Panther Ausf. F. Actual production and use in combat?

Here is another questionable topic. To quote page 113 of Germany's Panther Tank, again by the venerable Jentz and Doyle; "As proven by a report listing their Fgst.Nr., all the Panthers (assembled at Daimler-Benz) issued to the next to the last unit were still Panther Ausf. G. Therefore, if a few Panther Ausf F had been successfully completed, they would have been issued on the 20 through the 23 April 1945 to the II./Panzer-Regiment 2 for immediate employment in the defense of the Berlin area." That is all they have to say on whether or not any Ausf F were completed and deployed. Several turrets were completed, several hulls were on the production lines at the end of the war, but there is no proof any were ever completed and deployed. Maybe the Russians know something we don't, since they fought there and we didn't. But if there were any Ausf F to be found in Berlin, I would think the Russians would have dragged it back home, presumably later to be found at Kubinka, since they seem to have just about every other oddball German vehicle there and this one would have been rather important to them. But after all, nobody knew they had a Maus until after the fall of the Soviet Union!
As far as the DML kit is concerned, it is based on what we do know the Ausf F would have looked like, so it is not a hypothetical vehicle, it just wasn't completed.

It appears that no completed Ausf F Panther tanks were ever built although there are some unsubstantiated rumours that the Russians (always rumours regarding the Russians) may have some components for at least one. The only parts the Allies saw were unfinished turrets, two of which were recovered for inspection. One went to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds but vanished several years after the war, the other is now at the Tank Musuem in England after being recovered from an artillery range in the mid 1980's (the Brits used it for target practice!) It is generally believed that there would have been many more turrets in the factory had a production run actually been started.

Daimler Benz fitted at least two test turrets onto Ausf G chassis, using the 75mm gun, and it could be these that are the rumoured Ausf F's to have seen action.

The Osprey Panther booklet shows an actual F prototype turret on a G hull. The reference goes on to state that there were a few captured turrets ready for production at wars end. Schmalturm Panthers were never ecorded as seeing action.

Steve

I'd love to get dragon's 1/72 kit of that. be pretty neat for a hypo-thetical build with an infared sensor. that'd really be neat

Matt,

Doesn't DML offer a 1/35th F Panther? I seem to recall seeing it at the LHS--

Steve

yes there is I have one the kit # is 9008.They also have a panther II kit as well.

BTW, if really serious about building a Panther F, strongly recomend that
you check out C.M.D.'s conversion to be used w. Tamiya late G kit .
Bill developed this using Jentz' research & its quite a bit more accurate
than the DML kit.
Hope this helps,
Roowalker

Thanks a lot to all.

...I've just ordered the DML/Dragon Panther Ausf. F model.
I'll tell you more once got it.

Thanks again,
Luciano Bassotti.

I got my DML/Dragon Panther F.
It looks like a good kit.

The kit provides a camouflage scheme and markings for a tank numbered 221 (black numbers trimmed white) for "Berlin 1945".
Do you know the parent unit (...hypothetical?) of this machine?

Thanks,
Luciano.

I don't believe any F versions ever saw combat , certainly none full F models , turrets were completed , possibly put onto g hulls , however I have found no evidence that even these ever saw service . I agree with Perdexion here on this subject .

"The Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World WAr II" by Peter Chamberlain and Hilary Doyle, published by Arms and Armor, copyright 1999 lists the following on the Panther Ausf F:

"Manufacturer: Daimler-Benz"
"The Ausf F did not go into series production. Reports indicate that 8 hulls were produced by Daimler-Benz in 1945, but only prototype turrets had been completed at this time."

Glenn

QUOTE: Therefore, if a few Panther Ausf F had been successfully completed, they would have been issued on the 20 through the 23 April 1945 to the II./Panzer-Regiment 2 for immediate employment in the defense of the Berlin area."

That would be 2nd battalion (abteilung) of Panzer Regiment 2. However, to which Panzer Division or Battle Group this would have been assigned to is not stated in this book and I don't know off-hand which one it theoretically would have been.

I found some more info's at:

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/pzkpfw_v.html

...I don't know from which sources the following info is drafted from, but you can read:
"Ausf F: Some were used at Stuhlweissenburg in 1945 with great success."

Regards,
Luciano B

The website lists only one source?
The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles - The Comprehensive Guide to Over 900 Armored Fighting Vehicles From 1915 to the Present Day, General Editor: Christopher F. Foss, 2002

I’ve got 40+ books on the Panther and there’s no proof that any where completed
I’ve seen Panther F hulls on assembly lines mixed with Panther Gs and wooden mock ups but no evidence of Panther Fs that were completed

I can’t be arsed to go into date and numbers of changes so ill let Peridexion do that, I’m sure he already has


But if you want to model a Panther F, Panther 2, Maus, E100 or IS-3 fighting in or around Berlin, it entirely up to you

According to my sources, the last major actions in and around Stuhlweissenburg or Szekesfehervar, were by the 2nd and 4th SS Panzer Korps during Unternehmen Fruhlingserwachen (Operation Morning Watch) on March 6th through the 16th, more than a month before the supposed completion of these hypothetical vehicles. I am looking at page 259 of Armor Battles of the Waffen SS, the heading; Panzers as Rear Guard Near Stuhlweissenburg by the 5th SS Pzreg. "Wiking". There is no mention of any Panther Fs. Here also were some of the final actions by such notables as Ernst Barkmann of Panzerregiment Das Reich, 2nd SS Panzer Korps. On the following pages are one of his combat reports. I would think, that if such a remarkable vehicle as a Panther F were to have seen action in this area, someone like Barkmann, one of the most successful Panther aces, and one who survived the war, would have taken notice and mentioned it.

I concur with Peridexion, but then a lot has been said (true or false) about the Maus. Years later, they found one in Russia.

Ah, such is true about the Maus. However, it is difficult to place a hypothetical Panther F in a combat zone more than month ahead of it's supposed completion date, an area that would have been long since captured by April 20th, the earliest date these unsubstatiated vehicles could have been finished.

if your after some books about the Panther Ausf F the first one you get should be. "Germanys Panther Tank, the quest for combat supremacy. by Thomas L Jentz"
its got photos of the assembly line
theres also the AJ Press books on the Panthers, but your have to wait for the one on the Panther F to be released, hopefully number 8

"Armour Battles of the Waffen SS by Will Fey" is a great read too (the book Peridexion metions above)