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how does a tank work?

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  • Member since
    November 2005
how does a tank work?
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:30 PM
OK, the question is stupid put that way - generally I'm curious about everything concerhing the tanks as machines. I just got into tank modelling (and got the 1/16 T-34...), but before I do anything, I would like to know as much as possible about how the tracks work, how the turret works, what do the different crew members do, how these beasts are constructed, anything. I can't really find info on it online... (Similar stuff about airplanes -theory of flight, jet engine, etc- is much more accessible.)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:42 PM
u could try googling a specific afv, like ur T-34...
there r also dedicated sites like arnorama...
crew is often as follows:
-commander (picks targets, specifies type of ordinance 2 b used)
-loader (loads proper ordinance)
- gunner (sights & fires main gun)
-driver (drives & is responsible 4 vehicle maintenance on the road)
-assistant driver / hull gunner / radio operator is often added
this is very simplified, of course.
there r no stupid questions, except those that remain unasked !

HTH,
frostySmile [:)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:50 PM
Try this: http://people.howstuffworks.com/m1-tank.htm

It is more for modern tanks, but you will get the idea.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Halfway back to where I started
Posted by ckfredrickson on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:50 PM
This may be a bit basic, but

http://people.howstuffworks.com/m1-tank.htm

EDIT - Dangit Incognito... you beat me by 19 seconds.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: California
Posted by Manic Moran on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Ask more specific questions, and you'll probably get more useful answers.

What part of the tracks do you not understand?

http://www.tank-net.org is the go-to place for questions about real tanks.

NTM

The difference between infantrymen and cavalrymen is that cavalrymen die faster for we ride into battle!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:25 PM
Well, for starters, how do the different types of wheels work? (Idler, road, whatever.) Why do most of the tanks have rubber on the roadwheels, and why some T-34 type did not? How do you change a broken link on the field? How often do you need to do that? What metals do they use for tracks? How and why regulate the tension of the tracks? Why do you have those teeth inside of the track links? What's the theoretical maximum speed of a tank? Since when can tanks fire on the move and how did it change the tactics of their deployment (how did a tank battle look like in WWII vs today?) I read some interesting facts about the newer T-72, T-80 and they do seem formidable even compared to the Western stuff. How do they shoot guided (!) ammunition from the main gun? What do they guide it with? Defensive measures avaliable now and before... different types of armours... The advantages of the turbine engine vs diesels. the difference between tanks and other things that look like tanks for me but have different names... (For me so far a tank is something with tracks with a long tube sticking out front.) Is there future for the tanks considering attack choppers and UAVs with rockets? What's the main role of tanks today anyway? Lately we don't see much of that Rommel-type tank-battles. These sort of things. :)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:33 PM
Well, I guess one place to start is the HowStuffWorks web site...
http://www.howstuffworks.com/

More specifically, here's how an M1 tank works...
http://science.howstuffworks.com/m1-tank.htm

You might be interested in this cut-away book. Cool cross-sections of a number of tanks...including a T-34...



http://my.linkbaton.com/get?lbCC=q&nC=q&genre=book&item=0751354384

Amazon doesn't have it in stock, but it's common in public libraries. They sell for under $3...try AbeBooks if you want a copy...
http://www.abebooks.com

Specifically, for a nuts and bolts view of a T-34, go to this site for portions of original manuals...


http://www.gjames.com.au/chris/t34/service.html

Tanxheaven has lots of great T-34 pics. Here's a good page with a bunch of the innerworkings exposed...


http://tanxheaven.com/ludob/t34-85/t34-85.htm

They have this one too...


http://tanxheaven.com/krzo/t34-85details/t34-85detailskrzo.htm

Here's the main index on Tanxheaven for reference photos. They have lots more T-34s...
http://tanxheaven.com/referencepictures.htm

The TankMaster does too...
http://www.thetankmaster.com/tanks.asp


http://www.thetankmaster.com/english/afv/t34-85_2.asp

As for the crew, here's where you'll find them...


http://mkmagazin.almanacwhf.ru/armor/t_34_7705.htm

Try Google, Yahoo and A9 for searches. Use their image searches too.

Good luck with it. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Here's a link to an incredible T-34 build by Liejon Schoot...


http://tanxheaven.com/ljs/t34-85modljs/t34-85modljs.htm


  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:34 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by spongya77

Well, for starters, how do the different types of wheels work? (Idler, road, whatever.)


