Pix and some news from "Tamiya Showcase" in Osaka (new 1/48 Tiger & Sherman)

Do you think we need a new scale? Is it to fit in with aircraft scales or are there significant advantages i.e. cheaper kits?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jeff Gunn Do you think we need a new scale? Is it to fit in with aircraft scales or are there significant advantages i.e. cheaper kits?

Well, personally, I'm not thrilled with 1/48 scale armor, but previously Mr. Tamiya said that the whole point of the new 1/48 line was to bring the highest quality kits to the consumer at lower prices. He said that to continue improving the detail and quality of Tamiya kits in 1/35 scale would result in even more expensive kits (just look around on this website and others to hear the continuous complaints of how expensive Tamiya kits are), so the decision was made at Tamiya to bring that same level of detail and quality down to 1/48 scale, where the smaller size means lower prices.

This isn't conjecture on my part, by the way, this is what I heard Mr. Tamiya say himself.

So there we have it...Tamiya now hopes to create a new "standard" armor scale, in 1/48.

They're certainly beautiful kits, to be sure, but I just like my armor bigger than that.

I have to say, I love the 1/48th scales. I am currently working on Tamiya's 1/48th scale Kubelwagen and the detail ia very surprising. I also bought the Kettenkraft for the stowage and it is also molded well. I can't wait to get my hands on the Tiger I.

Cheers

Mo

I'm with Moses on this one. I grew up building the old Aurora 1/48 scale tanks and still have many of them. I loved the Bandai kits when I first discovered them and try to grab all the ones I can find whether they are in a Bandai, Fuman, Frog or Academy box.

These kits have already made the prices on Bandai/Frog/Fuman kits come down on eBay. Why pay $30+ for a Bandai Jeep when a miniaturized version of Tamiya's outstanding 1/35 scale one is coming for around $15?

I bought the Kettenkraftrad with trailer and Goliath. Great looking kit! This is going to be the year of the re-birth of 1/48 scale armor!

Come on Tamiya, how about your new M1A2 in 1/48 scale? I'd buy half a dozen.

Personally, I'm disappointed, but not surprised. When I got back into modeling, about a year and a half ago, my genre of choice was WWII armor and vehicles while my scale of choice was 1/35. It had become quite obvious that Dragon, Academy, and even a couple other manufacturers were beginning to produce 1/35 kits that had just as much quality (I'm speaking only of molding here) as Tamiya and doing so at a considerably cheaper price. Since my goal remains to build every vehicle and varient that ever fought in WWII in 1/35 scale, I suppose that the other manufacturers will be getting my money for the forseeable future.

Enjoy your modeling...

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius This is going to be the year of the re-birth of 1/48 scale armor!

I'm sure Mr. Tamiya is banking on that!

I wonder if they will do any modern armor. The only other release I've heard mentioned so far is a StuG. III.

How about an MBT-70?

I would like to see a new MBT-70. I have four of the Aurora ones, two original tooled ones and two retooled ones.

As far as losing sales, I think Tamiya has realized that the 1/35 scale market is over saturated. As stated, Dragon produces 3-4+ variants of a given vehicle where Tamiya will only produce one or two and at a much cheaper price. Hard to keep up with Dragon's volume releases.

When Tamiya completely retools or creates a kit from scratch, it tends to cost a lot of money. Their quality is high and so is their price. As far as losing sales, people will buy a Tamiya product even if there is a better one on the shelf sitting next to it. I don't know why this is. I'm even guilty of it. I was looking for a model of the new VW Beetle and chose Tamiya over Revell of Germany. Great kit, but it was slightly more.

But I digress. Yes J-Hulk, I'd love to see them tool down their HMMWV, M113A2/A3, M1A1/A2, M2A2 into 1/48 scale.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius But I digress. Yes J-Hulk, I'd love to see them tool down their HMMWV, M113A2/A3, M1A1/A2, M2A2 into 1/48 scale.

Well, Mr. Tamiya did say there will be approximately twenty new 1/48 kit releases in the next year, so perhaps there is hope for modern armor, too!

hi folks,since i have a prolem building 1;35 scale i dont think i will be able to do the 1;48 .i would go to 1;24 or larger.just my worth.

gdarwin[roy]

have a good day all

QUOTE: Originally posted by Foster7155 Personally, I'm disappointed, but not surprised. When I got back into modeling, about a year and a half ago, my genre of choice was WWII armor and vehicles while my scale of choice was 1/35. It had become quite obvious that Dragon, Academy, and even a couple other manufacturers were beginning to produce 1/35 kits that had just as much quality (I'm speaking only of molding here) as Tamiya and doing so at a considerably cheaper price. Since my goal remains to build every vehicle and varient that ever fought in WWII in 1/35 scale, I suppose that the other manufacturers will be getting my money for the forseeable future. Enjoy your modeling...

Me too. I'm not wandering off into 1/48 scale. the pieces can be tiny enough even in 1/35.

i may not do many of them but the tiger 1 may work for something i am planning. i will have to look into it.


joe

1/48

It will make a great boon for mixing aircraft and vehicles but thats the only advantage I see to it. I really hope that 1/48 isn't the wave of the future.

