Cromwell models ordering problem

Hello,

I placed an order which was paid in full on Nov. 30th 2009 using my credit card.

My only recourse is to call my credit card company and let them deal with this.

It's truly sad because no one else makes the kits above and I understand that Cromwell's MRAPs are outstanding.

If anyone can offer any advice on another coarse or action I'd appreciate there advice.

Kind Regards,

Greg Primm

Las Vegas, NV

GregPrimm,

Ouch!  That is a fair chunk of cash to be burned on!

Change your credit card #. Free service to protect your credit and $

Stick with established mail order companies. Small ones will come and go, if it happens when you are doing business with them it will be impossible to be refunded. I have recently acquired a low limit card for transactions online to allow my higher limit card to be kept safer.

Had good results ordering through Squadron mail order. The duty and tax made the prices level out, I did so to get the products I wanted without searching LHS or ordering through them and hopping they would pull through. 

Hopefully they straighten this matter out for you.

Jason

From what I've read on other forums & what he's replied in them, this is what I know:

He is a one-man band, (sfaik)

His web-site has gone south because he was let down by the guy that was doing his site, but I don't know why.

According to Gordon, his workshop was seriously flooded last year & he lost a lot of production & moulds. He has also said elsewhere that he has had problems casting the WRAP bar armour for various kits & wouldn't release them untill he's sorted production issues.   

He has also indicated that one of his close family has serious health issues & this has been taking a long time.

These problems seem to have been going on for at least a year, & during that time he it seems to me that he has concentrated on producing new masters to the detriment of production & customer care.

To be fair, his work is astonishing such as his Cholly 2 with barracuda netting in two versions, & I've personally seen the Cougar MRAP, Warrior & Bulldog kist at Telford, but I'm afraid until he sorts out production the best action would be to buy from importers that have stock 'on shelf'

If he's got your money, get on to your credit card co & reclaim, & some posters suggest a polite posted snail mail letter to his scottish address sometimes works.

Jon_a_its

From what I've read on other forums & what he's replied in them, this is what I know:

He is a one-man band, (sfaik)

His web-site has gone south because he was let down by the guy that was doing his site, but I don't know why.

According to Gordon, his workshop was seriously flooded last year & he lost a lot of production & moulds. He has also said elsewhere that he has had problems casting the WRAP bar armour for various kits & wouldn't release them untill he's sorted production issues.   

He has also indicated that one of his close family has serious health issues & this has been taking a long time.

These problems seem to have been going on for at least a year, & during that time he it seems to me that he has concentrated on producing new masters to the detriment of production & customer care.

To be fair, his work is astonishing such as his Cholly 2 with barracuda netting in two versions, & I've personally seen the Cougar MRAP, Warrior & Bulldog kist at Telford, but I'm afraid until he sorts out production the best action would be to buy from importers that have stock 'on shelf'

If he's got your money, get on to your credit card co & reclaim, & some posters suggest a polite posted snail mail letter to his scottish address sometimes works.

 

 

 

Once again supply and demand.

Regardless of how brilliant his workmanship is if he cannot fill the orders then he should decline new business. Its hard to do this yet better to refuse work then let customers down.

Sounds like he should have expanded and hired help to pour the molds and look after customer service. The demand for his talents is obviously there.

Well Greg,

                   join the Cromwell waiting club, you are having the same problem I had, in that I sent him the credit card details for a Mastiff, waited two months no answer, to either email or phone calls, sent him a cheque for his Xmas 10 or 15% off offer.  Nothing , I now had on order two Mastiffs, so I had to ask Ian Hanratty of Friendship Models, to help me out by phoning Mr Brown on his private phone number, to tell him that he had three weeks to sort himself out or I would inform my CC Co of his non dispatch.  Nothing  so I informed my CC Co and they refunded me my £165.00, not much I could do about the cheque for the second Mastiff.  Well blow me down, the next thing I know, email from said "Cromwell owner" " been having a problem with BAR ARMOUR, sorted now kits on the way".  They duly arrived, one or two small breakages, sent an email with breakage details, they arrived, great.  So I ordered ONE chally 2 conversion, TWO arrived, sent one, back asked for Ridgback as replacement, got an email on 5th June "Going on holiday for two weeks will post Ridgback on return".  Well B**ger me its now 2nd  September and it is obviously caught up in the postal system somewhere.

