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The most realistic tank movie

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The most realistic tank movie
Posted by Anthony on Wednesday, May 7, 2003 11:08 PM
OK folks. This question has nothing directly related to armor modeling, but I can't help it.

WHICH WAR MOVIE(S) HAS THE BEST AND MOST AUTHENTIC HARDWARE IN TERMS OF TANK?

I enjoy 'Saving Private Ryan', 'Kelly's Hero', 'The Longest Day' and 'A Bridge Too Far'. They are great, although the 'Tiger I' in 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'Kelly's Hero' hase a chassis of either a T-34 or Cromwell. I know I still miss out lots of movies. Please let me know. Thanks

BTW, I remember a Russian movie made in the 70's called 'The Great Battle'. The real T-34s were impressive. Anyone know about this movie?
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Posted by nzgunnie on Thursday, May 8, 2003 1:54 AM
Well it's not a movie, but 'Band of Brothers' had some pretty well made tanks in it.
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Posted by Cobrahistorian on Thursday, May 8, 2003 5:53 AM
I second NZGunnie's motion.
Aside from a real Jagdpanther, Marder and assorted smaller vehicles, the dummied up vehicles look good as well (StuG IV)
I was really impressed, and when that Jagdpanther came tearing through later in the series, my jaw hit the floor!

Other than that, SPR was good with the T-34/Tiger hybrids. "Stalingrad" was great with the T-34s. For modern stuff, "Courage Under Fire" was a pretty valiant attempt at taking on the Gulf War.

That's my $.02
"1-6 is in hot"
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Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, May 8, 2003 5:56 AM
The movie called "The Beast" with Jason Patric and Steven Bauer. It is about a Russian T-55 tank crew that gets lost in Afghanistan. Since it is filmed in Isreal, they use an Israeli variant of the T-55 called the Ti-67 (they captured Arabic T-55s and re-gunned them with US 105mm guns). Can't get too much more accurate than that.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 8:03 AM
Saving Private Ryan definately used T-34's for Tiger I's, I can tell from the front road wheel. Very nice job. Also it appears that they had a pair of Marders based on Czech Light Tank chassis. Most authentic movie I have ever seen regarding WW2 armor.
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Posted by Cobrahistorian on Thursday, May 8, 2003 9:29 AM
Major G,

How is "The Beast"? I've seen it in the video store a few times, but never picked it up. Sounds interesting.

"1-6 is in hot"
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 9:42 AM
I have to agree with the Major. I've got "The Beast" on tape and have watched it more times than I can count. As it is a movie about a tank in the Russian war in Afghanistan, it is a relatively original concept. Next time you stop by the video store, pick it up, you won't be disappointed.

Rick
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Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:09 AM
Jon, it is well worth the rental; however, Wal-Mart started carrying the DVD for only $5.88 recently. Yes, that's right, under six dollars. I'd pick it up even if you didn't have a DVD player since it is a real good reference for building a T-55 tank variant. The movie has a lot of guys that you'll recognize from TV or other movies but won't know their names right off (the Egyptian guy from the Mummy, one of the Baldwin brothers).

Good flick, interestingly they use US tank commands when operating the tank and the tank starts off with a 5 man crew, but the T-55 is a 4 man tank. Seems like there is a lot more space inside the turret than would be in a real tank. I'm also not certain of how the escape hatch works in a T-55, or if it even has one, but in the movie they use it like regular hatch.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:32 AM
I have to agree with nzgunnie. B of B was a great movie, and quite realistic according to friends and relatives who were in the war. I'll have to pick up "The Beast" if I can get some time to watch it.

So, I guess "Tank Girl" is out for most realistic?
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 2:54 PM
If somebody would make Harold Coyle's Team Yankee into a movie...that would kick some!!!

