Bit of History by Shermanfreak

Most of the GermanFreaks picked up on that right away.
I had not heard about the aftermath, where did you read that, I'd like to read a little more about it myself.

Whew, you said Canadian.....


;)

Alas, there is little more in the book than what I have already put out. But if you'd like to check it out, the book is "Tiger I on the Western Front" by Jean Restayn. I got in on Amazon for about $26.00. He has another book, aptly titled "Tiger I on the Eastern Front". He does a very good job illustrating the differences between Early, Mid, and Late Tigers and the subtle differences between the battalions. The downside is that the book doesn't go too deeply into the history of the men manning the machines. (A lot of pictures for knuckle-draggers like us) I learned much for my Tiger I Full Option. There was also a lot in there about the Sherman tank; more specifically those lost, and captured by the Germans.

Roy

The other observation I have about the picture is this: given my research into the Tiger I and its common adversaries, Tiger 007 wasn't destroyed by another tank. Photographs show time after time where a Tiger had taken multiple hits from Allied tanks and not been knocked out. With the damage displayed in that photo, I would take a guess that 007 was eliminated by an anti-tank gun, an allied fighter bomber, or an artillery shell. If this book taught me anything; the Tiger was a victim of these main factors: An underpowered engine, complex engineering (It broke down a lot), a lack of replacement parts, and of course accidents. (Many tanks were lost due to them slipping into ditches and trenches.)

Really cool info man!!! Tanks...lol

My info gives credit to a British Firefly but there is some contention on the subject with the most likely other candidate being a RAF Typhoon with rockets.

Also try John Keegan - WW2 or Stephen Ambrose "D-Day"

"The Panzers and the Battle for Normandy" by Georges Bernage is a good one to get. Has a portion devoted to Wittman and his crew. Talks about when his Tiger finally arrives near Villlers-Bocage, south-east of Caen. He has a field day against Allied armor and soft-skins.

The bad feeling caused by severity of the mauling dealt out to german tankies by our Typhoons after D-Day resurfaced recently after the RAF had christened the EF2000 the Typhoon.
The Germans objected.
We reminded the germans that they also had a Taifuin flying during WW2.
Armour only rules the battlefield until the tankbusters arrive!

QUOTE: With the damage displayed in that photo

And the debate of how Wittman's demise came about will continue on and on.

As far as the damage goes, it was quite possible for the Sherman to cause this kind of damage IF and only IF the hull was penetrated and the ammunition stored inside ignited causing and internal explosion. Now if the Sherman was a Firefly with the 17 lber, then the odds improved drastically.
The odds were naturally stacked against this type of occurrance, but odds have been beaten many times.

QUOTE: It should be noted that his men got revenge, because on the following day they destroyed 47 allied tanks, 38 of which were Canadian, without any Tigers lost.

Just to add to this debate a little.
I did a little quick research and I do mean quick and I also don't profess to be that knowledgable about the German Army. I did find a reference to the Canadians being mauled by the Germans on that date while attempting to manouver to help close the Falaise Gap. They were stopped very dead in their tracks by elements of the 12th S.S with the loss of 47 tanks and numerous personnel.
Is this the incident that you are referring to or is it another?
The reason I ask is because Wittman belonged to sSSPzAbt 101. If so then it wasn't his men or does sSSPzAbt 101 belong to the 12th S.S.?

Food for thought !!!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak [ The reason I ask is because Wittman belonged to sSSPzAbt 101. If so then it wasn't his men or does sSSPzAbt 101 belong to the 12th S.S.? Food for thought !!!!

the Tiger groups were used as fire brigades, being sent where they were needed most so it is possible that they could have been there aswell , to stop any breakout the allies attempted

Are you guys going to ruin a great story like the story of Baron Von Richtofen or do we need the Discovery channel to come in with their computer generated models and high tech gadgets?

Dang Shermanfreak!

Your "quick reference" contains a great deal of information! More than what my book gives, as a matter of fact. You are correct that Wittman belonged to the 101st schwer SS Panzer Abteilung, but I'm going to agree with Capn Caveman about the Germans using a "fire brigade" style defense and contain strategy. Other than that, I have no other explanation.

Just a few further results of my quick reference search sheds a little more light on the defensive organization in that area at that time.

In May of 1944, Wittmann re-joined the sSSPzAbt 101 of the LSSAH, which was stationed in the area of Lisieux in Normandy, France.
LSSAH was a part of panzer reserve, which included 12th SS Panzer Division
After Wittmann failed to return from the battle, search for him by the members of the 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" and his battalion took place during the day and on the night of 8/9th.

By all appearances it seems to confirm what your first post.

Drumroll please!!!

According to information I found on achtungpanzer.com, Shermanfreak was correct about who most likely took out SS Hauptsturmfurher Wittman's tank. The explanation is far too long for me to post. So if you're interested, go to the website and check the article out; it's under Panzer Generals and Aces, Wittman.

Roy

Here is some info that I found:

A coordinated salvo, fired by 5 Canadian Shermans, brought about the death of Wittman.

Wittman alone was taking on these Shermans.

http://www.valourandhorror.com/DB/PERSON/Wittman.htm

I don't know as the "fire brigade" defense was being used yet but Wittmann's unit was in the area of St. Lo in the end of July-early Aug. to try and prevent the breakout in the hedgerows. He was then moved to the Caen area to help with the defense of that city (Montgomery's D-day objective) and this combat is when he died.

Now that' the way to go out:


" A co-ordinated salvo, fired by five shermans"



That's good history

Being a humble Canuck ... I'd love to believe this fine story .... unfortuantely I think it has been pretty much discounted.

The most believable, based solely on the O.R.'s of the day, point me to believe that it was a Firefly of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry. Caught Herr Wittman a little unware. Accompanied by 2 other Tigers, they more or less drove into the crosshairs of the waiting Shermans. One very well placed shot from the Firefly brought about the demise of this ace.

From reading all of the "stories" surrounding Wittman's death, I found this one to be the most believable and best backed by documentation.

I am reading a book about the European Theatre, and they had a little bit about this written here...

it says that he was out alone and he came across the polish armoured division. He took out many shermans before several had managed to get behind him and all fire at point blank range into the rear of the tank...

this is actually quite a good book, its called "The Fall Of The Reich" written by Dr Duncan Anderson

just my two cents...