Tank Hit with a mortor?

that was some crazy events! I alsways wondered if a tank could hit a plane! thanks for those, they were very fun to read.
Now days i could see it being easier because of technology, but in WWII It seems like it would be pretty hard.

Well eric there have been some pretty crazy things happen in all the wars. But if you just look at the many variables there are in order for some of that stuff to happen you cannot do anything but realize how unlikely it would be that you could ever recreate that same event.

But getting back to morter and arty rounds impacting on a tank. Now days it isnt that remote a possibility. If you have a good forward oberver it is very possible to walk rounds into something as small as a tank. I would hope the tankers would have enough common sense to get the hell out of there when the first rounds started falling.

Tanks would be peppered with artillery whenever possible. The odds of an artillery shell or mortar shell hitting atop one doesn't seem that remote to me. Consider these unlikey but supposedly true WW2 anecdotes:

(by B Cooper, "Death Traps")
1) An M4 Sherman was disabled when a high velocity round (probably AT) came right through the length of the 75mm Sherman gun tube. The breech happened to be open and the round exploded, killing all three turret crew.

2) An American heavy bomber at about 10,000 feet (B17 or B24) exploded overhead when hit by German flak. Its tail section spun earthward, crashing near Cooper's unit. Inside was the unconcious but uninjured tail gunner.


(by D Loza, "Commanding the Red Army's Shermans").

3) During a Jabo stafing attack, a German 20mm shell entered through another Sheman 75mm gun tube. The shrapnel of the 20 mm shell killed an NCO inside the Sherman's turret

4) A suicide kamikaze attack on a Soviet armored column during the last days of WW2. The lead kamikaze fighter dove right into the glacis of the lead Sherman! Inside the "emcha", a stunned but uninjured Russian driver. The plane was obliterated -- the Sherman was still functional! Two other fighters dove into a building where Russians had sought shelter, three others were shot down by Russian AA fire. No Russian casualties besides the shaken Russian driver. Loza said that several of the Japanese planes had a woman along with male pilots. Loza conjectured that they were girlfriends/wives of the desparate Japanese kamikaze pilots.

5) <<this is the most amazing, true or not?>>> Ju88 medium bombers were circling overhead where a group of Soviet M4s were seeking cover under some trees. Knowing that when a tank emerged, the Ju88s' tactic would be to dive onto the lone target, one Soviet tank commander charged out of the tree cover towards the upward slope of a hill. Once on the slope he raised his gun to maximum elevation, gave the order to fire an HE round. It obliterated the Ju88 diving towards it. The rest of the 88s scattered and left the scene.

Very interesting reading, to say the least!

As an old Cold-War mortarman, all I can say is the only mortar rounds we intentialy fired at tanks were VT (variable timed) or PROX (proximity) fused HE rounds . Both are airburst shrapnel rounds to make the crew "button-up", limiting their visibility so our TOW anti-tank crews could engage them. Mortar rounds still can't kill tanks. We also shot WP (white phosphorus) at tanks to blind them & hopefully set a T-62's external fuel drums on fire. I would bet WW2 mortar crews did likewise.

QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelreenactor So, its possible, might just shock the crew but its possible. I do agree with you guys, if it ever happend that would be one hell of a shot. thanks for the info guys!

I rather imagine that only the battle-hardened tanker would not flinch from the sounds of a mortar round impacting and exploding off his tank regardless of were the impact was! Hard not to wonder if the next impact is from an enemy high velocity-shell. Not for the faint of heart or weak bladder! Pardon me I have to go clean up my mess!

Glenn

So, its possible, might just shock the crew but its possible. I do agree with you guys, if it ever happend that would be one hell of a shot.
thanks for the info guys!

Well just to answer some questions here, the odds were actually quite big and it happened regulary. In Tigers in the mud By Tiger comander Otto Carius , In the combat history of Schwere panzerabteilung 503 and in the combat history of schwere panzerabteilung 508 it is desribed by many crew members that the Tiger attracted artillery fire of all calibers whenever it showed up on the batle field. If the artillery fire was heavy the crew would immediately change positions but if was mostly small caliber and mortars they would remain in position, in other words they did not take mortar fire seriously, never the less they would still change position regulary to avoid a lucky shot knoking off a track or hiting the engine deck and damaging the radiators.

I was out at the mortar range the other week, and we were hanging 120mm rds. According to the crews there, even a 60mm mortar, well placed can knock off a tread and if it lands on top, it can scramble the insides (i.e. targeting computer, etc) pretty good, pretty much killing the tank by taking away its ability to move and shoot accurately. As for a 120mm, "according to the crews" it would penetrate the top armor enough to either penetrate and blow up the tank or cause enough blast to kill the crew. Although I have found, thoes who operate their weapon systems always have inflated ideas about waht they can do, but for what it is worth, that is what the guys who hang the rounds claim their weapons can do.

Just my informed opinion, but I think it depends on the size of the round, the exact location it strikes, and the tank involved. Regardless of these factors, a round detonating on the top of a tank would have a very slim chance of completely disabling the vehicle. It could happen, but it would be an extremely lucky shot. It could however have an effect on the personnel inside. Even an 82mm mortor round has quite a bit of concusive force and the blast itself could stun some of the crew, cause temporary deafness, or even burst eardrums...once again, depending on the exact location of the explosion. It was far more common for motar shells to damage the tracks or running gear of a tank. This was just as effective as a direct hit because it rendered the vehicle immobile.

Have to agree with everyone else (and by tank I assume you mean Tiger or some other form of MBT) that if a mortar round did impact on the roof, it would be highly unlikely to penetrate as mortar rounds are usually HE. It was not an uncommon tactic to use rolling barrages though against a tank assault in order to force the tanks to "button up" and thereby lose a great deal of their overall vision and awareness of what was happening on the battlefield.

i dont know about a mortor but during oif an artillery round slammed directly into the top of a usmc halftrac. it killed the 2 crew members but sustained the explosion preventing it from killing everyone outside the vehicle. just so happens all the commanders were outside that vehicle at the time. but as far as a mortor round i'd have to agree with everone else...the odds!

Unless the tank is stationary, like disabled, what would be the odds of a mortar round hitting the tank at all, let alone doing any real damage? Not saying it's impossible, just not very likely.

Glenn

There are a lot of varibles to consider, such as fuse setting and size of projectile, just to mention a couple. A mortar round isn't normally designed to defeat armor, but it's possible some spalling would occur inside the tank, damage to external stowage, machine guns and optics wound certainly be a concern. Most likely, unless the round was 120mm or bigger, damage inside the tank would be minimal.

thats a good question. the odds of that happening would be slim, but by no means impossible.