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Pz IV shurtzen question

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  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Pz IV shurtzen question
Posted by wipw on Friday, November 19, 2004 4:11 PM
Anybody have a sure-fire way to get the turret shurtzen brackets and plates lined up correctly? I don't want to glue the plates to the brackets until after I get the paint on. (This is for the DML IV J kit.)

Thanks
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Friday, November 19, 2004 4:33 PM
This is a similar problem that I had with the Stug schurzen. The solution I came up with was to install the brackets first and then test-fit the plates as I went along to make sure they lined up properly. I then used scotch tape to hold them together in the proper alignment, airbrushed and camoed the exterior side to get the pattern and then basecoated the interior surface. After all that, they were mounted permanently. You may not be able to exactly do the same with the turret plates but a little modification or adaptation and it should do the trick.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Friday, November 19, 2004 4:44 PM
Thanks, Bill. I'll see what happens.
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Friday, November 19, 2004 5:48 PM
Are we talking PE. Confused [%-)]

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 19, 2004 6:35 PM
Bill, I presume that the DML schurtzen come in sections - fronts, access doors, rear curve etc. The easiest way I found on my old Tamiya Ausf H was to use a strip of thin cardboard (the type you buy for kids posters and craft projects) and double sided tape. If you cut a strip of cardboard roughly the same height as the schurtzen, you can use one edge of the strip as a guide to get all the schurtzen plates level at the bottom. The double sided tape holds them snug and prevents movement. Glueing them together now is an option, but I chose to do it just before painting - read on.

Glue on the rearmost hangers to the turret. Using the schurtzen as a guide for the correct angle and position of the hangers to make sure the bottom will be level, line them up right, then carefully take away the schurtzen. Leave the hangers to dry over night. Then next day glue on the next forward set of hangers and using the schurtzen again, but with a little blu-tack on the rear hangers to help hold the rear plate in place. Line the second set of hangers up correctly, remove the schurtzen and let dry. Keep doing this and you will end up with the hangers all in the correct place to take the schurtzen at the correct angle and keeping the bottom level.

Then you can paint the turret and brackets and the inside of the schurtzen (still attached to the card board) after droping a tiny bit of cyano into the schurtzen joins if not already glued. Then fit the schurtzen to the hangers, again starting at the rear, using a good cyano making sure it lines up. When the cyano has fully set CAREFULLY remove the cardboard and tape - rest the turret on a cushion or something and hold the section of Schurtzen that you are peeling the tape off, holding each subsequent section as you go. Voila, just paint the outside of the schurtzen then add camo to the vehicle (they were camo'd with the schurtzen in place).

Fidelly but worked a treat. You could probably remove the cardborad and tape before fitting the schurtzen to the hangers, but I didn't think of that until after I glued mine onDunce [D)]
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Saturday, November 20, 2004 11:03 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman

Are we talking PE. Confused [%-)]


Yep. Although I think the Tamiya may provide plastic pieces, several AM sets out there that better replicate them in PE. The Schurzen plates were only about 5mm in thickness, supposed to be just enough to defeat hollow-charge AT and Panzerfaust/Schreck rounds by having them detonate away from the hull and main armor.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Monday, November 22, 2004 10:18 AM
[quote[ just paint the outside of the schurtzen then add camo to the vehicle (they were camo'd with the schurtzen in place).


Thanks, Peter. Sounds like you've got quite a method. I managed to get the rear brackets on with little problem. I taped (on both sides of the plates) the plates together and that lined everything up enough to get the front two brackets on each side. I wish I would have read your post first. Using cardboard is brilliant! I'll remember that for next time. I assume from what you said above that the turret behind the shurtzen plates were not camoed, then? That should make things a bit easier! Thanks again.

QUOTE: Are we talking PE.


Nope, I'm talking about the plastic, in the kit, shurtzen plates for the turret. I don't know how the Tamiya look, but on the DML, they aren't too bad. They've thinned the edges and I took them down a little more. PE would have looked better, but I didn't see a set when I was buying for this kit. (Guess I didn't look, either!)

I did buy a set of Eduard PE for the hull "screen door" shurtzen. It looks fantastic! I put the first set of pe brackets on last night. What fun. I hope to post pics soon.

I am doing this for erock's (or was it edog's??) open ended, PZ IV build. I haven't seen anything posted about that group for quite a while, and I don't have the link anymore, either. But, it's coming along pretty well.
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 1:52 AM
Bill, the crews painted the vehicles in the field and sure as heck didn't remove the schurtzen to do a nice neat job. They usually did paint the turret and hull sides, but only to a point, basically where they could get the spray gun in place without being a contortionist. The camo in there was rough as blazes, and mucho overspray...... makes our lives so much easier.

