Friends and Foes

Have to admit, you're kind of helpless if a P-47 or Typhoon is coming in with a few rockets under their wings. Fortunately for your grandfather Loylein, they may have expended theirs already.

I so remember my grandfather telling a story about when he was in eastern europe, the were being raided by P-47's. The story of the mustang brings back some of the memories. He said the "jugs" were dive bombing them from about 1000 feet. One of the tanks in another battalion took a direct hit in the turret. He said it was amazing how big the explosion was. The tank had just been fully loaded and was full of petrol and fresh ammo. They all went off. He said that they would try firing .50's at them but they just bounced off. He said it sounded like hail hitting the turret.

Great story Jeff and you're right, he was as brave. They all were.

My grandfather flew Mustangs during the war. I dont remember to much, he died when I was young, but he did tell me stories that I remember. He had great respect for the Tiger, telling me a few times on certain missions he was flying in the ground attack role he passed them up, because earlier he learned that besides dropping a 500lbs pound bomb with pinpoint accuracy he couldnt do much against them. He said once on one of those missions he decided to give a Tiger a go and was suprised to watch his .50 tracers bunch off the hull and fly up in the air.
My Grandfather was a great man too, couragious as your grandfather, I bet they woulda had a wonderful time talking. I am glad you put this here my friend as mature adults and mature youngsters, this stuff we model and this brings us a bit closer to what we love. this isn't politics here, just a time and a place. thats all.

-Jeff

Correction to rank...SS-Obersturmfuhrer,,,,,,,Sorry had to get the patch out to verify

Tigerman
from my recollection, his tiger was hit my arty fire while they "were cought napping" and transffered back to Dusseldorf about mid '43. He then was transferred to Eastern front, given new Tiger and made Oberleutnant, His crew was credited with 4 kills in Afrika. Two of his crew members were killed that day and he was injured from shrapnel in leg.

It's something that your grandfather made it out of Afrika without being captured like the 250,000.

Please pass on your knowledge, so we all may learn.

I wish my Grandfathers had left anything other than "You don't need to know...."

jim i cant think of a better tribute to your grandfather. i am not going to venture an opinion on a suitable kit but i will say i know there are some out there. i look forward to your build.

joe

Loylein, thank you for your willingness to share your grandfathers stories of long ago. It's probably fair to say that we all in one way or another have been impacted by the events of 60yrs. ago. It is always gratifying to hear the stories of the men and women who actually lived through those very terrible times. I to believe that many on both sides fought for the honor and duty to protect those they loved. Sadly the politics of the time as has historically been the case in most conflicts between man were for all the wrong causes. I try to refrain from these kinds of comments but yours is well thought out and deserves acknowledgement. semper fi, mike

Well since there is so much interest in the stories, I guess I should start somewhere.
I am thinking about doing the TIGER 1 Early since this is the panzer that my grandpapa
started with in afrika. He was assigned in Tunisia and saw a lot of action, I am not sure about all the details in his early tank years as to where and to whom he was assigned.
I know through the years he had recieved many awards, the most distinguished being the Knight cross. I know that at the end of the war he was assigned to the 6 panzer battallion. I believe SS but not 100% sure.

Any ideas on a good kit for early production Tiger I would appreciate the help. I am also looking for aftermarket stuff too.

The Germans were painted as evil and bad, however no where near the extent the Japanese were. Since most americans at that time could trace their hertiage to europe or there abouts, the people on the other side of the gun were just like us. To this day i have neighbors who are both us vets and german vets. They live side by side and are good friends. Perhaps time does heal wounds.

bill

jim may i suggest you have one. right here.

joe

I guess I need to come up with a site where I can put the stories. I might need some help. I really didn't think I would get this much response to the sounds of a rambling german boy. LOL....Jim

I've read quite a few memoirs of front line soldiers from both sides. To a man, they all we're fighting for the guy next to them, not politics. They all complained about the conditions and they all just wanted to get home.
Almost every German memoir includes accounts of being treated as Liberators by Russians. Some were involved with taking time to bury church bells and the like during the retreat to be recovered by the villagers at a later date.
Most believed they were fighting for Europe against Russia. Quite a few were also told in POW camps that they would soon be fighting with the Americans against Stalin. I believe Otto Carius thought he was to help train tankers and was upset that it never happened.
It must be difficult as a Country to come to terms with a past that is so recent, but you have an invaluable source in your Grossvater, it's important for him and you that talk about it.
My mother in law's father came from a family of five brothers. He was killed in Brest as a US infantryman. She visited one uncle in New Jersey as a POW. Another uncle died in a camp as a political prisoner. The others served in the Wehrmacht.

I for one would love to hear what the conditions were in a Tiger, bits of info technical manuals can't give: the feel, sounds and smells of sitting inside one of those beasts.
Some books eluded to this, Otto Carius frost bite from falling asleep against the turret wall, another using the muzzle-break cover as a latrine, tankers washing their clothes in gasoline and so forth.
Any info like this would be a pure gem, please feel free to post or email.

Thanks one and all for the responses. I will be sure to right some of t he stories.

loylein wow didnt expect a thread like this. no apology was necessary. war makes friends to enemies. and peace makes enemies to friends. you see i am third generation american. my relatives on my mothers side were from frankfurt. they fought in ww2 on the axis side. i have others that fought in the eto on the allied side. war is war, and like the others have said it is long since over. your grandfather must have had some fantastic stories, i hope you will share them. something you might do is to build some of the equiment he was attached to. it proves to be a great way to understand the veteran more.

i look forward to hearing his stories and to seeing your work.

joe

loylein, there are different ways to handle the past, we do tank modelling and so we get information about this time and about the people. I think this is much better than people who ignore it.
Think everone here is interessted in your stories so post it here.

www.boorad.de

As my dad said,"We did what we had to do."Most Germans did what they thought was right and was doing there job weather it was right or wrong.My dad loved the German poeple and never blamed them for what happen.He also married a fine German woman,my mom.Common poeple don't blame others just those in power who gives the orders.So Loylien if you want e-mail.Digger

Dwight and Duke are right, it was many years ago and wounds do and can heal. You can email me by clicking on the email icon in my post. Thanks.

QUOTE: Originally posted by loylein Hey tigerman, send me your e-mail address and I will be sure to tell you some of the stories.

loylein, you grandfather did wehat he thought was right at the time. Now that many years have past, it may be tough to do but we must all move on. Many veterans who fought against each other in that war eventually met afterwards and are now friends. If they can do it, then they offer a lesson to us all.

I too would love to hear some of those stories. My E-mail is in my post. Feel free to forward any stories to me as well.

Hey tigerman,
send me your e-mail address and I will be sure to tell you some of the stories.

loylein,

It's all in the past. Many veterans (from both sides) who fought in the war did so because they were told or made to believe that they are doing it for the good of their country and were not really cruel or sadistic men (although history tells us that there were many also who were such) who take pleasure in killing. They did what they thought was right at that time and specific circumstance. From what I have read, many who fought the war hated the war. They were honorable men in their own rights (except of course who don't deserve to be honored.)

As Tigerman said, many who lost relatives may find it hard to accept...but there is nothing much that we can do about it except accept the fact that the war did happen. We have to learn from it and move on. Further hatred will bring us nowhere.

Hopefully Loylein, many of us can put the war behind us and move forward. Today our countries are at peace. This may be harder for some members who lost relatives in the war, I'm not sure. All I can say is that your grandfather was as brave as any combatant in the war. I for one would be interested in some of the stories he may have shared with you. He may have told you things that might even help us modelers build a better Panzer. Feel free to share with the forum or email me direct, it's up to you if wish to or not.