Tiger II 7.5

Jentz & Doyle make no mention of any Tiger II being armed with a 75mm weapon in: Germany's Tiger Tanks, VK45.02 to Tiger II: Design, Production & Modifications. Any such modification would have required extensive changes to the gun mounts, sights, ammunition storage and gun mantlet. While stranger things have happened, I'm not sure why this would have been done, as there is also no mention of a shortage of 88mm Kw.K 43 L/71 guns. Lets see the photo.

Whoa, what a put down of a beheamoth. She was too big to be armed with a 75, unless it were the long barreled 75 Kwk 42 L/70.

Well, it was in the Armor Models magazine by euromodellisimo. This guy converted tamiyas tiger II into the upgraded version. and it had a side diagram of it and above it was one with a 75mm gun in berlin i think.

The fact that some field workshop chopped up a damaged cat in Berlin and stuffed in whatever gun they had is certainly possible. I can show you a T-34 with a quad 20mm Flak 38 stuffed in it!
In the field, anything is possible.

ive got a photo of the real Tiger 2 with the 75mm gun,the photos from the seelow hights the guns from a Panther and would have been a field mod
maybe the kingtiger gun was damaged, but it looks odd

If you look closely at this photo,& compare it to a photo of a K.T.with
"normal" 8.8 cm, you can see that it is in fact the 8.8cm weapon,
only "blown back" out of battery. It was a typical method of destroying
the weapon when abandoning the tank....drain the fluid out of
the recoil mechanism,chamber a round,& fire it remotely...BAM,
junk... This particular photo is the most extreme case I have seen
of this damage,however. Perhaps an additional charge helped it
along???

Is this what we are talking about?



If so, this is exactly what Roowalker has described. Drain plugs opened, round fired, recuperator destroyed, toast. A very common method of scuttling a tank.

What an inglorious end, but I guess you have to do what have to do.

Turns a fighting vehicle into a 70 ton paperweight very effectively. No additional explosives required. Wonder how many suffered this fate, especially later in the war? The crew were probably quite happy to survive and escape the comforts of a Soviet POW camp as an alternative though...

I've seen many a Tiger II penetrated in the side of the turret. Another disabled by a mine. Needless to say it was a 90mm that penetrated the turret. I haven't seen any Tiger II destroyed by Russian tanks.

Yup I have seen other photos showing German tanks that have been done this way. It looks odd but its just an 88 at full recoil... Ingenious end indeed... very cheap and effective.

Tankbuild,
which issue or Armor Models is that?
i have 1 &2, and don't see it.
how far behind has my collection gotten?

Tigerman,

Here's a link about King Tigers destoroyed by Russian T-34-85, IS-2 and ISU-122.

http://www.linux-penguin.org/achtungpanzer/articles/tigertam.htm

In a study done by the russians on the captured KT...it is interesting to know that they felt that the US 76mm AT round is more effective than the Russian 85mm AT round.

Well, Huncommander and I dorve up to Fort Knox to check out the Patton museum. We looked in Finescale to see what good hobby stores there are in Kentucky. We stopped at one, and he bought issue # 3. But it does say 7,5 KwK 42 l/70 on the Oder Front, March 1945.

Humm....This is beginning to look like another "What do we see in the photo" thing, that is, if we had a photo to look at. Call me sceptical, but if I were to post all the mis-captioned photos I have, I'd pretty much blow out the bandwidth here. "A 105mm Hummel, a 75mm Wespe, a 600mm Dora (by Ian Hogg, no less), every Panzer IV with turret Schurtzen is a "Tiger", every German tank larger than a Panzer III is a "Tiger"......the list goes on and on. I'm not saying this couldn't / didn't happen, it's just that there are too many errors in too many books, magazines and especially websites, to give this much credence without any evidence. Maybe someone that has this image can scan it in and post it, at least then we would have something to work with. Let's just not get bogged down in a battle of optical illusions.

well, i dont have a scanner. Darn technology, DARN TECHNOLOGY. I 'll have to look around for one. Wonder if Kinkos has one ?? Also, its not really a picture, illustration rather, and that magazine does have errors.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion Humm....This is beginning to look like another "What do we see in the photo" thing, that is, if we had a photo to look at. Call me sceptical, but if I were to post all the mis-captioned photos I have, I'd pretty much blow out the bandwidth here. "A 105mm Hummel, a 75mm Wespe, a 600mm Dora (by Ian Hogg, no less), every Panzer IV with turret Schurtzen is a "Tiger", every German tank larger than a Panzer III is a "Tiger"......the list goes on and on. I'm not saying this couldn't / didn't happen, it's just that there are too many errors in too many books, magazines and especially websites, to give this much credence without any evidence. Maybe someone that has this image can scan it in and post it, at least then we would have something to work with. Let's just not get bogged down in a battle of optical illusions.

Like so many times before you have the right words for the situation Peridexion, lets just hope this doesn't turn into one of those Jagdtiger zimmerit or no zimmerit discusions again.

Tankbuild121,

Ask and you shall receive.

This is not a picture. It's a scan of a drawing from Euro Modelismo #3. The top line of the text reads:

"Pz.Kpfw. VI TIGER Ausf B (Sd.Kfz. 182) mit 7.5 KwK 42 L/70 [Sch. SS-Pz.Abt.502?] Oder Frpmt, March 1945.



It doesn't solve the issue, but it does show that someone out there thinks that at the end of the war, Germany was slapping whatever they had on these chassis.

Enjoy your modeling...