One wheel, the sprocket, has teeth on it and is attached to the tanks internal drive mechanism. The tank's engine turns this sprocket. It has teeth so that it will bite into the tracks and tug them around. This is what moves the tank. The Idler is the wheel on the other side, to keep the tracks draped nicely. The roadwheels are the guys down at the bottom. They are there for the tracks to move along, so that the tracks can smoothly roll and pull the tank forward.

QUOTE: Why do most of the tanks have rubber on the roadwheels, and why some T-34 type did not?


Rubber absorbs shocks better than steel. It also gives the roadwheels better traction on the treads as they roll along the roadwheels. Russia was short of raw materials and could not supply the rubber, so they just used metal roadwheels.

QUOTE: How do you change a broken link on the field?


It's apparently a horrifying job. I think how it's done depends on the doctrine of the army in question. Maybe a serving soldier or a veteran can fill you in on details, but I doubt anyone here ever changed the tracks on a T-34. (Happy to be proven wrong, though!)

QUOTE: How often do you need to do that?


As often as necessary.

QUOTE: What metals do they use for tracks?


Steel.

Hmmm, next question ... oh my God, what a battery of questions ... can't ... go ... on ... must ... rest ... Spock ... Spock ....

Laugh [(-D]

Seriously, buy a general book about tanks and do some reading. There are lots of books out there about tanks.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:35 PM
The drive sprockets are the wheels with the teeth. They link into the tracks and are what moves the vehicle. On the opposite side of the vehicle is the Idler wheel. That sets the track tension and is therefore adjustable. The road wheels are the wheels in between, and are essentially in contact with the ground, with the tracks, obviously, between the wheels and the ground. Most road wheels have rubber tires, though they didn't always. Road wheels are set on independant suspension arms which allow them to conform to the ground. There are also often small rollers along the top of the running gear area called Return Rollers. These simply guide the track as it passes along the top and take up any slack to keep the tracks from snapping and eventually breaking. The arrangment varries from vehicle to vehicle, so you'll definitely want to study up on whatever specific vehicle you're working on.

The T-34 had large road wheels with the drive sprocket in front and the idler in the rear. The road wheels were very large and the tracks rolled over the top of them and there are no return rollers. You'll notice that they also came with both rubber tired road wheels, as well as steel road wheels. I believe this was a cost issue, as well as a time factor issue.

Compare that to a Sheman (as well as most US tanks of the time). The Sherman had the Sprocket on the front and the idler on the rear as well, but instead of free standing road wheels, they had "bogie" assemblies that contained the road wheels and return rollers in one assembly.

The Germans used both the free standing road wheel system and the bogie system. Compare a Pz.Kfw III or IV to a Tiger or Panther.

You'll notice on many modern tanks, that the drive sprocket is located in the rear.

I would start getting my hands on books by Squadron/Signal, Osprey and Schiffer Publications. These will be your best ready made sources for any particular vehicle, as they are crammed with lots of pictures, diagrams, cutaway drawings, and color plates to show different color schemes and unit markings. Plus there's lots of text covering the development and deployment history as well as performance history of the vehicle. That's all good stuff to know. Diorama ideas come from seemingly mundane details, like that the old radial aircraft engines used on early US tanks, like the first Shermans, were not reliable and were a bear to fix because several pistons were on the bottom of the engine compartment and near impossible to access without completely removing the engine. There's a story for a diorama or vignette there somewhere.

These books also answer the question of crew positions and duties, though that's fairly self explainitory. You generally have a vehicle commander, gunner, loader, driver and assistant driver on a five man crew, and drop the Assistant driver for a four man crew. There are other crew variations which depend on the type of vehicle and what point in history you're modeling. The old German A7 tanks from WWI had a huge crew. Nearly twenty IIRC.

http://www.jjfpub.mb.ca/schiffer_publications.htm
http://www.squadron.com/
http://www.ospreypublications.com/
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:52 PM
Best bet is to go to the library and look for a book on tanks. There are many general books on tanks and armor that can help explain it all to you.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:21 PM
minor correction: the t34 ( and i think most at least larger soviet tanks) had the drive sprocket at the rear. it didn't have teeth because the horns on the tracks were used the same way.

as far as what's a tank, generally and i THINK it's an armored, tracked, turreted vehicle which is generally used to assault fortifications, support infantry and battle other tanks. so a stug3 b isn't a tank because a) it's not turreted and b) was meant for infantry support primarily. an su-85 or a hellcat aren't tanks because they're meant to fight other tanks. and i guess a t-34/57 is technically still a tank but it was more of a tank destroyer because that was its purpose. don't know, that's the rule i go by. an exception is the strv 103 which doesn't have a turret but is still meant as a tank ( i think )

changing tracks, i think there's a regular interval (although you'd PROBABLY want to fix it if they broke ) and i THINK the sherman's interval was like 2000 miles. i think the panthers had shorter intervals but don't remember what. you'd want to tension the tracks properly to avoid extra wear and improve operation, same as a motorcycle chain or tire pressure.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by goatmonkey
so a stug3 b isn't a tank because a) it's not turreted and b) was meant for infantry support primarily.