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Posted by nzgunnie on Thursday, May 8, 2003 3:28 PM
Don't quote me but...I'm pretty sure that according to the making of Band of Brothers (which featured the same props company that made the Tiger in SPR) that the tank they used for the Tiger in SPR was not a T34 but a British Cromwell (or perhaps Centurion), I've got it on DVD somewhere, just can't be bothered hunting for the scene with the tank makers. Interesting though, they used the British FV 403 (or somesuch) basically the pom equiv of the M113 for making most of the other tanks they had to make, the Stug was one I think. They even went to the trouble of completely re aranging the transmision from front to rear drive, and extended the hull to allow another set of road wheels to be fitted, as the chasis they were using was one set short for a Pzkpfw IV chasis.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 8, 2003 4:06 PM
Ok, I'm going to put this debate to rest: I just put in the Band of Bros. DVD "making of..." and went to the part where they talk about making the Tigers and the engineer who did it says they used the chassis of a T-34, and hey, it looks like a T-34 chassis to me! They even show the T-34 before they built the Tiger out of it. Sorry to burst your bubble Cobrahistorian, but the Jagdpanther is a mock up also....you can see it in the "making of..." documentary in the shop being built. Still cool, but fake...

PS - the Stug in B of B would be a Stug III (not IV), as it has 6 road wheels...
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Posted by kaleu on Thursday, May 8, 2003 5:39 PM
"The Winter War", "Stalingrad" and "The Cross of Iron" all have good T-34 action in them. Although the scene in "Stalingrad" where the german soldier gets half of his body blown off and he sits in the field and screams until he dies is a little too freaky for me. I have seen pictures of a T-55 dressed up as Tiger that has appeared in some t.v. shows, magazine articles (I'll have to look for the exact article) and was photographed sitting in a museum yard in the U.K. When it comes to modern armor in films, I like "Behind enemy lines" and the first five minutes of "Proof of Life".
Erik "Don't fruit the beer." Newest model buys: More than I care to think about. It's time for a support group.
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Thursday, May 8, 2003 10:06 PM
Gendarme,

Firstly, drop the hostile attitude. Its just funny when the French get riled up. Secondly, while many of the vehicles in the movie were mockups, the Jagdpanther, and two Marders were original. They came from the British Museum collection. I'm sorry if I didn't take time to count the road wheels on the StuGs, they were mockups and were visible as such, so calling it a Stug III as opposed to a StuG IV is equally as ludicrous, because IT ISN'T EITHER OF THEM.

Yes, the Tiger is built on a T-34 chassis. Just like the ones in Kelly's Heroes. The Cromwell in the movie was used by the Brits during Market Garden, and it was quite the nice vehicle.

Now, back to civility.
"1-6 is in hot"
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Posted by renarts on Thursday, May 8, 2003 11:23 PM
O.K. you guys can never go to nitpickers.com. Wink [;)]
Cross of Iron had some good T-34's in it.
How far back can we go? There was an episode of twighlight zone that had a Lee or a Stuart in it. (somebody help me out, it was the episode about the tankers getting lost and showing up at the little big horn).Question [?]
Other than that, I would have to say BoB and SPR had the best vehicle reps for hollywood. Regardless of what they were built on.
Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, May 9, 2003 12:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Anthony
WHICH WAR MOVIE(S) HAS THE BEST AND MOST AUTHENTIC HARDWARE IN TERMS OF TANK?

Guys, when answering Anthony's excellent original question, I think it applies to using authentic tanks and not mock ups. That's why I used the Beast movie as an example since the actual vehicle used was the same type as the vehicle it was supposed to portray. Unlike a movie like Patton where M-47s represent Tigers, or T-34 dressed up to look like Tigers.

Another great tank movie is the Humphrey Bogart movie called Sahara. It is about an M3 Lee that is separated from the rest of the US forces during the initial stages of our involvement in North Africa. Great shots of the Lee and since the movie was made in the early 1940s (1943?), the tank is as authentic as you can get in a movie, although they do use a US M3 Half-track to represent a German half-track.
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Posted by renarts on Friday, May 9, 2003 6:02 PM
Good point. o.k. then, Cross of Iron, the Beast and Sahara. (Forgot about that one.)