1/35 or bigger for me.

I admit though, it will be interesting to see if the rest of the mfr.s either exploit the void left by Tamiya or try and jump on board with the 1/48.

Meh, as usual the Shermans are slab-sided. Am I the only M4A1 lover in the universe?

I don't know how I feel about this. I liked the idea of things like jeeps, kettens, and kubelwagens because I thought they were accessories for aircraft dioramas. I like the level of detail in 1/35 scale, but I also live in a cramped apartment, and the smaller footprint of 1/48 scale is tempting. I guess I'll give it a try and see what happens.

I do think aftermarket options will be a nonissue. If people buy the 1/48 scale kits, AM companies will see the opportunity of jumping into a new market, and produce accessories for them.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of combo (tank & aircraft) diorama ideas are people having? I don't see much potential there, other than the aforesaid accessory concept. How often would you see a tank on an airfield, or a Tomahawk taxiing past a tank park? Tank vs aircraft combat usually takes place at ranges that would be inconvenient for a diorama... But then, just because I don't see much potential, it doesn't mean there isn't any. Maybe I just lack sufficient imagination.


M.

Hey Marian,

-Famous photo of a German column rolling past a downed allied plane at Normandy. The invasion striped wing hung up in a tree and the rest of the wreckage along the side of the road. I think Tamiya uses this photo as a reference for a diorama in their catalog.
-Gliders and jeeps.
-The usual kettens, kubels, R75's and light tanks along airfields.
-Wonderful photo of a captured Japanese 95 parked at an allied airfield in an issue of Allied & Axis. You see a couple of US aircraft in the background.
-88's in flak positions on the edges of airfileds along with sdkfz 11's.
-Downed planes from both sides at Kursk.
-Great photo of a sdkfz 223 being loaded into the German ME321 or Gotha 242.
-Wirbelwinds at Luftwaffe fields
-Hummv's and Blackhawks
-Apaches and Bulldogs
-Opel fuel trucks and ME's
-Deuce and a halfs and B26's
-I have a great photo of an aussie standing on his bren gun carrier and a B26 tail gunner yacking at each other.
-I've seen a couple of pics of russian T-34's in amongst ME's and FW hidden under the trees as the airfields were overun. Same with American vehicles like M8 greyhounds and Shermans.

All would make very interesting vignettes and dioramas for those inclined to work in that scale. I think no one has put the two together more often is because the scales were not available to do so. But as they become more popular, I bet you see more and more of this type of thing. Vignettes of Russian planes doing low fly bys over T-34's at Kursk on their way to pound german armor have been the subject of more than one photo. And in the past I've seen several threads here on this forum trying to either find a way to get them to fit or use forced perspective in an attempt to combine the two. Now they don't need to. WW2 Modelmaker has a very cool WW1 diorama by Per Olav Lund that has a german airplane flying over the trenches and includes figures, a horse, and a tank. It is very awsome. Only a matter of time for someone to do something similar for a WW2 or other vignette using these new scaled vehicles and future releases.

And the piece de resitance......Model shipyard makes a 1/48 scale LST 542...I'm talking 81" of pure hit the beaches of Normandy with a whole tank platoon diorama screaming to be done.

As for the potential of a new market for the PE mfr's or resin after market, I thought about that too, and thought wow, what a gold mine, but then again, its such a smaller scale so the need for that toype of detail that they cater too might not be there as well as that is an awful lot of retool and new product line to get into and carry stock for. I suppose someone will get into it though.

I would be interested in something modern in that scale.

I can see some established aircraft modelers, who build 1/48 scale aircraft anyway, possibly picking up some 1/48 scale vehicles to make a few dioramas. However, I think it's less likely that the established 1/35 armor modeler will not only build some 1/48 scale aircraft, which they normally would not build, but also change their armor scale at the same time. Some will do it, but I don't think that many will.

I can understand Tamiya's explaination of the reasons behind this move, but I also have some doubts as to its complete accuracy. Tamiya would never come right out and say, "we can't produce 1/35 scale armor and sell it at the same price that (insert manufacturer here) is able to do." It's that whole "save face" thing. I honestly believe that because Tamiya no longer has the monopoly on the best people, equipment, and practices, they are actually avoiding head-to-head competition in favor of moving to an area that others aren't using.

Enjoy your modeling...

i like tamiya for their quality but they are trying my patience with all this 1/48th stuff

personally, i think most of the pro-1/48 and pro-tamiya talk above is just by people who've been taken in by the tamiya marketing machine.

tamiya must be pretty desperate as they are clearly getting their butts kicked by trumpeter and dragon in the armour dept and probably hasegawa with aircraft.

as i said, i like their stuff but they strike me as a company resting on their laurels, living on former glories etc etc

but then again, that's just cynical old me

are there any military figures coming out in 1/48?

The cost of labor is so much higher in Japan than China, that the price is no doubt factored into the kit price. Hence Tamiya has an impossible task of trying to compete with Dragon and so on. Thank goodness for Dragon and some of the other companies to continue to feed our armor appetites in 1/35. I for one don't mind paying less for quality kits that are just as good as Tamiya is.

