Tamiya thank you Tamiya

Dragon's new offering are very nice, but usually have a lot more pieces. That said, they are cheaper and there are usually some PE and other goodies thrown in. I also like Tamiya's kits and yes, even with rubber band tracks

The Tamiya Pershing was GREAT to build...... perfect fit, had a ball.... The suspension pulled my chain a little, but it was worth it..... Tamiya does have some great kits.... I don't have as much experience with Dragon, but I'm turning down that road.

Tamiya's latest offerings are no doubt easier to build, they know it and charge you for every penny they can wring from you as a result. Unfortunately, they've also chosen to rest on their laurels and aren't planning any new releases/expansion to their 1/35 line for the near future. They can also give you some nasty surprises if you get one of their older kits and expect it to meet the same standards. They don't tell you on the box "older release" so do your homework on that regard.

Dragon has it's gives and takes. Personally I prefer them over Tamiya for two reasons: 1) Price. They will always be cheaper than Tamiya, sometimes as much as 1/3 to 1/2 depending. 2) Value. They are increasingly offering items such as aluminum barrels, figures, and optional parts for different variants and diorama possibilities within the same kit without raising their prices. Combine that with #1 and they have a distinct advantage. Some potential drawbacks: Indy track links (I prefer these and see them as a plus, others don't), instructions that are prone to misleading diagrams and sometimes outright errors, softer plastic (makes trimming/sanding a more delicate exercise), sometimes confusion sprue labelling (B sprue and b sprue in same kit).

Can't really comment on Italeri. I've only ever built two of their kits, the Pz 38(t) and Crusader III, but both kits built up reasonably well and were a good price.

HTH

Tamiya has been the industry standard it seems and they are becoming complacent. They have lousy customer service and as Bill has stated, they seem to be giving up on 1/35. That being said, they do have some really nice kits, but also some clunkers in there.
I have the 1/16 Full Option Tiger I which is an incredible kit. Extremely expensive, but a very nice kit. I also have the 1/16 Full Option M4, which is a reissue from 1974. How mad would you be if you spent over $400 on a kit and the mold is 30 years old and has less detail than a 1/72 kit? That's my problem with Tamiya.

Dragon and Trumpeter seem to be picking up the ball and running with it. Dragon's extras really make the AM parts you'd might want with Tamiya unnecessary.
Trumpeter's 1/16 T-34 stacks up against Tamiya's 1/16 Tiger (static kit), even better actually based on the full interior, engine and tranny, for less than half the price.

Finally, DragonCare will replace any part or sprue with no questions asked and no cost to you. Tamiya USA will SELL you any sprue for about half of what the kit costs.

That's my opinion anyway.

Tamiya always seem to have the best fit, in terms of anything new. Dragons latest offerings are great, Italeri to a lesser extent. Ultimately, you get what you pay for. Italeri and Dragon don't have any major problems, and really only thing that generally keeps them down is fit of parts, and cleanup. However, Italeri being almost twice as cheap as Tamiya has it's good points as well, namely the money you keep in your pocket.

The one main beef I have with Italeri is their rubber tracks. They are stiff as a board and a paint to work with. I can tell you that Testors/Italeri's customer service is fantastic. IU bought the Chaffee a few weeks back and found I had 2 C sprues and no B sprues. I called Testors and within a week I had a replacement.

I like Dragon kits but I wish they wouldn't have so many pour plugs on every piece. I recently finished their T-34/76 and wore out a lot of sandpaper on that kit. However, they do have a bigger variety of models than Tamiya and they do include a lot of great extra's like metal barrels and personal gear.

Tamiya is great and my first kits were mostly from them but Dragon and Academy has recently came up with "great-value" offerings. So I am now more for Dragon and Academy.

I think Tamiya makes great kits, but alas, spendy kits with little to no extras such as aluminum barrels, PE parts, and indy tracks. Dragon offers the extras and at a much reduced price. Secondly they have some offerings that Tamiya doesn't and is continueing to grow their 1/35 line. Finally Italeri is hit and miss and do offer some very eclectic kits that the other big boys don't. They are generally affordable, but Dragon again offers too much in comparison.

My selection of kits to build are quickly going from Tamiya to Dragon. Factors being cost and ever nicer kits from dragon. Semper Fi, mike

So with all this talk about Dragon and Italeri no one has made mention of Academy at all. I hear their latest offering are pretty good builds. I myself have been looking at their 1/35 M3 Stuart Honey.

The Honey is supposed to be a nice build, but the interior is inaccurate. Depends on how nit pickey you want to be. Personally, I'd like to build one. Just haven't gotten around to it, yet.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Embark So with all this talk about Dragon and Italeri no one has made mention of Academy at all.

Hmmmm....I did.

