Paint under zim?

I think that this would depend on where the zim was applied. If straight from the factory then it would be over red oxide primer, but if applied in the field it would go over the existing paint finish.
I am not an expert on German armour but looking for tips and advice as I have just got the Academy mid Tiger.
Hope this helps.

Check out the link in my posting "another zimmerit dilemma". Captain caveman has some excellent pics (In B/W though), but you should be able to tell from the shading what the base color is under the broken zim-hope this helps

Standing by with the gas can.......I'll let someone else wade into this one.

BTW, what colour matches red oxide primer? Preferably acrylic.

Matt

heres the site Crokets referring to, there’s a recipe and how to apply links on it
http://www.panzerdiesel.com/data/e/270.html?PHPSESSID=17eb88095ad657e47ae6049924feffad


Peridexion don’t let them get to you, you have helped loads of people on here (including myself), and are a valuable part of the boards. Ive had the same thing happen to me in the past

Matt,

Here's what the Missing Links article on acurizing the Academy Tiger I Early says about paints (sorry, enamel):

QUOTE: However, I find that Humbrol 108, 87 and 70 are reasonable out-of-the-tin matches for the likely original colours of the interior cream, lower hull grey and red primer which I've seen.

I think 87 is the red color. It is kind of mauvish in the can, but dries to a nice red primer color. Hope this helps.

Daveash points out the crux of the matter here. It depends on when and where the Zimmerit was applied. On a new vehicle, it was applied directly over the red oxide primer, (don't make me pull out the book), as seen in these paint chips from a late model Panther A at Saumur;



If the chipping was only shallow, it might only expose the color of the Zimmerit itself, or if it was a deep gouge, it might go through the primer and expose bare metal, both of which can be seen here;



This only covers two scenarios. Since the order to switch to Dark Yellow base color was issued on February 18th, 1943, many vehicles could have been painted Panzer gray, like early Tigers and then sent back to the factory for a rebuild and Zimmerit application, which obviously would be over Panzer Gray, with the red oxide primer still underneath. You could also have Dark Yellow painted vehicles returned for overhaul which would have Zimmerit applied over their Dark Yellow or even camouflage paint. Then there are field applications, which would carry the same types of variations as the factory rebuilds. The Zimmerit might not stick as well to the Dark Yellow or Panzer Gray paint, as compared to it's application over primer. This might account for edog seeing light colored paint underneath chipped Zimmerit, especially on a field applied case.

Peridexion, Smokie the Bear wants to talk to you about your penchant for adding fuel to fires. Remember, he has claws too!

If you got an opinion voice it. We have had some very interesting differences of opinion in these forums, but to the best of my knowledge none have come to blows. Many of us benefited from what we learned and even the 'antagonists' (for want of a better word) didn't hold any grudges. A healthy debate is a sign of a working mind.....Doh!

QUOTE: Originally posted by edog I am looking to build a knocked out Tiger 1 that has been hit in the engine compartment so the damage will not be too extensive. All the photos that I have seen have a lighter color where the zim has been worn off.

That would be a very light grey color. It's not the color of the paint underneath. It's what happened to zimmerit when it was violently removed by concussion. When it was abraded, it turned a whitish grey. I have several very good pictures of Wiking panthers that experienced the same kind of damage to their zimmerit when it was torn off by a shell or by the concussion to the immediate area.

Speaking more generally, the crews tried whenever possible to touch up the tanks with dunkelgelb when they were scratched or the zimm came off. I know it makes for a more boring color scheme, but it's probably a better reflection of battlefield realities.

Petbat, I am not an established author and this is why I quote book titles, authors, ISBNs and even page numbers, in order that others may check the veracity of my statements. If people don't trust the accuracy of the texts that I'm quoting from, then they should quote something to the contrary from a verifiable source, unless these people are on the order of Walter Spielberger, Hilary Doyle or Steven Zaloga. If you are just arguing without any stated references, why should I or anyone else respect your opinion? Especially if you can't tell the difference between scanning lines and Zimmerit. I'm not an expert, but I do back-up my statements with verifiable references. Is this too much to ask of others?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion Petbat, I am not an established author and this is why I quote book titles, authors, ISBNs and even page numbers, in order that others may check the veracity of my statements. If people don't trust the accuracy of the texts that I'm quoting from, then they should quote something to the contrary from a verifiable source, unless these people are on the order of Walter Spielberger, Hilary Doyle or Steven Zaloga. If you are just arguing without any stated references, why should I or anyone else respect your opinion? Especially if you can't tell the difference between scanning lines and Zimmerit. I'm not an expert, but I do back-up my statements with verifiable references. Is this too much to ask of others?

Dude, calm down. You've been lampooned here because you take yourself way too seriously. This is not one of the great issues of our day.

Well excuse me for being serious. At least I don't jerk people around just to see how much I can p-ss them off.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion Well excuse me for being serious. At least I don't jerk people around just to see how much I can p-ss them off.

I am not jerking you around. I am teasing you to suggest that you might be taking this a leetle too seriously. From the tone of your posts when other people post alternate positions, that's pretty clear.

Tell me, how old are you? I don't ask to be condescending. I want to see if I'm being too hard on you.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion Well excuse me for being serious. At least I don't jerk people around just to see how much I can p-ss them off.

If I post a serious question then I expect a serious answer. I have only seen serious answers from you, thanks.
As for the red oxide color, well I posted a question about this in the painting forum, and got an interesting answer from andytee. Here is a link have a look. BTW andytee deleted all his answers but he has posted them again at the end of the thread so just scroll down to the bottom.
http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18316

Thanks for all the posts guys.

check out this link edog http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=110741&messageid=1081337612 granted this is just a model , but as you can see he is pretty good at his craft , just an idea to ponder !

Thanks Spector. I have seen that model on the Missing Lynks forum. He is really a skilled builder. Actually I have read somewhere that Panthers had methods of applications of the zim depending on what factory they came from. I know at least one factory applied the zim to the hull before paint, and I think the others painted first.

As far as my build, am planning on doing the Academy Mid Tiger with interior. As the plan goes now, the kit will represent a Tiger hit in the engine compartment, so the resulting fire will not be very serious, but a lot of the zim will be knocked off around the projectiles entry hole. Of course most of the hatches will have to remain open from the crew that hastily abandoned the tank, and I am thinking about having one of the engine panels blown open. Anyway that is the plan, but I have found my plans are always subject to change.

As far as the paint where the zim has been knocked off, I think I am going to go with a light yellowish gray. The inspiration for this project comes from a picture of a tank knocked out around the Villers-Bocage area. I have the mid Tiger kit, so the diorama will probably be set in Russia.

Once again, thanks for everyone’s input. Once I get my workbench cleared off, and get started on this project, I will try to keep you all updated with plenty of pics.

Sound like a good subject , they had Mid tigers in the west aswell so it dosnt have to be set in Russia

Keep us posted

My standing, is that 'Zimmerit' never existed, it is just a plot by Moldavian Spys to get us to argue about and fight, and destroy ourselves, thus removing many unneed hobbyists, and destroying much of east europes modeling industry, so they can take over Canada!

ok

sorry

none of that is true, but I do love making evil schemes like that lol
that was my 2 cents