Credit card company informed just waiting now.

I can't understand the chap, his models are great they're modern and so upto date it's incredible, you jjust cant get hold of him to get them.  I might even drive up to Glasgow and collect them, but I'll wait till this last fiasco is sorted out.

Nil Desperandum

Onelung421

Hi Greg,

               I found out today that Gordon Brown  (Mr Cromwell Models), is moving locations, something about the old place was to large.  If you look on ' Missing Lynx'  Braile Scale about three or four pages back, well it was this morning, probabley moved a bit further back by now.  Aparently he is doing all his trading by snail  mail  now, I contacted the person that posted the info, he comes from your side of the pond and seems to have no problem with Cromwell.

Oh! By the way as it is so long since you had any contact with said person, your Credit Card Company, might possibly say that it has a three month limit on reclaming funds from defaulters. Mind you £530.00 is an awful lot of dosh to throw away, they might, if you explain the circumstances, give you your money.

I have it on good authority that he is going to be at the IMPS model show at Telford (England) in November, so I shall be there. I'll keep you posted.

Regards,

Jim

What a surprise!

There are so many people on the UK site that I use that have had or are having problems with Cromwell it is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

It's the same story everytime; order placed, card charged, no items received, chase up and no reply, eventual fob off story about fires and family problems etc etc..................

That's all good and any problems Gordon is having I hope he get's things sorted ASAP but he's quick enough to take money and promise dispatch of goods that day yet things never seem to be rectified!

I'd say if you are going to buy from Cromwell at present at least only buy face to face (a bit tricky if you are in the States I know) but until he get's sorted I'd personally steer VERY clear. I've read that many reports of no products delivered but money taken that I'd never use the guy.

Shame as the MRAP loks amazing!

ATVB

Ben    

Ben you're correct in all you say. 

 But it's also a great shame that he treats his customers the way he does.  I can only speak for the 1/35th side.  Over the past eight or nine years, I have spent an awful lot of money on Cromwell kits, and as you rightly say they are amazing. I never had a problem with him sending the kits I ordered on line, that is untill the Mastiff.  Then for some unknown reason things began to go pear shaped.  He had a problem getting the bar armour out of the moulds, OK send out a round robin email saying, "having a problem with the armour will send it when problem rectified"and send the kit minus armour, at least you can get on with the vehicle .   Then with all the rough weather, his workshops get flooded out.  But people  were still ordering  kits from him, and it was then that his name started to get bad, or, in some cases, worse press coverage.                           .

 Of the latest batch, the MRAP, Mastiff, and Chally2 conversion, I was fortunate enough to get them all, I can ctagorically say the Mastiff is spot on in all respects.  My wife works at the largest driving school in possibly, apart from the US, the world.   Where all U.K Military pers are taught to drive these vehicles, and I have been round, inside and out, both the Mastiff and the Ridgback; which he should be producing now, according to his last email to me in June. and he has replicated it to a TEE. 

Well he is going to IMPS modelling show at Telford in  November so if you have ordered and not received, get yourself there, because I shall certainly be there at the front.  Unless he sends my Ridgback before .

Jim

It is a continuing theme on the site Missing Lynx. Pops up every six months or so with normally the same issue, "I ordered x number of months ago...sent many emails...tried calling him...credit card company next..."

Normally followed by cynical responses, "don't folks here ever learn?", "great product, lousy service", "only buy if you can see it at a show", etc.

Also sprinkled in are a couple guys who ordered, got what they wanted in a timely manner or were content to wait the many moons until it arrived. Usually added to by the "one man show", "just moved", "real life got in the way of business", "try calling the UK equivalent of the BBB", etc.