Tamiya is really not worried about there plastic kit lines as thier bread and butter.Thier R/C line has taken off like crazy.If you notice and I know ya'll have most of thier 35 scale is made for motorizing.This is the way they are going,but hope is over the horizin just as most of you all said.Adcamedy,accriute models,Dragon,Iterali,Revell of Germany,Marqette and Trumperter are all put some great kits.Some of thier newer ones even surpass Tamiya in quaity which to me some time ago was unbelievible.Digger

I really don't like the Tamiya models personally. Sure they fit great, but as stated above numerously the price and the extras keep me going with Academy, Dragon, and others. I really like the two Italeri models I have built (M163A1 Vulcan and M923A1 5-ton) as they offer decent detail and good plastic. I have groused and b*&^hed in here about Trumpeter alot, but they are actually an awful lot of fun to build BECAUSE of the work involved.

theres some Tamiya kits that use Italeri parts, and Tamiya sell Italeri kits as Tamiya in Japan
the old Hummer Bushmaster is based on the Italeri hummer kit, i found that out by buying it years ago, i could have bought 5 italeri hummers for the price

QUOTE: Originally posted by wbill76 They can also give you some nasty surprises if you get one of their older kits and expect it to meet the same standards. They don't tell you on the box "older release" so do your homework on that regard.

Caveat emptor.

I don't personally hold it against them that they have thier older kits still for sale. And I don't know of any company that puts a label on the box of its older products that says "this is not as good as our more recent products."

QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn QUOTE: Originally posted by wbill76 They can also give you some nasty surprises if you get one of their older kits and expect it to meet the same standards. They don't tell you on the box "older release" so do your homework on that regard. Caveat emptor. I don't personally hold it against them that they have thier older kits still for sale. And I don't know of any company that puts a label on the box of its older products that says "this is not as good as our more recent products."

Very true Larry. The same holds true for any of the manufacturers and you can usually tell an "older" Tamiya just by the price but not much else unless you research the kit. For those judging by the brand name only, it can be a rude awakening as Tamiya is "generally" accepted as the highest in detail for the genre.

It is my personal opinion that Tamiya is like Prince Valium from Spaceballs, he's all there, but just somewhere else.....while dragon and now trumpeter are moving not so stealthily anymore, more, like 3 rambos going in to seize the fortune in the tomb. I love dragon, it is a wonder if i will really ever go tamiya for much anymore, i like everything i have bought from dragon so far, while i am not so pleased with Italeri, as they do have quality, just not much in the box, and a little sparse on details

QUOTE: Originally posted by kaleu I like Dragon kits but I wish they wouldn't have so many pour plugs on every piece. I recently finished their T-34/76 and wore out a lot of sandpaper on that kit. However, they do have a bigger variety of models than Tamiya and they do include a lot of great extra's like metal barrels and personal gear.

how was the t-34? i've heard good things...what is the turret interior like? i have tamiya's old one and i need a resin set or something as it looks so bare...

Man, Tamiya just can't win with this crowd, can it?
What I'm hearing here is that the inexpensive old stuff is crap and the excellent new stuff is too expensive!

In my opinion, even the old Tamiya stuff is great. Not perfectly accurate by any means, but even the old kits fit well and are reasonably (if not accurately) detailed, and are certainly reasonably priced. Definitely the best available when they were released. A minimal amount of homework by the prospective buyer would help avoid any surprises. That goes for any maker's kits. Heck, at the very least, post a question here!

The pricing is relative. Here in Japan, Tamiya is cheaper than Dragon or Academy, and vastly cheaper than Revell. (Trumpeter is still the absolute cheapest!)

I'm not trying to make excuses for Tamiya, and I don't work for them (yet). I'm not too thrilled by their latest releases or their new foray into 1/48 armor, but I recognise their products past and present as quality items worthy of consideration.

In the end, of course, it's all your choice!

J-Hulk,

It's not just the price of the kits for Tamiya that leaves a bad taste with many...it's also the quirks like continuing with open hull sponsons so you can see right through it, the lousy customer service regarding replacement parts vs. DragonCare for example, the bait-and-switch of reboxing an old kit while adding a PE grill and using that as justification for upping the price, and the sheer inability to justify their prices anymore vs. what their competition is offering. Look at the MSRP for their Ardenne KT vs. Dragon's new KT coming in January and the writing is clearly on the wall, at least for US buyers.

Tamiya was king for a long time but I think they've fallen victim to the tyrant's disease of being on top for too long and losing sight of what is needed to stay competitive in their dominant arena. They suffer from a benign lethargy and the other manufacturers are all too eager to pick up the slack. There are still many positive things in their kit offerings but the future belongs to others from what I can see.

I understand all the gripes, Bill. And I don't necessarily disagree with them.
But it's still all about cost versus value, no matter how a kit is rehashed, reboxed, or rewhatevered (I wouldn't call it "bait-and-switch"). Not everyone has the original kit. I doubt Tamiya is marketing their old Sd.Kfz 222 with new PE parts towards the folks who already have it.
Again, it's the consumer's choice. If the value of something isn't worth the cost, don't buy it. Then the manufacturer will either change to satisfy the consumer or cease manufacturing (sorry to bring up that old and tired point!).