In that case, how would you classify a British Mk. IV?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:47 PM
Thank you for all the answers.
It's strange that the whole thing is moved by only one wheel per side and the rest is passive -that means that without the tracks the vechicle is disabled. I guess fighting tanks mean breaking the tracks first...
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:54 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by spongya77

Thank you for all the answers.
It's strange that the whole thing is moved by only one wheel per side and the rest is passive -that means that without the tracks the vechicle is disabled. I guess fighting tanks mean breaking the tracks first...


Best method is to destroy them with a direct hit by a killer munition. Even if the tracks are disabled, they can still employ their weapons and then they become a really hardened bunker.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:27 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Larry_Dunn

QUOTE: Originally posted by goatmonkey
so a stug3 b isn't a tank because a) it's not turreted and b) was meant for infantry support primarily.


In that case, how would you classify a British Mk. IV?


I would classify it as a large wedge of delicious cheese.

seriously, i don't know. those early tanks are in a category of their own.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: California
Posted by Manic Moran on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:43 PM
I think 'tank' is defined by role, more than physical attributes. For example, doctrinally the Strv-103 (S-Tank) is a tank, not an assault gun or tank destroyer, even though it has no turret.

Also, when we move into the realm of hovertanks or counter-grav or whatever, we have no tracks, so what happens then?

I always called them 'drivewheels' as opposed to sprocket wheels. I guess too much time playing with model trains, though it is probably most accurate for T-34s which don't have sprocket wheels in the traditional sense of the word, instead relying on a series of roller bars within the wheel which mesh with the track's center guides. Things also get confusing with things like the BT-5 which had powered roadwheels and could run without tracks.

To break track on a modern tank, you need to release any track tension, apply track jacks (one to each side of the track, they look like large 'c-clamps' and are designed to keep the track in a loop when the connectors are gone), loosen up the bolts on the end connectors, pull them off, loosen up the bolts on the center guide, pull that off, then loosen the track jacks.

On T-34s (and M113s while I think of it), they use a single-pin connecting system on untensioned tracks, it's just a matter of hammering out the connector pin. Track tension is used to stop the loose track 'falling off' the wheels on corners. The teeth are there for the same reason. (Center guides)

To my knowledge, no German tank after the MkII used bogies. The interleaved tanks had torsion bars.

The missiles from the Russian tanks are usually beam-riders. (They ride a laser beam to the target). I'm not sure how the Shilleleaghs on the American tanks were guided, truth be told.

Tank speeds are limited by the power-weight ratio, gearing ratio, the friction of the track assemblys, and the ability of the whole thing to hold together as it drives. Theoretically, an Abrams can break 100mph. The track pretty much ripped itself apart when it did it though, so they never did it again. (Early model, stripped down for the speed run)

Tanks aren't going anywhere. They've had their doomsayers ever since the Israeli Armoured Corps met the Sagger Missile in 1973. They will always have a purpose.

As for the main role, modern tanks began to lose sight of their true roles during the cold war. They became more tank destroyers than tanks, but only in recent operations (read: Iraq) have some countries like the US figured out that the true role of a tank is multi-role, and generally infantry support. Hence the mad rush to put new ammunition into service.

NTM

The difference between infantrymen and cavalrymen is that cavalrymen die faster for we ride into battle!

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: California
Posted by Manic Moran on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:46 PM
Delete. Duplicate

The difference between infantrymen and cavalrymen is that cavalrymen die faster for we ride into battle!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Thursday, September 1, 2005 6:00 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Manic Moran
To my knowledge, no German tank after the MkII used bogies. The interleaved tanks had torsion bars.
NTM


The Pzr III and IV used bogies.
~Brian
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: California
Posted by Manic Moran on Thursday, September 1, 2005 4:19 PM
Shows you how far my knowledge of WWII tanks goes...

NTM

The difference between infantrymen and cavalrymen is that cavalrymen die faster for we ride into battle!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 2, 2005 10:57 PM
You are great, guys! A whole new horizont opened up... (Just when I figured out how a ramjet works... :P)
I'll try to find something in the library.
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