Maybe it's time for Tamiya to invest in a factory in the U.S. to get on the band wagon. It seems that other manufactures (Japanese) have done so to keep their profits in line plus I do think that shipping would be easier and customer service could be reorganized into a North-American field office to reduce action time just my thoughts.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman The cost of labor is so much higher in Japan than China, that the price is no doubt factored into the kit price. Hence Tamiya has an impossible task of trying to compete with Dragon and so on. Thank goodness for Dragon and some of the other companies to continue to feed our armor appetites in 1/35. I for one don't mind paying less for quality kits that are just as good as Tamiya is.

tigerman
with you all the way there!
basically you either adapt or ecome extinct...
tamiyasaurus anyone??[:0]

Its time that someone recognized that there may well be a market for 1/48th armor. I for one look forward to eventually having a 1/48th Marder or just maybe at long last, a 1/48th 88 MM flak gun. I only hope the price doesn't end up too high for my funding.

QUOTE: Originally posted by splash32 Its time that someone recognized that there may well be a market for 1/48th armor. I for one look forward to eventually having a 1/48th Marder or just maybe at long last, a 1/48th 88 MM flak gun. I only hope the price doesn't end up too high for my funding.

Ahhh......with Mr Tamiya, the prices of his 1/48 scale may be quite comparible with say Dragon's 1/35 offerings. Hmmmm, bigger or smaller...........

QUOTE: Originally posted by Foster7155 I can understand Tamiya's explaination of the reasons behind this move, but I also have some doubts as to its complete accuracy. Tamiya would never come right out and say, "we can't produce 1/35 scale armor and sell it at the same price that (insert manufacturer here) is able to do." It's that whole "save face" thing. I honestly believe that because Tamiya no longer has the monopoly on the best people, equipment, and practices, they are actually avoiding head-to-head competition in favor of moving to an area that others aren't using.

Ding!Ding!

Personally, I think that's the most likely situation. I work for a manuf. company (admittedly, it's not plastic kits), and I have a hard time believing that the cost to produce a 1/35 scale kit will be significantly different than a 1/48 scale kit. It's just plastic for crying-out-loud (I can't see how the labour can be of any significant difference)!! Most of the cost has to be in the development/tooling, marketing and distribution areas. If you don't get over a magic 'volume' threshold, the profits disappear. Raising the prices of the kits likely has less to do with the per unit manufacturing cost, and more to do with an erroding market share. By creating an entirely new 'market', Tamiya is almost assured 100% share. Personally, I think it's almost genious -- they're banking on taking some of the 1/35 market/builders with them, and also banking on pulling some of the 1/48 aircraft builders into the new armour scale. They're rolling the dice on just how big this new market will be...

Murray

As far as pricing goes, the Tiger will be 1,800 yen (about $17 USD) and the Sherman will be 1,600 yen (about $15 USD) here in Japan. That's about half the price of their latest 1/35 offerings.

The Tiger will be released this month here and in December overseas, while the Sherman will be released in December here and January overseas.

If the other 1/48 releases from Tamiya are any indication, there is a "slight" savings, but nothing dramatic. All of these prices are from one web site:

The Tamiya 1/48 Kettenkraftrad w/goliath $11.20
The Dragon 1/35 Kettenkraft w/puppchen $15.00

The Tamiya 1/48 Type 82 Kubelwagen $11.20
The Italeri 1/35 DAK Kubelwagen $12.95
The Dragon 1/35 DAK Kubelwagon w/figures $19.50

The Tamiya 1/48 Kubelwagen $10.85
The Dragon 1/35 Kubelwagen w/cold weather starter $16.45

Skybow is also releasing a couple of Tigers in 48th.
Review over on PMMS.
http://pmms.webace.com.au/newkitnews/newf.htm

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman The cost of labor is so much higher in Japan than China, that the price is no doubt factored into the kit price. Hence Tamiya has an impossible task of trying to compete with Dragon and so on. Thank goodness for Dragon and some of the other companies to continue to feed our armor appetites in 1/35. I for one don't mind paying less for quality kits that are just as good as Tamiya is.

Actually many 1/35 kits of Tamiya are already produced here but since the labor cost in China is still much much cheaper (by about 4-5 times) than the labor costs here, I still don't see Tamiya's price going to be more competitive than that of Dragon's.

I think the main source of savings would be in the volume of plastic and cardboard required as research, mold preparation and factory operation cost would be about the same.

I'm betting that their 1/48 prices will not be substantially different than their current competitor's 1/35 prices. It's a much more diverse market and Tamiya will continue to offer 1/35 but won't be rolling out anything new. This leaves the door open for Dragon, Academy, and Trumpeter to compete with each other for new 1/35 offerings and consequently, keep prices at their current levels. Tamiya on the other hand will have virtually 0 competition in the 1/48 arena and can set their prices as they wish and the market will bear. Time will tell but I seriously doubt they will be able to establish enough critical mass to make this worthwhile as a longterm deal. They've been outpriced and outcompeted in the 1/35 arena and trying to carve out a new empire in the 1/48 genre is very risky indeed. Genius or folly, it's too early to tell.