The paint was on ration a lot of the time, so many crews only had a small amount and therefore limited the camoing to what would be seen from a distance or the air (the shortage of paint was one reason German Regs said not to paint the roadwheels). It is also why some vehicles only have a light spray of colour.

In the end, do what you want, as no one can say you are wrong anyway.

Cheers
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:59 AM
Thank you, Sir Peter. It's coming along. I'm working on the pe shurzen mounting brackets for the hull now. They're not too bad, but I'm just NOT a good pe person.

I hope to post some wip pictures soon.

Have a nice spring day. It's getting cold in this part of the world!
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 4:13 PM
Bill, is there such a thing as a good PE person? We all have our days, some just more than others. So far this month I have broken the tool clamp handles of 3 of Eduards Zoom German set. (These are all in one and I thought I'd give them a go as Aber's 3 piece ones can drive us nuts (as you well know), but the handle on the Zoom ones is very fragile and it doesn't take much to send it West), lost 2 clamps off my Centaur during dry brushing (these were scratchbuilt so I had to go back and make them up again-grrr) and have put a DML (Kirin) set of nickel etch back in the Grille's box for another day (that stuff does not like to be bent). Ah, the 60/70's...no etch, no expectations.

We are having a bit of an early Summer here at the moment. Last week we had days 7 degrees Centigrade higher than average with high humidity. We are expecting a nice 26 degree C day today, which is about average. Good day for spray painting models, but the indy links on the Stug 3 for the GB are not finished yet.

Yep, I'm drilling out DML guidehorns and link loops for the Tamiya Ausf G kit, cause the Tamiya tracks were shot (pulled off the sprue by the guy I bought the kit from, and he pulled chunks off the sides). Anyway, the Tamiya rubber tracks had solid guidehorns, wrong type for an Early. Before you say it, yes I did escape from the rubber room, that those nice men with the white jacket took me to, after I drilled out the DML Panther Ausf D indy links for that GB build. Wow, was that really a year ago!!!

Looking forward to the pics. Have fun.

PS. The Panzer IV thread is in the Group build section. Just click on the Sticky on page one of the armour forum, then click on the Panzer IV topic. That will take you to page one, then just click on last, and work your way back as far as you want to go. Check out the other GB's while you are there, The Sherman GB is still there!!!!
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 4:26 PM
Thanks, Peter. Always nice to hear from you.

I hate to admit it, but I drilled out the area on the edge of the links for all of the Pv IV links. And, stupid me, I did it after the links were all assembled into the track runs. What fun!! It wouldn't have been too bad had I done it when they were still on the sprues, or even before being glued up. But I decided to do it after I had them glued together and molded onto the wheels. (Still one attached link at the rear of each of the idler wheels.) But I didn't do the guide horns. I couldn't find a picture that showed just how the were drilled out. Doing the edges of the links gives them a kind of "lacy" look. I will go take a look at the GB forum. I haven't been there yet. I should have, I guess. Not really sure why I didn't. Just don't like the idea of having to go to yet another forum, I guess.

Take care;

Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 9:49 AM
I've posted some pics on the group build, if anyone is interested in seeing them.
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 12:09 PM
I think you have what sounds to be some excellent advice above, I'm only here to say I took a look at the pics and your IV is coming along beautifully Bill.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:31 PM
Yeah the Kit is coming along nicely Bill. Is this the re-tooled DML Kit #6080 or an earlier one? The 6080 is cheap at my LHS and I have been seriously thinking of buying it and tossing away the old Tamiya ausf H I am still struggling with. I'll wait till I see your comments on the schurtzen before considering acquiring those.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:40 PM
Wow, Peter, now that's a question. I don't know (in fact didn't knw) DML had retooled the IV J. I bought mine last summer, so it's probably the new one, but I don't really know. There are some definate fit problems (not really any major ones, though) with this kit. And, as illuded to above, a few mistakes in the instructions. I notice Eduard has a $20 PE set out for it. I'm tempted to get it, but would only use the tool clamps, etc. Although, it does include the shurzen, too. It doesn't look like the "bed spring" shurzen is as nice as the set I bought, but the one I got has nothing but the "bed springs" in it and sells for more than this entire set goes for. I think the "full" set is a '98 issue, so is probably not up to Eduards current standards.
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
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