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Can Humvees with TOW launchers fire on the move?

Can Humvees with TOW launchers fire on the move?

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17 replies

targetdriver

Member since
May 2011
From: Omaha, NE

Posted by targetdriver on Monday, May 12, 2003 4:47 PM

All but one Abrahms was returned to service from first Gulf War. It was involved in a tranportation accident and flipped off of its transporter and landed on its turret. The frame was so badly twisted it was written off. Another was twisted up pretty bad during a "photo" shoot when the M1 "flew" over a berm and pancaked out, throwing tracks and road wheels every where. The TC lost several teeth when he hit the edge of the hatch and needed several stiches. Only other passenger was the driver. An old friend was on the recording crew. Afterwards they towed the wreck off, raked up the area and backed up another (undamaged) M1 and had it drive off real quick. The footage was edited and then shown over and over on the network news until the "real" story got out.

I think the grand total was 9 M1's damaged in First Gulf War. There is another discussion thread about damaged M1's somewhere.

Never heard of a T-62 doing anything other than doing slight damage to external items like side skirts, optics, and personal gear.

Cobrahistorian

Member since
December 2002
From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!

Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, May 12, 2003 2:57 PM

Thrawn,

There were a few incidents where 25mm DU fire from Bradleys knocked out Iraqi tanks in the recent war. In fact, I believe they were from the 3/7 infantry, and one killed THREE T-72s while the other got TWO, without loss. Think about it. Its firing a round just slightly smaller than that of the A-10, which was designed to kill tanks from the outset.

This incident happened on the outskirts of Baghdad in early April (not sure the exact date and will look up the news reports). I'm going to have to go back and look up the exact reports, but I did confirm it through at least two sources as being authentic.

As far as a T-62 taking out 2 Abrams in Desert Storm, I hadn't heard that one. Has anyone else? I know we lost 2 Abrams in 91 but both were returned to service.

Just my $.02

"1-6 is in hot"

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 12, 2003 11:15 AM

I found that very intresting too. There where several acounts in which the Bradleys 20mm took at a T-72. This was thought, not to be imposable, but to be very rare. I dont think we saw this in Desert Storm. I dont think the Bradleys 20mm round has been improved since then. Its always used DU I thought.

It could be explained by the fact it didnt see much actual combat in Desert Storm.

A 20mm cannon took out a T-72? I find that incredibly difficult to believe (not calling you incorrect, just amazing that it actually happened).

The Russians, incidentally, insist that the problems with the T-72 are because of the -Iraqis- and not because of their equipment. I tend to agree with them, marketing aside - the T-72 and T-80 are not lousy tanks by any stretch of the imagination, and if they'd been used with even an OUNCE of common sense. (Ie: the example where a '62 took out two Abrams in the first conflict)

Then again, thank God they didn't.

-T77-

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targetdriver

Member since
May 2011
From: Omaha, NE

Posted by targetdriver on Friday, May 9, 2003 2:13 PM

The only current Army HMMWV that can fire on the move - that I know of - is the Avenger. It has a pedastal mounted Stinger missile system on the back carrying 8 Stinger Missiles and a .50 cal machine gun. It is stabilized and can track and fire on targets while moving. I will see if I can find a video to post.

I think that the announcer at the recent Florida Air Show is pulling your leg about firing a 65 mph. Realistically it is possible, but not tactically! I am an Acitve Duty Air Defense Officer, with enlisted ADA experience and can tell you that it is not a very pleasant ride over 45 mph not matter what terrain you are crossing while in the "tub" on an Avenger.

Scott A. Monson
CPT, USA

renarts

Member since
April 2003
From: Sunny Florida

Posted by renarts on Thursday, May 8, 2003 11:41 PM

I worked on an R&D team for a DoD contractor that made boom toys for the marines. For a while we were playing with anything and everything that shot, banged, boomed and caused damage. From personal experience I can safely say that we tried just about everything you can think of. Sometimes it worked other times it didn't. We worked primarily with Dragon rounds in the TOW catagory and it takes a pretty steady hand to shoot one accurately, so moving around is not a good idea. Think too of any hardmounted weapon firing any projectile has the problem of 2 inches of elevation at the muzzle translates to 200 feet at range. Think of how much bouncing around a vehicle does in the field.