Here's one from June of 2010 in which Gordon Brown evens responds:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1277317127/Cromwell+models-+purchase+problem

And one from a decade ago (November 2000) was the earliest post that pops up first:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/974492113/Cromwell+models

Greg Primm   I    just came across your post last year about Cromwell Models,did you get the matter resolved Greg.     John  Glasgow

Hi Greg    Did u ever get this sorted out.    John      Glasgow

Hi Greg   Well  Greg I have traced Mr Brown to his new place of business his new address is

Cromwell Model Productions

Units N 1 & 2 ,Glasgow North Trading Estate

24 Craigmont Street

Glasgow G20 9BT

E-mail   cromwellmodels@yahoo.co.uk

              infoatcromwell@yahoo.co.uk

             ordersatcromwell@yahoo.co.uk

No phone number im afraid,I hope this is of some use to you & you get a result.   All the best    John

Hello,

 Back in December 2011 I bought from Gordon Cromwell (Cromwell Models, cromwellmodels@yahoo.co.uk) some resin models after having checked with him that they were in stock and that he was ready to ship them. I have paid via paypal 189GBP for two models. I have not received anything yet, in spite of the fact that he told me twice that the models were on the point to be shipped. He failed to answer to my requests for information. After this, I started looking on the Web, and I discovered that this person is unfortunately known for receiving payment and only very rarely delivering the purchased goods. You can find some statement about his behavior in the following links:

/forums/t/27166.aspx?PageIndex=2
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47210/message/1329641712/more+troubles+for+Gordon+and+Cronwell+models
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/thread/1327360897/Gordon+Brown+%26amp%3B+Cromwell+Models+-+A+Warning+to+all.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cromwell-Models-complaints/324422457600569
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cromwell-Models-complaints/324422457600569?sk=info
http://armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=88887
/forums/p/27166/1294245.aspx

On some web sites his address and phone number are listed as 

Owner: Gordon Brown
Address: Units N 1 & 2, Glasgow North Trading Estate, 24 Craigmont Street, Glasgow, G20 9BT, UK
Phone: 0141 942 8596
e-mail: cromwellmodels@yahoo.co.uk or infoatcromwell@yahoo.co.uk or ordersatcromwell@yahoo.co.uk
Website: 

But at least the phone number does not appear to be a real one. Please pass the word, this person is getting your money and not delivering anything, 
 

Best, fca

I'm still amazed that this keeps going on. Type "Gordon Brown Cromwell Models" into Google and the ENTIRE first page of returns are complaints on various modeling forums and a Facebook page dedicated to Cromwell Models Complaints.

Yet folks still send hundreds of dollars, pounds, Euros, etc. to him. Even this thread is nearly eight years old.

Hi,

   if you are trying to hint that I have been stupid, believe me I am the first to be painfully aware of that ! I just can't fathom how someone who could make a lot of money by selling good models just continues to cheat people so that his name is now mud. I definitely will not deal with him any more. I also wrote to paypal, which "automatically" ignored my complaint because it was after the 45 days deadline, and to the Glasgow police, fraud alert contactus@strathclyde.pnn.police.uk and the answer was that I have to go there (!) to file a complaint. So no way to either get my money or to somehow stop this guy from cheating. Too bad. Best, 

By the way... I also filed a fraud report to 

https://reportfraud.actionfraud.police.uk

best, 

Not imply anything regarding anyone's intelligence. Just amazed that in the relatively small international community of armor modelers that this person can continue to accumulate new customers. Most, if not all, online modeling sites discontinued covering his new kit news and latest releases because of constant complaints.

Although there are many modelers who are fully aware of the problems and place orders anyway then let everyone know they have joined the club of unsatisfied customers. Those are the ones that I really don't get.

My opinion is that every successful purchase was funded by the dozens of folks who never got anything for their money. It seems that for every customer who got what they ordered in a timely manner, there were many who didn't get anything for years and even more who never got a thing. Yet before the end of 2012, there will be new modelers replying to this or any number of similar threads on different forums.

Yep,

   have to agree with you...

Unfortunately, it appears that the folks who often see resolution are the ones local to Scotland and can make the most noise with the least amount of cost to themselves. Many international customers give up because the costs associated with reimbursement exceed the amount in question.

