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German Camo, theres so many!?

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:40 PM
German cammo was certainally anything but boring. My personal favorite was the ambush scheme and there were many different varieties of it.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:28 PM
That's one of the beauties (IMHO, others may claim headaches!) of building German AFV by period. You have four basic choices: Early War period through 1942 with Dark/Panzer Gray (can be varied with whitewash for a winter '41 or '42 look), 1943 onward Dunkelgelb (dark yellow) mono scheme, 1943 onward Dunkelgelb base with either green two tone or green and dark brown/red brown three tone, or 1944 onward ambush pattern as described above. Of course, you can also let your creativity run wild with the actual patterns and schemes as many early model vehicles were still soldiering on later in the war. So much leeway was given to local commanders in terms of patterns that pretty much anything goes!

Probably one of the most challenging things beyond just doing the color choices is to find a particular vehicle with reference photos and try to replicate it as close as possible. It can be alternatingly frustrating and rewarding all at the same time. Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 4:28 PM
Try this site it may help you see what camo matched with what afv
http://bsdi.usppp.com/wwiiscalemodels/schemes/panzertarnung.html
i have found it helps.
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 3:21 PM
thanks, i will check my copies and see if they have the corrections
before you go thru that.
i assume (ho, ho) they were incorporated into the later printings?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:34 PM
The link for the corrections to Panzer Colors was : http://www.geocities.com/Baja/1654/errors.html
I just checked it and the link was dead. A search on Google for the title of the article also came up dead. Sorry. I have to leave for the rest of the week, but if there is enough interest, I'll scan all 8 pages and post them in the Reference Forum when I get back.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:21 PM
QUOTE: hopefully, some of the more knowledgeable folks will weigh in.
but the 'problem' w/ German WWII AFV camo comes from the fact
that unlike the Luftwaffe camo that was applied at the factory to
a fixed pattern, the camo for AFV's was field applied by the crew.

so in general, they started w/ a vehicle that was most likely
dunkelgelb (dark yellow) and were given cans of dark green or dark red
(or both) paint concentrate. they would then apply this, sometimes straight (!),
sometimes thinned w/ water, gasoline, diesel fuel or whatever,
using paintbrushes, rags, mops, brooms or whatever.

*snip*

I don't know as I am more knowledgable but here's my My 2 cents [2c].
When orders came down regarding new camo they only included the colors to be used, not specific patterns/ratios of those colors. It was left to the commander in the feild to decide the best pattern for the area where he was fighting.
Front line troops would apply "feild expedient" paint jobs using brushes, mops etc. but those in the rear with the gear would do it like this:

It appears they painted right over the tools, cables and other stowage.
The only pattern (to my knowledge) that was applied at the factory was "Ambush" as shown in Peridixion's sig and below on my King Tiger.


HTH

P.S. I read somewhere that the Panther, Tiger and King Tiger all had on-board air compressors with an air fitting at the rear of the hull and that it could be used to hook up paint sprayers and other tools.
Please note that I read this on ONE site and have found NO other evidance, written or photographic, of this. If anyone can positivly confirm or deny this please do so.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 1:59 PM
It's really pretty complicated, Awasoda. Despite the reputation of Teutonic efficiency, the Germans did everything relating to armor in an overly-complicated way. The suggestions that you get some basic books are good ones.

The Germans started the war with dark grey tanks. This was generally not good. What was good was the way that dust would coat the tanks, and break up the sharp dark silhouette they had on the battlefield.

When they sent tanks to the desert, they actually painted them a light brownish color. Between this experience and the better protection of the dust, they realized that tanks were probably better off with at least some light brown or tan on them. At first, this was sent out as a color and painted ovver the grey, in patterns of various kinds. This was largely up to the units or even the individual vehicles. They put patterns on the tank in an attempt to break up the silhouette of the vehicle, so it was a bit harder to see at distance.

Later the tanks started coming out of the factory in the tan ("dark yellow") color. They would go to the front that way and the tank units were provided with green and or brown to put over the tank in waves or blotches. Ideally the tank units were to get both the dark green and the dark brown. Earlier, the green or brown were applied in squiggly lines, but as the war wore on solid blotches of color seem to have become more popular, but you see both right up to the end of the war. Sometimes the colors were applied in the factory, though. Henschel did this, and many of the Tiger IIs were painted with a standard three color scheme in the factory. This often included little V shapes painted over the solid blotches. This is called ambush scheme.

Finally, as stocks of paint wore out, they replaced the dark brown with the red primer coat (if you get my drift), and provides more limited amounts of dark yellow and green to put over it in patterns. Some very late war tanks are almost all red primer, with just a little yellow and green.

In the last gasps, they painted the tanks in whatever colors they had, including old stocks of panzer grey. Then, thankfully, they lost, and didn't have to worry about painting tanks any more.

This is a huge simplification. One thing to keep in mind is that the patterns were often applied at the front, not in the factory, so they would sometimes be crude brush strokes, sometimes well-applied airbrush patterns, and sometimes very peculiar patterns indeed. The books will bear this out. The absolute best thing is to get a photo of an actual tank and use that as your guide -- the limitation being, of course, that the photos are alomst all black and white!
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:40 PM
do you have a link for the online corretions?
i am not sure what editions of those books i have.
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 12:39 PM
do you have a link for the online corretions?
i am not sure what editions of those books i have.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:51 AM
The 3 volume set Panzer Colors by Bruce Culver, Squadron/Signal Publications, is a good place to start. The first editions have several errors, but since a on-line correction sheet has been available, these errors should now have been corrected in the second edition. Too much information is available on this topic to cover it all here.
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:07 AM
hopefully, some of the more knowledgeable folks will weigh in.
but the 'problem' w/ German WWII AFV camo comes from the fact
that unlike the Luftwaffe camo that was applied at the factory to
a fixed pattern, the camo for AFV's was field applied by the crew.

so in general, they started w/ a vehicle that was most likely
dunkelgelb (dark yellow) and were given cans of dark green or dark red
(or both) paint concentrate. they would then apply this, sometimes straight (!),
sometimes thinned w/ water, gasoline, diesel fuel or whatever,
using paintbrushes, rags, mops, brooms or whatever.

so while there are certain 'styles', there are few established 'patterns'.
on type that is popular is 'ambush'
green & red blobs over yellow base w/ either yellow or white
dots, blobs or leaves over top.

this page has some nice profiles for many vehicles & patterns.
you can click on each to get a bigger view.
http://bsdi.usppp.com/wwiiscalemodels/schemes/panzertarnung.html

this should get you started.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: USA
German Camo, theres so many!?
Posted by Awasoda on Tuesday, July 27, 2004 10:35 AM
Could someone please explain the different names of the german camo and also what each type was used for. Thanks
IF you can't beat them then they are not tied down properly
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