We need the research forum.

Yes I know...... I have posted in the book / reference thread to get the admins attention, I have even changed the title of the thread, and Richard has started a thread in Comunity assistance. But nothing happens.

im sorry im not Tigerman
but heres some links for the differnt tanks and has there Stats
Tiger 1 88mm KwK 36 L/56 http://www.achtungpanzer.com/tiger.htm
Tiger 2 88mm KwK 43 L/71 http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz5.htm
JagtTiger 128mm Pak 44(80) L/55 http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz12.htm
Panther 75mm KwK 42 L/70 http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz4.htm

Have a look at this, this is great stuff.
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/guns.html
http://w1.183.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/articles/gerafvtemp.html
Both sites have reference to this subject.

You've got some really great info Crockett from the other guys. Monrad covered The King Tiger and it's 88mm KwK L71 gun very well. Arguably the best anti-tank weapon of the war.

The Panther's 75mm KwK42 L70 gun was almost as good as the 88mm and more letha with ap rounds than the Tiger I's 88mm.

The gun fired three types of ammo:
PzGr.39/42 armor-piercing, ballistic capped (APBC)
PzGr.40/42 tungsten AP shell
and the SprGr high explosive round

Firing the PzGr.39/42 and 40/42 rounds at 1000m, the panther could penetrate 111mm and 149 mm of 30 degree armor, more than enough to defeat any Allied tank. Due to the excellent telesccpic sites, the Panther had a 97% chance of obtaining a hit from 1000m under normal combat conditions.

Aw Tigerman! No links to some great Panther site.
No seriously, thanks for all the great Tiger links you have provided. I hoped you had something great for this, I looked for a site with pictures of 88mm ammo but I couldn't find any. Do you have any Tigerman ???

Monrad, I'm quite technically challenged. LOL I wish I did have some links, but I get all my information from people in the forums. I just don't have as much time as I wish to skim the net. So sorry, I haven't got any. Maybe I should make a better effort. Jon's an endless supplier of links. It's a good thing he doesn't play golf. LOL

Thanks anyway. Guess we can't have it all.
I just need to search a bit myself.

In my search for ammo pics I found this. There are no pics of the ammo but there is a drawing and some nice penetration statistics.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger2.htm

You guys rock! thanks

Crockett

Oh you want Photos of 88 shells?
you should have said

Im waiting Captain Caveman.

heres some ive found from a bloke called Matt
From left to right: 7,5cm Pzgr. 39/42 Patr. (Kw.K.42- Panther), 7,5cm Sprgr. 42 (Kw.K.42), 8,8cm Sprgr. Patr. L/4,5 Stg (Flak 18/Kw.K. 36), 8,8cm Pzgr. Patr. 39/1 (Flak 18/Kw.K. 36), 8,8cm Pzgr. Patr. 39/43 (Kw.K. 43), 8,8cm Gr. 39 Hl. (Kw.K. 36), 8,8cm Pzgr. Patr. 39 (actual Kw.K. 36 case), 8,8cm Sprgr. Patr. L/4,5 Pr.zugz. (Flak 18/Kw.K. 36), 12,8cm Pzgr. 43 (Pak 44)

Thanks Captain Caveman. Do you have a link to a site with info about the ammo and some pics????

thats all i could find, there are more on my favorites list but i have to open them first to find them, i should have named them when i saved them

monrad, thanks for the links. they are awsome!! lots of info