Typical method is to string the customer along with statements that the package is ready to ship; need your address again; it was mailed, check with your post office; and similar stalling tactics. Then once the 45 or 90 days are up for your chance for a refund from PayPal or credit card company are gone, he has no idea who you are and ceases communication.

He has a great range of 1:76/72 scale kits that I would love to get hold of, such as the Merkava IV, but I will not expose my credit card to a sure fired failed transaction. That simply ends in tears.

Here is a thread on Missing Lynx discussing how to order his stuff through a middle man (Tracks-n-Troops). The thread is just a few days old and accentuates the notion that successful completion of a transaction may have something to do with how close you are to Scotland. Consensus is that UK buyers seem to fair better than those overseas.

I'm pointing this out in fairness to the vendor, but my personal opinion is that every successful transaction was made possible at the expense of all the unsuccessful transactions. The money taken from those unfortunate modelers helped fund his living expenses, internet access, phone, rent, postage, raw materials, time, etc. so that a few could get what they ordered. If you can live with that, sobeit, but chances are you'll end up like Mr. Blythe of Melbourne in the second link.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/thread/1337863662/Cromwell+Models

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/thread/1327360897/Gordon+Brown+%26amp%3B+Cromwell+Models+-+A+Warning+to+all-

Hi fellow cromwell sacraficial lambs,

I like all of you, have had some BAD experiences with the infamous Mr Brown.  Having dealt with him for over ten years, I thought I had escaped the growing number of dissatisfied customers.  How wrong I was, having successfully bought 2 Mastiffs, and a chally 2 2008 upgrade,I heard that he was in the process of producing the Ridgback, so I ordered 1 that was in May 2010.  Then the round of unanswered emails , letters sent recorded by normal postal services, the strange stystem of a phone number being advertised as his but on dialing it, was told "This number is not recognised".  then as you say came the excuses , It's been posted and returned, Lie 1, waiting for permission to release said kit by manufacturer of actual vehicle, and others. All this, while he had £75.00 of my money in his bank.

Having sat and waited for over 23 months, I decided after reading the latest thread on Missing Lynx to send "A final demand" email, informing him that Ihad contacted a reporter on the Glasgow herald and asked if he could possibly print a writeup of Mr Browns fraudulant practices. Also enquiring about a FV432, could he produce 1 for me in a week as I had a customer waiting for it.

I am not sure whether it was the 432 or the contacting the Glasgow Herald, but within 24 hours I had received an answer form him.  Saying basically, he could produce the kit in a week for me, (There goes the 28 day delivery time, straight out the window), and if I sent him my Paypal account name he would send me my £75.00.  How is it that he can suddenly gain the use of his computer and have funds in his bank that aren't earmarked for his next Portugese holiday??

Needless to say I opted for the Paypal money transfer, and cancelled the 432 order.  I will let you know if and when he sends the money.

In the mean time I wish you all good hunting.

Regards,

                         Jim

Do not do business with this "person"....unless you expect to get nothing for your money... 

I'd consider calling in an air-strike on this chap...

Dear All,

 Just to let you know that, as posted elsewhere, I bought in December 2011 from Mr. Brown two Kassbohrer trailers 1.35.  After months of emails and phone calls I have finally received the two kits, with some (very appreciated) extra castings in form of an apology. Anybody can make his (her) own judgement on the whole story, and whether the gain is worth the pain, but I felt obliged to let you know that I had to wait ten months, but I did not lose any money and I have two beautiful and rare kits to build. Best regards,

Dear All,

 Just to let you know that, as posted elsewhere, I bought in December 2011 from Mr. Brown two Kassbohrer trailers 1/35.  After months of posting in forums, emails and phone calls I have finally received the two kits, with some (very appreciated) extra castings in form of an apology. Anybody can make his (her) own judgement on the whole story, and whether the gain is worth the pain, but I felt obliged to let you know that I had to wait ten months, but I did not lose any money and I have two beautiful and rare kits to build. Best regards,