BTW, nzgunnie, congrats to the kiwis winning the eco challenge.

Mike

Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"

Rob Gronovius

Member since
December 2002
From: Fort Knox

Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, May 8, 2003 3:08 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by lssah

The Humvee with the Bushmaster is an advance scout vehicle. It would patrol ahead of an armor colum and bushwack the bad guy into giving chase, right into the friendly boresights of our guns...bang!

This would be difficult, see above post.

Rob Gronovius

Member since
December 2002
From: Fort Knox

Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, May 8, 2003 3:03 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by cader28

since this is the only current string about humvees, does the kit by tamiya with the bushmaster 25mm cannon actually exist? if so, in what capacity?

Yes, it did exist (note past tense). It was a "one of" prototype that was not accepted for use by the US military. The variant was then dismantled and the truck built into a standard version.

nsclcctl

Member since
May 2003
From: USA

Posted by nsclcctl on Thursday, May 8, 2003 12:14 PM

I would say with a fair degree of accuracy, not plastic ones!

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 12:05 PM

The Humvee with the Bushmaster is an advance scout vehicle. It would patrol ahead of an armor colum and bushwack the bad guy into giving chase, right into the friendly boresights of our guns...bang!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 11:53 AM

since this is the only current string about humvees, does the kit by tamiya with the bushmaster 25mm cannon actually exist? if so, in what capacity?

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 2:03 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cobrahistorian

...As a side note, its interesting to see that from all reports, Bradleys relied more on their 25mm cannon to kill tanks than their TOW systems in Iraq. The 25mm can fire on the move, while the vehicle would have to stop to fire the TOW.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 1:47 PM

I was just at the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds show here in Florida at Patrick Air Force Base area and there was a humvee equiped with a stinger missile luancher array-type-thing on the back of it, and the soldier showing it off said that it can fire while going about 65mph. He said that since they are "fire and forget" munitions, that they can be launched from just about wherever. Personally I'd like to see a demo video on that just cause it sounds cool!

Carlos.

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Rob Gronovius

Member since
December 2002
From: Fort Knox

Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 1:45 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by freelunch

What about the .50 cal machine gun? Can they be fired on the move?

Of course it can. Accuracy rates drop though.

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 1:07 PM

What about the .50 cal machine gun? Can they be fired on the move?

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 9:56 AM

Humvees are NOT capable of shooting on the run. You have to stop and fire. Personal experience.

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Cobrahistorian

Member since
December 2002
From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!

Posted by Cobrahistorian on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 6:49 AM

Gunnie,

I'd agree with you... those wires are REALLY thin and easily broken. Plus, with the bouncing of the Humvee, keeping that sight on target would be a bitch and a half. Humvees don't have the room for gyro stabilized weapons systems that Abrams and Bradleys have. Still, the TOW system is thirty-five years old and its still a viable weapons system. Impressive nonetheless!

As a side note, its interesting to see that from all reports, Bradleys relied more on their 25mm cannon to kill tanks than their TOW systems in Iraq. The 25mm can fire on the move, while the vehicle would have to stop to fire the TOW.

"1-6 is in hot"

nzgunnie

Member since
February 2003
From: New Zealand

Posted by nzgunnie on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 4:42 AM

Well I'm not sure, do they have gyro stabilised sites? The TOW is Optically tracked, Wire guided, so as long as the site can be kept on the target it will hit it, but it's not much good if you are bouncing around in the back of a humvee. This also would increase the chance of breaking the wire, or getting it snagged on passing obstacles, so in my humble opinion, no I doubt it.

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Can Humvees with TOW launchers fire on the move?

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 1:09 AM

I'm wondering if humvee crews can or have fired TOW's against ground positions like bunkers while on the move?

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Can Humvees with TOW launchers fire on the move?