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Posted by shermanfreak on Friday, May 9, 2003 6:59 PM
I have to go with "A Bridge Too Far".
At least the Allied side anyways.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
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Posted by rdxpress on Friday, May 9, 2003 9:59 PM
Hey All,
The twlight zone episode was an M-5 Stuart. My son likes M-3 Lees so
now I have to hunt the Bogart Movie,(will probly have to buy it!)
Good Hunting,
rdxpress
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 10, 2003 1:30 AM
The Beast is an excelent film, I don't know if we needed to see the Afgan getting run over but. The opening seen with all the tanks crossing the desert was prety cool but. As far as fakes are concernd "WHO CARES" as long as they look the same. Sure it would be nice to see a real Tiger but I don't think that is going to happen. I would love o see a film about "The Battle of Kursk" That would be awesome. Dose anyone know if there are any films that have a Panzer IV in them?

Has anyone seen a film called "The Ogre" it had John Malkavich (I'm sure I spelt that wrong) he was a French solider caught by the Germans, but ended up joing them and working in a Hitler Youth school. Near the end of the film they school gets attcked by a couple of T-34's. Interesting film, and very strange aswell.
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Posted by Cobrahistorian on Saturday, May 10, 2003 8:04 AM
Hey, now that I think of it, what about Enemy at the Gates? Of course it was in the movie for just a few minutes, but from what I'd heard the Pz III was a real one.

Major G, I took your advice and picked up "The Beast" at Wal Mart. Well worth the $5! GOOD MOVIE! Interesting seeing a thin George Dzundza....

"1-6 is in hot"
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Posted by renarts on Saturday, May 10, 2003 11:19 AM
thanks rdxpress, I can sleep now.....
Anthony, can we get a ruling?
Is it most authentic? as in no substitutions/mock-ups etc. or just best attempt at most authentic, as in best representation or depiction of a tank in a motion picture. (He's not a real panzer but he plays one on t.v.)

Do the Shermans in Sands of Iwo Jima count?
How 'bout the Sherman in "The Tank" with James Garner ?

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, May 11, 2003 11:07 AM
I have to agree "The Beast" is good. I also like a more obscure movie "Their's is the Glory". It is the story of the Brits at Arnheim, and is a B&W Docudrama. What is outstanding is that it was filmed right after the war, the extras are the actual survivors, and they have for real Panthers in it. In fact, they have a shot of a paratrooper bagging one with a PIAT. Very cool.
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Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, May 11, 2003 9:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by rdxpress

Hey All,
The twlight zone episode was an M-5 Stuart. My son likes M-3 Lees so
now I have to hunt the Bogart Movie,(will probly have to buy it!)
Good Hunting,
rdxpress

Found mine at a K-Mart for $2.99 (VHS).
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 2:19 AM
To put my USMC 2 cents in I say FMJ Full Metal Jacket where the M48's were M48's as was a standard issue tank for the USMC during the war!

B of B was good for alot of mock-ups but hey who cares it was a Army film......hehehe!

Sands of Iwo jima was pretty good too if I remember right as the tanks were fairly accurate.

as what I saw in windtalkers as well!
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:50 AM
Enemy at the Gates had some good halftracks, as well as a Panzer 38T, I think. Other wise, I agree with Full Metal Jacket. Platoon had some accurate M113s, as well.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 11:52 AM
Oh, and Windtalkers had a couple of Shermans built up as Marine Corps tanks, they looked pretty good.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:50 PM
Finally, Black Hawk Down had real Humvees. Do they count?
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Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 10:42 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by semprfish

To put my USMC 2 cents in I say FMJ Full Metal Jacket where the M48's were M48's as was a standard issue tank for the USMC during the war!
Actually, they used M41 Walker Bulldogs. I watched that movie about 50 times this past winter. It was the only movie we had in the unit gym and I watched it every day I ran on the treadmill in 35-45 minute spurts. Would just hit play on the VCR and start watching where the last person ended. The R.Lee Ermey scenes still crack me up, I love the first half of that movie.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 15, 2003 5:12 AM
I think that the use of "Shermans" and other American tanks doesn't realy count as there have always been and still are a many running and the US military is often willing to help out (cheap recroutment LOL). Where as WWII German tanks are very few running today or even after the war. But seeing a "Stuart" or "Lee" would be prety cool as they are fairly rear.

By the way what was the tank in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"? To me it looks like a WWI Britsh tank that was modified with a turret on it. I also always laugh when I see Africa Corps symbols and uniorms in that film when it is set in 1938, oh and the MP-40s. But it is still a cool film and I shouldn't be so perdantic.

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