Scratchbuilding Pz IV Turret Interior

Matt,
well, first, let me add to your references -
here is first page (of 4 or 5) from afv interiors
(links to continue on are on bottom of this page)
http://afvinteriors.hobbyvista.com/pz4/pz4a.html

next, as an inexperienced scratchbuilder how has once or
twice bitten off more than he can chew, let me make a few suggestions:
1) start w/ the basic & simple stuff.
some kind of storage container, rectangular looking box, etc.
think about what level of detail you want to do before you start.
if this is your first time, you might want to leave out a rivet or two.
if the observer can only see through the open hatch,
he is unlikely to notice that some of the detail (which cannot be seen)
is missing.

(this is strictly your call. some folks 'wire' the backs of 1/72 control panels
in airplane cockpits, then seal them up, never to be seen again.
if that makes you happy - let 'er rip! otherwise start w/ basic shapes, then improve on them)

2) make patterns using 3x5 card paper and figure out what shaped it will take
to create a 3D object like the one you are making.
when you get it right, you can apply it to styrene.

3) this should be #1, but if you have followd 1 & 2 you are still ok)
NEVER EVER permantly affix any thing to the model until it is complete,
and you are satisfied.
imagine my dismay as i spent who knows how much time and how many attempts
trying to make little propellers for the 1/32 Stuka dive sirens that were already CA'd
to the wheel pants !!!
eventually i got it, but mostly because i HAD to!


there is much more, but i am not an expert.
start small, proceed carefully, DO NOT glue yourself into a corner.
:-)
and have fun!
when you are not having fune, it is time for a break.
if you continue not to have fun, it is time to rethink the scope of your project.

good luck,
keep us posted.

Thanks for the help. One thing I like about the second link of mine is it is specific to the H/J model, which I have the Academy, and the afvinteriors link is great. I was thinking simple, trust me, maybe the seats, etc. The sides of the turret and the top are open, so I would have to see what can be seen and what can be omitted. Also, would a small block V-8 from a car model look decent as the engine. The engine compartment has the grills, but I don't want to leave them empty either...

Call up Tank Workshop and order an interior set and save yourself the agravation....

Thats my advice.... Having scratchbuilt ONE full interior (Late Tiger I E ) I won't do it again... People who do this either have something to prove or way to much time on there hands...

If your hell-bent on doing it then Ed is on the money... Also if you don't already have it then get Shep Paine's armor book it has some useful (Though somwhat dated) techniques for scratchbuilding...

Thanks for the info... but the interior w/engine is a bit pricey... and I just want basic stuff I suppose, I'm not doing a cut-away or anything like that, just want accurate stuff inside the turret. I'm not looking to reproduce the radio set or the instrument panel for the driver (which I DID find photos for, thanks Ed!), but if the hatches are open I don't want empty space greeting the eyes...

i believe Shep is also the father of 'gizmology'
which simplified means:
it does not have to be 100% accurate if it looks like it belongs there.
:-)
(and i agree)

Ed,

I hear you... years ago in my building heyday (I've been out of it for the better part of 15 years) I loved gizmology. Especially in aircraft...so I found a couple of 3D drawings with some basic shapes, and I'll probably build some 75mm ammo storage racks, and the loader, gunner and commander's seats, but that's about all I think. From the ref photos I've seen,the interiors look to be either white or a buff color, not gray (Hey, I'm in the Navy and everything in the Navy is gray....). Does this seem correct? Thanks

I understand....

German Interiors were Buff for the most part.... Exceptions being...the floor, which seemed to be primer red brown, Inner faces of hatches were either camo color or primer. Others will have more info on this. The Osprey book on the Pz IV has a nice color plate that shows the general color layout...

Interior of Panzer IV was first painted RAL 8012 the Brown-Red primer, but the interior was always overpainted. The RAL 1001 Elfenbein (Ivory or Buff ) was painted basically from the side of the hull upwards. The standard RAL 7009 Grey-Green was painted on the floors, transmission housing, brake units, etc.

Even with the side hatches open you will not see a lot inside the vehicle. The kit has a rudimentary breech and spent case bucket hasn't it? All you will need to do is add a little detail to that, make a floor (a piece of plastic card with a disk for the turret floor scribed in it will suffice, the 3 support arms for the floor to the turret ring, a seat for the commander, some periscope detail inside the cupola and a bit of wire for visible cabling is all you really need. See this pic from missing-lynx. This is of a destroyed panzer IV and a lot more is visible here.


There are some other excellent pics on that page, but I can't seem to get the link right. Do a google image search for mignuke-14 and you will be able to access the others.

As to the engine, unless you plan to open the hatch doors you will not see anything after the hull is glued on; unless you leave the holes under the hull and under the sponsons open. Just glue a shallow box (inside painted black) under the grill openings and it will be fine.

Using a side cutaway provided by afvinteriors website, here are the first three photos of the in progress (EARLY stages) of the scratchbuilding.

Ed, Kenneth,

Thanks for the info.

Peter,

The shallow box was my final idea for the engine and aux engine.... and thanks for the info on the turret, yes, there won't be much to see, but hey, I'm a flyboy, this is my first armor kit, and I want to do something I've never done before.