This drawing is not of a final production model Tiger II. Final production models had 18 tooth drive sprockets with single-link Kgs 73/800/152 tracks, not the 9 tooth sprocket, double-link, Gs 26/800/300 tracks as seen here, 6 sets of single-link track hangers per side and 5 rings welded to the turret sides for securing camouflage, along with many other features not visible on this drawing. I have several photos of numerous completed turrets sitting on blocks at the Henschel factory when it was captured by American forces at the end of March, 1945. All of these turrets are armed with 88mm Kw.K. 43 L/71 guns. Why would Henschel interupt production to completely rebuilt the interior of a Tiger II to accommodate a 75mm Kw.K. 42 L/70 gun, when there is no shortage of 88mm guns and it has spare 88mm armed turrets sitting on blocks? If this was the last vehicle to roll out the door and there weren't any extra guns or turrets laying around, I could MAYBE see this happening, but this is not the case. What happened is some author sees a photo of a scuttled Tiger II, just like the one I posted earlier and comes to the conclusion that this is a new variant, without any production records, text or anything else to back up his claim. Besides, the barrel depicted in the drawing isn't even long enough to be the 5.535 meter long Kw.K 42, it would barely make an L/48.

P.S. The photo I posted most likely IS the source of this author's confusion, since this photo is a Tiger II of Schwere SS-Panzerabteilung 502 in the Seelow Heights Sector, taken on March 28th 1945. Compare the drawing with the photo. Both have the splinter-pattern camo on the hull sides and irregular blotches of color on the turret, just as the caption on the drawing states.
I also have this unit's entire operational history, just in case anyone needs to know.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion This drawing is not of a final production model Tiger II. Final production models had 18 tooth drive sprockets with single-link Kgs 73/800/152 tracks, not the 9 tooth, double-link Gs26/800/300 tracks as seen here, 6 sets of single link track hangers per side and 5 rings welded to the turret sides for securing camouflage, along with many other features not visible on this drawing. I have several photos of numerous completed turrets sitting on blocks at the Henschel factory when it was captured by American forces at the end of March, 1945. All of these turrets are armed with 88mm Kw.K. 43 L/71 guns. Why would Henschel interupt production to completely rebuilt the interior of a Tiger II to accommodate a 75mm Kw.K. 42 L/70 gun, when there is no shortage of 88mm guns and it has spare 88mm armed turrets sitting on blocks? If this was the last vehicle to roll out the door and there weren't any extra guns or turrets laying around, I could MAYBE see this happening, but this is not the case. What happened is some author sees a photo of a scuttled Tiger II, just like the one I posted earlier and comes to the conclusion that this is a new variant, without any production records, text or anything else to back up his claim. Besides, the barrel depicted in the drawing isn't even long enough to be the 5.535 meter long Kw.K 42, it would barely make an L/48.

Always amazing to hear the depth of knowledge and references you have at your disposal Peridexion...maybe we should call this the "Elvis" Tiger as it seems to keep being sighted in various places....

Thank you, wbill76. I have a secret weapon......my wife! Any book I want.....I get for FREE!!!!
This is why I married a woman who is a publishing representative! My library rocks!

Peridexion is correct, especially W. regard to the am't of work
required to make the conversion,BTW, on the subject of weapon
swapping, has anyone seen any documentation / photos of
a JagdTiger w. 8.8 cm. L-71 ???
Roowalker

I think we should open a new forum; Zombie Topics from Hell. [:0] You know, rumors about subjects nobody can find information about, urban legends of things that just won't die on their own, that sort of thing.

OK......You folks all wanna open a new can of worms? The legendary 88mm Armed Jagdtigers? Do you REALLY want to know? 'Cause I'm sure this topic will crash through the laboratory and raise terror in the village, requiring the strength of 7 administrators to lock it out and administer the Thorazine. I'm not going to bring this creature to life here, for it will surely heap unrelated mud on this topic, which...God willing.....will be left to R.I.P. So... if you really want to bring this one to life, someone open it in a new thread and I'll start the new conflagration there.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion I think we should open a new forum; Zombie Topics from Hell. [:0] You know, rumors about subjects nobody can find information about, urban legends of things that just won't die on their own, that sort of thing. OK......You folks all wanna open a new can of worms? The legendary 88mm Armed Jagdtigers? Do you REALLY want to know? 'Cause I'm sure this topic will crash through the laboratory and raise terror in the village, requiring the strength of 7 administrators to lock it out and administer the Thorazine. I'm not going to bring this creature to life here, for it will surely heap unrelated mud on this topic, which...God willing.....will be left to R.I.P. So... if you really want to bring this one to life, someone open it in a new thread and I'll start the new conflagration there.

Burn him! He's a witch!

OK Peridexion,I just thought I could stir up something,cause this does
fall into the "legends" catagory....Guess I'll go look for Fokker DR1's
in Belgian barns...
Roowalker,who just sat through hurricane Charley

Ah....But not as legendary as we have been lead to believe.......or is it? [:0]

OK, I'll go open this up in a little bit, just as soon as I line up my ducks, 'cause I know they'll be shot at.

Peridexion,you whetted my appetite,cause my references are several years
old...
Roowalker

I just don't believe a tiger 2 would have a 75 mil barrel. It just doesn't make sence. Why would the Germans spend extra money and effort redesigning the Tiger 2 turret to fit a 75? Spending money to downsize the king, when (peridexion's info) extra turrets were lying around waiting to be slapped on a turret. Finacialy and militarly it's not a sound idea. You have the chance of field modifications, but I feel a major barrel overhaul and refitting in the field might be a little unrealistic. By the time the Germans would finish with implanting a 75 on a KT, the front would have probably allready been overun. To me this instance looks like self-sabotaging the barrel.