German FlaK crew piping

rebelreenactor

Member since
October 2003
From: Clovis, Calif

German FlaK crew piping

Posted by rebelreenactor on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:48 AM

As some of you know I am building italeris Demag D7 w/ FlaK 38 and will be adding some figs too it.
My question is, what branch of service drove it? Did infantry? Panzer Divisions?
I know that the SS had them.
Thaks for your help.

P.S. If you have a pic of a FlaK crew of any flack gun please post it or give me a site. thanks

John

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wildwilliam

Member since
December 2009
From: West Grove, PA

Posted by wildwilliam on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:52 AM

Rebel,
this does not answer your question, but it may answer the one that comes next.
here is a site w/ gobs of German uniform info:
http://www.deutschesoldaten.com/

i think the Luftwaffe was also involved in Flak pieces, but have no info as of yet.
i will see what i can find.
perhaps some site has good order of battle data.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:54 AM

i thought that the luftwaffe had control over everything concerning the air, flak guns included, i know the SS did have them from Devil's Adjutant about Peiper
thats my two cents

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rebelreenactor

Member since
October 2003
From: Clovis, Calif

Posted by rebelreenactor on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:14 AM

I forgot to say that I do know for a fact that the Luftwaffe field division had them as well as the Wehrmach .

Ed. You must have read my mind, I have been searching for german uniform stuff. thanks

John

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wildwilliam

Member since
December 2009
From: West Grove, PA

Posted by wildwilliam on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:29 AM

this site has a decent pic, but i do not know who is riding along.
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/halftracks_2.html
this page has same pic, and a passing mention of Flak units of Luftwaffe & Wehrmacht
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3620/10_4.htm

i found some nice books (very expensive) that likely have your data . . .
now we just need the $$

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rebelreenactor

Member since
October 2003
From: Clovis, Calif

Posted by rebelreenactor on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 11:56 AM

those sites are almost exactly what I was looking for. I know the first one on the first page is luftwaffa but not sure about the second. Thanks for the sites, big help.

John

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:45 PM

In additon to Luftwaffe operated Flak Corps and Flak Combat Troops, Panzer Regiments had their own organic light flak platoons. In the typical make-up of a Panzer Regiment in 1944, the Regimental Staff Company had it's own Fliegerabwehrzug consisting of 4 squads with 2 flakpanzers each plus a maintenance squad. The first and second Battalions each had a flak unit as their third platoon, usually consisting of 3 Sd.Kfz 7/1 quad 20mm or equivalent vehicles. Earlier units would have had vehicles such as the Demag 7 or other single barrel 20mm. 37mm weapons were also used. Panzerjager Abteilungs also had organic light 20mm and 37mm flak companies.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 1:34 AM

The piping colors would be:
Heer; bright red for artillery and heavy AA, white for Light AA (with Fl on shoulder strap).
Luftwaffe; bright red for all AA
SS; No specific color listed for AA but artillery is bright red.
These are the "color of arm"

I have much more info including structure and TO&E (Tables of Organization & Equipment) if you want it.

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rebelreenactor

Member since
October 2003
From: Clovis, Calif

Posted by rebelreenactor on Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:50 AM

yes pleaze!
Is the Flak 38 considered a heavy AA gun?
thanks

John

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:49 AM

Nope

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 1:54 PM

20 and 37mm guns were "light", 88, 105, 128 and 150mm guns were "heavy".
I'll get back to you with the rest, need to scan.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:05 PM

37mm through 50mm are actually considered Medium Flak.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:25 PM

My source list 37mm as light. There is no mention of 50mm or any other medium guns. Confused [%-)]

Hate to think I spent $40 on a book that is wrong but it is old and has info I've nowhere else.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:58 PM

I'm quoting out of German Flak of World War II, by Werner Muller, Schiffer Publishing, pages 12 and 13. Page 115 shows 2 photos of the 50mm Flak 41 in action. There are also the 47mm Flak (Skoda) and the captured 40mm Bofors L/60 which were used as medium flak guns.

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rebelreenactor

Member since
October 2003
From: Clovis, Calif

Posted by rebelreenactor on Thursday, August 19, 2004 3:09 PM

After doing some research on my project I realized that the elements Luftwaffe field division had reached belgium but with out vehicles. So Lw is out. (i am doing a late 1944 dio)

So I will be doing a vehicle of the heer.
Derek, what was the fl on there shoulder straps for. (flak?) Would this be white also?
and could you please post or email me the structure and TO&E chart you have?
rebelreenactor@hotmail.com
Thanks

John

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 19, 2004 7:07 PM

Here are some more pics;
http://ww2photo.mimerswell.com/tanks/d/sdkfz/sd10/sd10.htm

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rebelreenactor

Member since
October 2003
From: Clovis, Calif

Posted by rebelreenactor on Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:04 PM

That site has been the most helpful to me with the vehicle and amount of crew, found through some searches. thanks anyways though.

John

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 21, 2004 3:28 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peridexion

I'm quoting out of German Flak of World War II, by Werner Muller, Schiffer Publishing, pages 12 and 13. Page 115 shows 2 photos of the 50mm Flak 41 in action. There are also the 47mm Flak (Skoda) and the captured 40mm Bofors L/60 which were used as medium flak guns.

Found some info on the 50mm and a 55mm(!), the Skoda and Bofors I knew about, some Bofors were also purchased before the war. The Bofors actually showed up in the inventories of about all of the the major combatants.

QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelreenactor

*snip*
Derek, what was the fl on there shoulder straps for. (flak?) Would this be white also?
*snip*

Correct on both counts. Will have the info to you soon, scanning now.

EDIT My info is from TM-E 30-451, the U.S. War department handbook on German military forces, 1MAR1945

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Edit

rebelreenactor

Member since
October 2003
From: Clovis, Calif

Posted by rebelreenactor on Saturday, August 21, 2004 3:49 PM

great thanks

John

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