Ferdinand Paint Job

I didn't think the campaign lasted until November.......July-August more likely.

That paragraph shows that the crews knew they needed some sort of close-in defense and is reflected by the on-field modifications they made.

i mean to say vulnerabilities, not invulnerabilities....

"On the first days of action, Ferdinands were disaster due to the technical problems (few were lost because of the fuel line fires), the lack of adequate support and the most important the lack of a self-defense weapon. Many Ferdinands were destroyed either by their crews after being immobilized (by combat damage or mechanical problem) or by Soviet infantry and artillery as well as by SU-152 "Zwieroboj" heavy mechanised guns. It was recorded that some Ferdinand's crews (ex. Major Noak's crew) used to fire their 7.92mm MG34 machine guns through the barrel of main 88mm gun while others mounted their 7.92mm MG34 underneath the gun, in order to fire at the enemy infantry units. Temporary field-made solution was the rear mounted platform for Panzergrenadiers, but it only resulted in heavy casualties among them. During the Kursk offensive until November of 1943, Ferdinands from sPzJagAbt 653 destroyed some 320 Soviet tanks and lost 13 Ferdinands, while entire 656 sPanzerjager Regiment destroyed some 502 Soviet tanks and 100 other vehicles. Ferdinands proved to be very effective when employed behind the lines." (Achtung Panzer)

looking at the model ready to be painted, i stare at it, and its surely a real beast prolly really frightening on the battlefield. no defense purposes is certainly a design flaw, cause actually seeing it 3D shows the invulnerabilities to it.

It's interesting to see how things change in the fortunes of war in the way vehicles are equipped...the addition of close-in support or co-axial MGs on platforms that previously didn't have them (who cares about that unless you are on defence?) and the same for the addition of AA MGs on cupolas (you only need AA defence when you've lost air superiority...).

Same is true on the Allied side with aircraft paint schemes as the war progressed.

True John, that's why most enthusiasts say the lack of a hull machine gun was it's major fault.

I have also spotted some pics of Ferdinands with web camo, same colors.

About the vehicle itself, I am not sure how the Germans deployed it, but I know that it didn't have great visibility. It had many blind spots making it very easy to get snuck up on by russian Infantry.

Interesting to think if the German's from late 42 on had focused all of their industrial output on Panthers and quit all the Pz III and IV's and other heavy tank projects. Sorry for straying O.T.

tigerman,

That seems to happen a lot with certain vehicle platforms in that time period. The ability to strike at over 2 km while being impervious to return fire would seem to make it more of a stand-off weapon instead of a blunt instrument. Even when misused it still racked up an impressive score. We can always wonder about what might have been had the Germans shown more foresight in their overall vehicle planning and design on many levels just like the case of the Ferdinand...that's what makes the study of history so fascinating.

I believe the big knock on the Ferdinand at Kursk was not the lack of machine gun or slow speed, but rather how it was deployed. It was better suited for open warfare where it's gun could fire from long distances, while itself being inpenetrable from enemy fire. At Kursk the Germans used it as a battering ram and the supporting Pz. IV's were picked off leaving the Ferdinands defenseless on the flanks. Easy picking for Russian infantry.

ive read that it suffered problems in defense mainly from infantry close quarters, i can only imagine what would have happened if the improved ferdinande epuiped with the machine gun in the front "the elefant" rolled into kursk instead. im kinda shcoked that the original planners never equipped the ferdinand with one, it just seems like there was no common sense there. but hind sight is 20/20, as a history major and soon to be teacher i wish i could know what the designers were thinking.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion The Ferdinand's performance at Kursk was at best disappointing, and indeed they suffered heavy losses, but they were by no means ineffective nor were they wiped out. By July 27th, 1943, Schwere Panzerjager Regiment 656, which had all 89 Ferdinands, had accounted for 502 destroyed Soviet tanks, 100 artillery pieces and 20 anti-tank guns, all for the loss of 39 Ferdinands. Not a bad kill ratio for any weapon system, let alone one so maligned as the Ferdinand. Here is a link with 6 Ferdinand paint schemes, along with virtually every other German vehicle; http://bsdi.usppp.com/wwiiscalemodels/schemes/panzertarnung.html Green blobs it is then; Just think if the Germans had a 1000 at Kursk! May have tipped the battle. That's one very good kill ratio.

Peridexion what a great sight, i have to save that link, thanks alot, it will come in handy for many other German armor that i plan on doing, thanks.

I've always used the MM Dunkelgelb as the basecoat for '43 onwards on the understanding that the Sandgelb was a lighter shade used only by the DAK in N. Africa. Either one would work though as a contrast with the Olivgrun for camo purposes.

i decided that im going with the two tone scheme, i guess now its the Sandgelb and blotches of Olivegrun. Thats what the plan has been, i wasnt entirely sure of the base coat, cause the directions told me to use model master wood.

The Ferdinand's performance at Kursk was at best disappointing, and indeed they suffered heavy losses, but they were by no means ineffective nor were they wiped out. By July 27th, 1943, Schwere Panzerjager Regiment 656, which had all 89 Ferdinands, had accounted for 502 destroyed Soviet tanks, 100 artillery pieces and 20 anti-tank guns, all for the loss of 39 Ferdinands. Not a bad kill ratio for any weapon system, let alone one so maligned as the Ferdinand.
Here is a link with 6 Ferdinand paint schemes, along with virtually every other German vehicle;
http://bsdi.usppp.com/wwiiscalemodels/schemes/panzertarnung.html

Green blobs it is then;

Hey armorchris,

Well, nearly every Ferdinand in the German inventory was sent to the Eastern Front just prior to the Battle of Kursk. Almost all of them were destroyed or captured in the battle. Those that survived, were upgraded into Elefants before redeployment. Although the official order for three-color camo was issued in February 1943, many units did not adopt the practice until late summer. Additionally, the order gave local commanders the widest latitude to customize vehicle paint schemes for the local terrain. Therefore there was a great diversity of paint schemes on German armor in 1943 Russia.

Based on this, your base color will be an overall coat of MM Sandgelb RLM 79. You could leave the vehicle like this (weathered of course), go to a two-color camo scheme, or go all the way to a three-color scheme. It really depends on the unit you are depicting with your model.

If you go with two-color, use olive green over the yellow in either stripes or blotches in various designs. MM Panzer Olivgrun 1943 is the paint of choice here and doesn't look too bad as is for 1/35 scale. If you build 1/72, you might want to lighten it a bit.

Finally, if you go with a three-color scheme, MM Schokoladenbraun '43 is the color that they claim is the proper third color. I've found that this color is quite dark and usually lighten it in varying amounts depending on the model. Many modelers have stated that they use slightly darkened MM Leather, darkened MM Rust, or other combinations of colors for their version of the right "red brown RAL 8017".

I hope this helps out, but don't hesitate to ask additional questions if you want.

Enjoy your modeling...