Difference between M2 Bradley IFV and M3 CFV?

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2.htm

- Snacko

Well, that clears it up for me.

I really appreciate your help on this. If you ever have an Air Craft questions feel free to look me up.

SrA Clinton Bickell
Security Forces Specialist.

from the inside, the firing port covers are round, from the outside, they appear as wedge-shaped cut outs. All side firing ports were deleted after the M2A1. Of course the majority of Bradleys in theater are M2A2s. Five mech infantry battalions are there and equipped with 54 M2A2s each, only one divisional cavalry squadron per division (3-7 CAV) is there with about 30 M3A2s total.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius The first difference is the cargo/TOW reload hatch. The M2A2 has a plain bulged rectangular hatch similar to the ones found on the previous M2/M3/M2A1/M3A1 Bradleys. The M3A2 has several periscopes integrated into the hatch and the hatch bulge is different because of this. The second difference is the rear periscopes of the M2A2. They are located on the small upper hull strip between the cargo hatch and the back edge of the hull. These periscopes are on the hull so the two rear firing ports can be sighted while the cargo hatch is opened and the TOW reloaded.

Now that you mention this I can see it. I only have three pictures depicting clearly the back of the Bradley. All three show the view ports you're referring to. The pictures I have depicting the rear of the Bradley aren't clear enough to tell me if what I'm looking at are mid-hull view ports or top hatch ones. If I'm not mistakeing, they're mid hull. That would lead me to believe the majority of Bradleys in Iraq right now or M2A2's

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius This leads to the third difference, the M2A2 has the two firing ports on the rear ramp. One on the troop door and the other on the ramp. These circular ports are not on the M3A2. On earlier M3/M3A1s they were just plated over, on the M3A2 and later variants they are not manufactured into the ramps.

Off the three pictures of the rear I have, only two pictures show the ramp. I can see two "indentations" in the rear ramp where you're talking about. They dont look like circular, per-say. More like squares. As fare as the side firing ports go? No matter what picture i see of any modernized Bradley, they are all covered by the up armor.

I see some older Bradleys have the firing ports about mid hall, and some have them twards the rear. Which one is which in that case? Whats that all about?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Pico1180 I've learned one thing. There is no difrence in the M2A2/M3A2 from out side. At least that i could tell.

Incorrect lesson learned. There are several external differences between the M2A2 and M3A2 (likewise the M2A3 and M3A3).

The first difference is the cargo/TOW reload hatch. The M2A2 has a plain bulged rectangular hatch similar to the ones found on the previous M2/M3/M2A1/M3A1 Bradleys. The M3A2 has several periscopes integrated into the hatch and the hatch bulge is different because of this.

The second difference is the rear periscopes of the M2A2. They are located on the small upper hull strip between the cargo hatch and the back edge of the hull. These periscopes are on the hull so the two rear firing ports can be sighted while the cargo hatch is opened and the TOW reloaded.

This leads to the third difference, the M2A2 has the two firing ports on the rear ramp. One on the troop door and the other on the ramp. These circular ports are not on the M3A2. On earlier M3/M3A1s they were just plated over, on the M3A2 and later variants they are not manufactured into the ramps.

Having been stationed with the Cav I know the difference is actually that the CFV does NOT have the m-16 firing ports on the side and in the rear of the vehicle. Also the CFV has more room to hold supplies so it can support itself while out on recon missions. A CFV is set up to be a team oriented (such as Rangers ,and Special Focres ) meaning the vehicle does not just drop two dismounted scouts off and leave them there . the dismounts are to provide extended "eyes and ears" for the vehicle. I hope that this helps you out . any more questions fell free to ask

Rob-
I've been all over that link you posted.

Good stuff.

I've learned one thing.

There is no difrence in the M2A2/M3A2 from out side. At least that i could tell. I did notice that the fireing ports have been removed. or at least the UP-Armor covers it.

I think Tamiyas M2A2 kit will serve my needs.

Does anyone know if the make an UP-Armored converstion for the older Tamiya M2/M3's?

The Tamiya M2 and M3 are virtually identical kits. The M2 just has an interior added, but contains all the exterior parts to make the M3. The main external visual differences of the early M2 and M3 are the plated over firing ports on the M3. The interior is only correct for an M2, but an M3 interior changes can be faked or scratch built.

The M2's original purpose was to transport infantry to the battle and allow them to fight from inside the vehicle. The M3 transports cavalry scouts who then dismount and stay hidden to gather intelligence on enemy formations. The seating arrangements and number of GIBS (guys in back sleeping) have changed in the various models of Bradleys.

I posted some scans of the technical manuals in a post here: http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=PostBoard&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=8262&page=1

Both the M2 and M3 have been replaced in front line units by the M2A2ODS, M3A2ODS and the M2A3 and M3A3. These variants have more external differences from one another than the earlier M2/3 or M2A1/M3A1. Once yu get to the linked site, click on "Gallery" and you can visit my motor pool to see photos of a few different Bradleys.

QUOTE: Originally posted by TooTall_68 ...Both carry, M-242 25mm chain gun, M-240C machine gun, TOW missle luancher (IFV 5, CFV 15) IFV has firing ports for infantry weapons, the CFV may not (I am not sure) M-2 IFV carries 6 grunts (infantrymen) M-3 CFV only carries 2 M-3 can carry twice as much 25mm ammo for the main gun, and upto five Dragon AT missles in place of five TOW's (probably depends on unit mission and S.O.P.) Tip - Don't eat No yellow snow !!!!!!!!!!

OK, so basically, the CFV is has an inteior built up more for weapons stoarage. Presumable for tank suport and scotting. Yet its lighter armor and slower speed (compared to the M1A1) would make the M3 fall in an antiquated, obsolete role.

Thats why we only see model kits of the M2. Fundamentally the M2 and M3 are difrent only in the interior where one has more room for troops and the other has more room for ammo.

Makes perfect since.

Where did you get that info may I ask?

QUOTE: Originally posted by TenchiMuyo81 You can find Infantry Fighting Vehicles on E-Bay now? Damn, they really ARE willing to sell anything!

That would be a TAMIYA IFV. As in 1/35 scale PLASTIC.

Here's a few facts on the M-2/M-3 that I have found so far. The main thing is to do some research and be careful that you don't get the two confused. It's real easy !!

Both carry, M-242 25mm chain gun, M-240C machine gun, TOW missle luancher (IFV 5, CFV 15)

IFV has firing ports for infantry weapons, the CFV may not (I am not sure)

M-2 IFV carries 6 grunts (infantrymen) M-3 CFV only carries 2

M-3 can carry twice as much 25mm ammo for the main gun, and upto five
Dragon AT missles in place of five TOW's
(probably depends on unit mission and S.O.P.)

Tip - Don't eat No yellow snow !!!!!!!!!!

You can find Infantry Fighting Vehicles on E-Bay now?
Damn, they really ARE willing to sell anything!

The vehical is the same, the only differances should be in weopons and uses. (The military is fun that way) I am not sure of the detail differences. I would say If you want to build an M3 go ahead and get the M2 kit if the M3 kit can't be found. I will check and see what I can find out on the differences and get back to you. I may even have an extra M2 or M3 kit I am willing to sale. I will post another message in a day or two. Or you can email me at : tootall_68@alltel.net