armor details(tools, cables, etc), painting, how do you do it?

Hi there,

Well, you and I are in the same boat here! I have been buying lots of AFVs (all WWII German armour) and the boxes are just sitting there, waiting to be built! I tried my first one ever about two and a half years ago, but really didn't know anything, so I gave up and the model didn't look great either. So in the interim I've been buying and reading every magazine and book I can get my hands on - I understand (more or less!) the weathering process, but like you, but I don't undertand how to paint the pioneers tools, tow cables etc without painting the model the same colour. It's very frustaring because everthing I read assumes the reader understands all this stuff, and I certainly don't! 

This past weekend I purchased an armour magazine where a Tiger tank was built and the tracks were painted while already fitted to the vehicle. Now how in hell do you get that right?

I wrote to the editor of FSM a while and suggested that they take an AFV and build it, over a series of issues, from start to finish, with all the relevant weathering techniques. Obviously these articles would be aimed at people like you and I. Then we could be shown how the pioneer tools and cables are painted, how the tracks are painted (on or off the vehicle) etc. Once I learnt how to do this I'd start on all the beautiful models I have (gathering dust in their boxes!).

Let's hope the editor reads this post because man ..................... I need help!

Regards

Dean

 

Tools, wheels, and tracks:

I paint all of these seperately from the tank itself (unless they are molded to the kit like on the smaller scales).

For the tools, I like to paint the entire tool first with the base color (using an airbrush).  Once the main vehicle is base-coated, I paint the wood a brown or orange and the metal a mixture of steel and black.

For the wheels, I paint the whole wheel the base color and then paint the rubber and track wear marks.
The rubber is usually Polly Scale grimy black, and the wear marks are either silver or a mixture of silver and black.

For the tracks, we all have our own way of doing these.  Pretty much, I start with gray or primer gray, brush on multilple coats of a rust wash or dirt wash (or both...make sure that each is really dry), and then I dry-brush a mixture of silver and black in the areas prone to wear.  If there are rubber sections, this area gets a coat of flat black over the primer.

Now you put all of these on the kit (probably using CA glue since you've got multiple coats of paint on them).  Some people do build the kit first, but I don't have that steady of a paint brush or the time for vast amounts of masking.

Once the kit it together, it is now time to weather.

Grant

Well I don't consider my self an expert my any means.  And, I do feel your pain it does seem like many long time modelers take for granted the little details of assembly (no slight on any one).  I find that how I assemble a model is at times based on the model.  I will paint and dry brush most all of the tools and extra's separately and then attach them to the model using "super glue" or white glue it just depends.  Some people can gently scrap a little paint off and use modeling glue (because it does get messy if you don't) but I am not one of these people.

As I said it depends on the model, some times I paint and weather different sub-assemblies then put the model together.

If I was going to give any advice to you it would be "Just build something" like anything you do you need experience.  You can read every book or internet article but until you put glue, brush, etc. to a model you won't know how to do it.  Almost every master build started just like everyone else.  They put something together and said "Wow that looks like crap, I think I can do better".  It's hobby because it's suppose to be FUN.

Grizz 

I agree with what's been posted, and I think the norm is to paint as much as you can off the model.

Since I typically work in large scale armor (1/16), I tend to treat every part like a kit in itself.

One of the problems that many modelers face when starting out is (surprise) a lack of "required, but not listed" colors for things that we take for granted.

A model kit's instructions might tell you that you need flat black, panzer gray, and rust, but it doesn't tell you that you should have several other colors for those odd parts...burnt umber for wooden handles, steel or metallic gray for tools, shovels, picks, and other pioneer tools, russet red for leather straps, etc..

Eventually, as time goes on, you pick up more and more bottles of paint (don't ask, I've lost count), and using those various colors gives the model a better sense of reality.

Don't feel down about it. If you only knew how many kits I've ruined in the years I've been building, you'd be shocked.

Jeff

I tend to paint as much of the accessories like tools, extra wheels, and tracks off the vehicle. As for the tracks, I've just recently gotten into the habit of basecoating them, then attaching, and weathering only the visible surfaces while the tracks are on the vehicle. It makes life a lot easier.

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback, I appreciate the input.  I'm glad to hear it is not only me that has wrestled with these types of issues.

I was a little freaked out when I read a few books and the consensus seemed to be that the details will be painted after attached.  I was looking at the tow cables, jack and tools for the StuG I am building, thinking to myself, "Sheesh I better not have any coffee the day I finish this thing, no way I'll be able to paint those in place!"  Then I'm thinking, "How do I attach them if I paint everything first!!"  

Although I  have built a couple models in the recent past, this is what I am calling my first "real" build, so I wanted to try to at least make it look decent(not award-winning mind you, but at least something I wouldn't mind having other people see).  The others were not much to look at, I pretty much ruined them trying to finish them off, and I really didn't want that to happen to this one.