I don't care what they say about treadheads, you guys rock...


This will be painted the right color later, the floor for the driver and radio operator hatches.


A very rudimentary pair of boxes to give some depth to the driver and radio operator compartments.


Here's the turret with the floor. I'm going to add the three seats and some modeling clay for seat cushions (to give some depth) of just plain sheet styrene.

Thanks again for all your help folks!!

Matt,
it looks like your turret floor piece is larger diameter
than the one in the piture Peter put up.

Also:
i was not going to bring this up before, as it looked like you were
done painting, but if you are going to go 'all out'
(well not ALL out, but above & beyond)
you should probably fill the extra holes in the hull and fill
the open sponsons (i think that kit has those too).

the holes were for Tamiya's old motorization set up.
i filled my by covering them w/ styrene card or strip on the inside,
then plugging the holes w/ scrap styrene & CA.
i didn't say anything before, because the hull was painted.

the sponsons (if you put the top of the hull on the bottom part,
and then look at it from the bottom, you will see the big missing areas.
normally, you can not look thru a Pz IV !! :-)
i fixed mine w/ styrene sheet,
and i think there are some pics posted in the PZ IV group build.
yours might be trickier as you are adding interior.
you won't be able to just toss in a big piece.

also, the holes in the side of the lower hull at about midway should be filled as well.

but then you will have to either repaint or touch up.
your call, of course.

thanks for the progress pics, keep them coming!

Ed,

Fixed the turret as you can see here:



Also, the holes in the bottom of the lower hull I fixed last night by putting styrene on the inside of the hull and used putty to fill in the four holes on the bottom. I also test fitted stryene strips to cover the gaps running the entire length of the hull where the two halves meet. Using one small strip horizontally and one strip vertically. It probably wasn't too comforting for a real Panzer crew if those things didn't meet up.. Also, the interior isn't getting too dressed up, since there's not much to see when the upper hull is on... Thanks for all the help.

Matt,
that looks better. the 'struts' now have more of a bend in them.

you will have to watch the putty for shrinkage.
i tried it that way once and the putty kept making a little valley.

don't forget the holes in the sides of the lower hull.
:-)

sounds like you are doing a good job.
keep it up!

Don't ya just love a guy that uses his aircraft spares box for extra detail on an AFV. Don't forget to put the squished, bent prop under the tracks Matt!!

We armour guys are a strange breed, often seen poking fun at each other, but we never throw rocks - just a good humoured insult once in a while. We do not take ourselves as serious as some of the airceraft guys. Just remember though, if you build a tank you touch the Darkside and from there it is a state of no return.

Have fun withthe rest of the build. You need more info, just ask .

Peter,

Yeah, the "spares" are from my 1/48 Monogram EA-6B that my four year old wanted to test the aerodynamics on... from my third story balcony... Oh, well, live and learn. The last time I built anything was when I was still in high school in 1989.... But now I'm back and I want to show this little puppy off... as for the "ribbing" I don't sweat it. Can't do 15 years in the US Navy without having a pretty thick skin.

Here's the latest on the cockpit...er turret interior

Matt, Ok now.. just because I advised against this doesn't mean I am not gunning for you!! I am really looking forward to seeing this progress... Good Luck!!!

I found this stuff at Wal Mart... It's used as tacky material to hang posters, etc.. I've also found that if you press an aircraft instrument panel into it, you can get a fairly realistic looking radio for a tank (see left of picture). I also used it for the two bags on the left. It takes paint (MM Acrylics) very well and hardens with paint. Just my little bit of frugality in scratchbuilding this thing...I think a pack of 10 2" by 1/2" strips was under $1.50...

I've finished with the interior, with the exception of a pair of pistols by the hatches at the rear of the turret. I realize that most of this won't even been seen, but it sure was fun doing it....

Imagine going from this:



to this:



without buying anything aftermarket...I'm going to get Tamiya's German Infantry Weapons Set and use the two pistols, and probably the MGs for the turret coax gun and the MG in the driver compartment....

Matt, you're doing a great job on your scratch built interior! I think wildwilliam, had some very good points on approaching a task such as you've taken on in trying to keep it simple when most of it won't be visible. look forward to seeing more of your project, it really does look great. semper fi, mike

Matt,
very nice work, and a great tip w/ the poster tack/putty.
the first thought i had was 'but it will never harden',
but i guess it does.

i think you have done a very good job capturing the look of the interior.
especially w/ the scracthbuild 'on the cheap' approach.

Mike,
thanks for the kind words.
i just did not want him to get too ambitious on his first 'project'
and get discourged or frustrated and quit.
(although on an interior, i just you could just throw in the towel and glue the hatches shut!)
i learned the error of my ways as i was making my 6th (or so) attempt
to carve a 1/32 Stuka siren prop out of a piece of sprue w/ an X-Acto and a file !!
and all i could think was
"how did i ever get myself into this, and how will i ever get out!?!"

looks like Matt's first wen much smoother!
congrats, and keep those pics coming as you finish it up.

Matt, Great tip.... Whooda thunk it! Great Job...

Looks great. Can't wait to see the final product.