By the way, does Tamiya America really have lousy service? How about Tamiya Europe?
Tamiya in Japan has absolutely EXCELLENT customer service. Hard to believe they'd let their overseas offices drop the ball to such a degree as to be called "lousy" by the customers in that country. Perhaps some whips need to be cracked.

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk I understand all the gripes, Bill. And I don't necessarily disagree with them. But it's still all about cost versus value, no matter how a kit is rehashed, reboxed, or rewhatevered (I wouldn't call it "bait-and-switch"). Not everyone has the original kit. I doubt Tamiya is marketing their old Sd.Kfz 222 with new PE parts towards the folks who already have it. Again, it's the consumer's choice. If the value of something isn't worth the cost, don't buy it. Then the manufacturer will either change to satisfy the consumer or cease manufacturing (sorry to bring up that old and tired point!). By the way, does Tamiya America really have lousy service? How about Tamiya Europe? Tamiya in Japan has absolutely EXCELLENT customer service. Hard to believe they'd let their overseas offices drop the ball to such a degree as to be called "lousy" by the customers in that country. Perhaps some whips need to be cracked.

True enough, market forces are powerful ones. I also believe that you can't pretty up junk under the "value" label and expect to get very far. The buying public for the most part is a discerning one in this arena at least.

I should clarify what I mean by lousy Tamiya service...I compare them to Dragon as polar opposites...TamiyaUSA are more than happy to sell you any parts you need but usually at 50% or more of what a whole kit would cost (and sometimes refusing to deal with you directly, forcing you to deal with your LHS for ordering), they make you pay the shipping, and they aren't very quick about doing it. Compare that to Dragon who will ship you only the parts you need, at no cost to you, and usually within 1 week start to finish depending.

I still build Tamiya kits, 2 of my last 5 builds were Tamiyas. I'm working on the last one in my stash currently. If I see a kit of interest and both Tamiya and Dragon offer it, I'm more likely to go with the Dragon offering even though I know Dragon will invariably need more attention to the instructions and may have older kit issues, it's worth it IMHO. I recognize the same may not be true for others and that's the true distinction I guess for Tamiya. If you want a no hassles kit and are willing to pay the top dollar that Tamiya commands, there you go. If you are willing to accept slightly less accuracy but more options/AM inclusion, then Dragon looks to be the wave of the future. (I'm not a rabid Dragon advocate by any stretch and truly a fickle consumer...if say Trumpeter or Academy started doing the same thing, well I'd definitely give them a good look ).

I personally like the SdKfz 251 and until recently Tamya was the only kits i could buy. i just finnished their old 251/C kit and was thoroughly dissapointed in lack of detail and poor fit (bought the kit when it first came out and loved it then , but times change ), getting ready to start their 251/9 that seems to have more detail but still the rubberband tracks. AFV and Dragon have a lot more models and versions betweem them that i want to do ( 11- 251's and 4- 250's ) so that's the way i'm going in the 1/2 track department. for other subjects i'll still give Tamya a looksee and compare.

Doing your homework before buying has always been the wisest way to go... no one company is going to meet all your ideas for a great kit, great value, etc... As was mentioned before all of us can ask here on the forums about a particular kit before purchasing it and you will get lots of great advise and critics of the kit! Thanks to all of you who take the time to share with one another and help us all to make those wise decisions!

Well ya'll done it,I have to say this.It is not Tamiya nor Dargon nor anybody else for that matter that makes great kits.It is YOU that right You,these manufactures that we buy from,just give us a basis to work on.Don't take me wrong,I am not mad but look at what ya'll have done with these kits.The work is fantastic!When some thing goes wrong or some thing just does not fit right,we make it right.We find things around the house or at stores that helps us to correct the problems.So what if C.S. is not up to what it should be.We still fix the problems on these kits because we know how or find someone who does.Tamiya along with the rest puts out some good stuff as well as bad.We just can not buy from one Manufacture all the time and have the collection we got in our seleves.This would be boring and non-productive.I think Tamiya makes a good product and will still buy from them but there is just more then one fish out in the sea.Digger

Have to agree with Diggeraone.

It is not imporant who makes the "best" kit or whose kit ahs the best base to allow you to build a stunning kit.
So everybody is down right now at Tamiya because they think Tamiya dropped the ball, but you also need to realise whre we would be if Tamiya hadn't run with the ball for a long time and raise the bar for what we now expect as standard quality for kits.

Why are we still comparing kits against tamiya standard, because they set it for a long time. So maybe it will be dragon or trumpeter who will set the next level of standard.

OTOH, you also have to ask yourself why are you in the hobby, to take an easy kit and make it look nice or to be able to take ANY kit and make it look nice.

IMHO, any average modeler can take a high quality kit and buy plenty of AM parts to build a winner, but there are others out there that can win with a dog of a kit too.
Where is the skill??
In opening the wallet and paying for high quality kit & AM parts or in aking a sloppy kit and maybe sloppy AM parts and make them look nice?

This is one thing you have to answer for yourself.

The way I see it there are builders of nice kits out there and those that want to have a collection of nice looking kits.