For the most part I paint the tools separate and attach them after the vehicle has been painted.  I find super glue to be the best glue.  Wherever the contact point of the tool is located, touch a drop of superglue to the tool and the hull, and capilliary action will wick it into place with no mess.  I use fine wire to apply superglue because it seems to to a better job of holding a tiny droplet at the very end.  After the superglue has dried, if there is any obvious gloss residue, I use a fine brush to brush over some flat clear.

For painting, metal parts like shovel blades, I'll paint first with gun metal then dry brush with silver.  I may then dry brush with rust depending on the look I'm going after.  For wood like shovel handles, I'll brush with a light tan, intentionally overbrushing to develop some light brush marks which represent wood grain.  After dry, I'll was with a darker brown color.  Possibly to show usage, I may apply some dark pastel chalk dust to darken the parts of the handles where the soldiers would have held the tool while using it.

The main thing is to really look at each situation individually and decide on what seems as though it will be the easiest for you to deal with painting and attaching the tools.  

Not to be the one who differs from all the rest, but i prefer building the whole model, then painting the details when there attached. I use a fine brush to paint the tools, and after i airbrush i paint and wheather the tracks. I guess its what the modeller prefers, and whatever they find best.

Jordan

I'm one who assembles most of the kit first as well.  As for pioneer tools, slip a piece of paper beneath it as a mask for the tank's body.  Therefore, if your brush slips, you don't mar the tank's finish. 

I raised some similar issues in this thread in the General Modeling forum: http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/573122/ShowPost.aspx

One excellent book which comes to mind as an example of "build first, paint later" (and hence very intimidating to noobs like me who haven't got the basics quite right yet) is Tony Greenland's "Panzer Modelling".  His constructed models look superb, but the thought of trying to paint them in that state scares me!

That is the exact book I was referring to in my earlier post.  I got it for Christmas and I was reading the section on finishing and painting and not lookig forward to trying to paint everyhting in place.   Guess they call it "Masterclass" for a reason!

I can't imagine painting tools and the like "on" the kit.

I'm not a big fan of tools painted as "metal" nd "wood," though.  Military establishments just love uniformity, and supply & inspection types thrive on paint.  So, everything 'ought' to be painted what ever the factory base color was (barring evidence to the contrary, etc. yada yada yada).

And, actually, I do tend to put some sort of "wood" and some sort of "metal" color on--I just dry (or more) brush the 'factory' color over that to leave as much "worn" appearance as I can stand.

I also vary the 'factory' colors since "busy work" (like painting pioneer tools) is likely to use the paint available.  Which is also not a bad way to use the eleventy other bottles of OD or "panzer grey" or "desert tan" lurking on the shelf.

Now, for tough, it's when your research photos show that the hands were in a hurry, and sprayed right over the tools--that's such a hard effect to properly render.

 

I paint tracks off , as a matter of fact I usually do wheels off  (on the sprue) as well ,and add any dirt debris etc  to the hull before the wheels go on , tracks of course are best painted seperate as they are of a darker color anyhow , I usually use gunmetal as a base color and pigment the tone down with steel or aluminum  laquer lightly drybrushed on  the high spots  .

Now,...tools and cables I do on the tank, as I usually use PE clamps so they will be a bit off the tank anyhow , use a small bit of paper slid under for a quicky mask here , if they are stocker kit clamps and tools paint seperate to get a nice clean paintjob.

1/72 is yet another matter , and I have yet to go to 1/48 scale armor so I have no experience there at all .

I agree with CpnMac82, tools get painted - the basic idea is that untreated (ie unpainted) wood will deteriorate more rapidly than treated wood and unpainted metal will rust.  Even in peace time, you knew you were going to paint your tools at least once a year - usually right before the IG inspection at a minimum. Or right after you did something that made your section chief very unhappy.

I tend to put it all together except for the track and road wheels then paint. The road wheels I usually paint the base coat on the sprue then take them off and clean them up. I use one of the axles on the vehicle, usually the rear most and toss the wheels on one at a time to paint the tire if it has one. That way I can roll it with my thumb while I hold the brush or marker in place. Vinyl track I paint off the vehicle, but indies I put together the whole run and fix it on the tank then paint it. It's a little more complicated to paint, but the track isn't falling apart this way. I normally paint the pioneer tools in place on the tank and I tend to paint the wooden handles a red brown and the blades a metallic gray. It's not the way they'd be in real life, but I think it makes the model more interesting to look at.

hi guys -- i paint everything-- every piece possible off the model--i even paint pieces that are the same color off and change the tint (lighter and darker) in the middle of painting-- it is subtle but adds up when it is put together and weathered together---- thanks treadwell