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Tigers in Saving Pvt. Ryan ???

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Tigers in Saving Pvt. Ryan ???
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 4:00 AM
Hi there
I was watching this movie 4 about the 6th time and something has me baffled and it is to do with the tigers at the end. First of all I dont know much about tanks so excuse me if this is a really stupid question.
Is it me or has any1 else noticed that the Tigers at the end dont have any drive wheels ( u know the ones that drive the tracks{excuse the the description I dont know what they r called}). And what version Tigers r they?
Thanx.

Keep well.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:08 AM
HA! mr spielberg had you fooled with that one eh?!
well they arn't tigers old boy they are T34s made up to look like tigers. you can actually buy a conversion kit to change a 1:35th scale T34 into the tiger model representing the one in the film>>>they did a similar job on the film kelly's heroes.
the tigers in that movie were T34s as well.. and you spotted the lack of drive sprocket
that's what gives em away...
REGARDS......D......
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:53 AM
Ah so thats it hey.
Oh yes I saw them in Ks Heroes. Thanks for that and I now know that Spielberg is cheap. Cool thanks 4 that.

Keep well.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 9:57 AM
Oh spielbergs not cheap. There are no running Tigers that I know of. I know they are working on getting one running at a museum in England. But when you want a Tiger for a movie...you just gotta make yourself one.
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:25 AM
Yup ... have to agree ... far from cheap. IIRC the Tiger at Bovington made a short run last year but developed some transmission problems(????), so back to the shop.
Also I believe Saumur in France has a running King Tiger, but the chances of getting these big cats into a movie scene are very slim. Due to their value, the museums are very protective (and rightfully so) about their babies.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 1:06 PM
Hi there
OK he isnt cheap sorry 4 saying that but how can he let something like that go amiss. Hey Sherm u r right about the K Tiger in france, that how Tamiya got all its sounds for their 1/16 r/c tanks. U can see a small clip on their site and u can c them on a Pershing taking a ride.(lucky buggers)

Keep well.
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Sunday, August 10, 2003 4:42 PM
QUOTE: but how can he let something like that go amiss


I'm beginning to sound like a Speilburg fan here, maybe because I am.
When it comes to the movie making industry and their treatment of armoured vehicles through the years (Patton & Battle of the Bulge really come to mind), I think Mr. Speilburg has done a stand up job. He has taken what is available to him and a least made it look close to the real thing. I appreciate the efforts made during movies like SPR and Band of Brothers to at least give the appearance of Tigers, Stugs and other armoured vehicles.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    November 2005
Cool Info From SPR Online Encyclopedia
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 4:54 PM
Here's some more info about these tanks from the "Saving Private Ryan: Online Encyclopedia":

http://www.sproe.com/

The two Tiger tanks featured in Saving Private Ryan are reproductions built on the chassis of Russian T-34 tanks. Operational Tiger I's are extremely rare, and could not have been used for rigorous film production, let alone a movie in which the plot requires one of them to be destroyed. The T-34 was chosen because of its overall size and barrel height. The reproductions were based on measurements taken of a Tiger I at the Tank Museum in Bovington, England, and were constructed by Plus Film Services. The upper hull and turret were sized to proportionally match the chassis of the T-34. Band of Brothers, the HBO mini-series produced by Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks, used a similar construction process to recreate Tiger I tanks out of readily available T-34s.

The most obvious visual difference between a real Tiger I and the reproductions are the tracks, which do not feature the Tiger I's overlapping wheel design. Although the front of the tank features the appropriate machine gun and driver's viewport, these two features are a source of great controversy.

The small machine gun of a Tiger I was normally manned by the tank's radio operator, but the gun is fired only briefly during the Battle of Ramelle—blink and you'll miss it (screen capture 1 | screen capture 2). The machine gun on the second Tiger can be seen to move slightly just before it is destroyed. It is possible that both tanks had limited ammo for their machine guns, or that one was out of ammo and the other damaged, or that both tanks had injured radio operators. An operational machine gun on just one of the tanks could have made for some dramatic moments. As it is, the limited machine gun fire in the film is so brief as to be non-existant (and one wonders if it was a post-production CGI effect).

The driver's viewport on a Tiger I featured 6 layers of armored glass, as well as another sheet just behind them. These systems would have prevented Captain Miller from simply sticking his submachine gun up to the port and spraying the inside of the driver's compartment with bullets. Curiously, just a fraction of a second before the second Tiger is destroyed by a P-51, the driver's viewport is shown as having been replaced with a flat, unconvincing piece of material with what looks to be the driver's port painted on! This can only be seen for a few frames (see screenshot number 8) , and is more than likely the result of whatever work was done to rig the tank for an explosion.

Another inaccuracy is the fact that the paratroopers easily open the tank commander's hatch, which would have been locked from the inside in order to prevent the enemy from using such an easy way to kill a tank crew. There is some criticism that the tank commanders are seen with their hatches open, thus exposing themselves to enemy fire, but this is actually a common way in which a tank commander would operate his vehicle, as it afforded him the best view of the battlefield. Obviously a tank commander had to use caution as to when and where he could safely open the hatch.

The ridged surfaces of the Tiger I's in Saving Private Ryan were designed to emulate an application called zimmerit, which was a paste-like material created by the Germans to prevent magnetic mines from sticking to the surface of a tank. This material was applied to certain armored vehicles from late 1943 to late 1944.

Both Tiger tanks feature the insignia of the I SS Panzer Corps, a unit that would not have been near the Merderet River on June 13th, 1944.

Because of the limited number that had been constructed, and the disposition of German forces on June 13, 1944, the date of the Battle of Ramelle, it is highly unlikely that any Tiger I tanks would have been in or around Ramelle at that time. The use of the Tiger I in Saving Private Ryan has much more to do with its reputation and popularity than historical accuracy.

The two Tiger I replicas from Saving Private Ryan were stored at The Tank Museum in Bovington, England for a time, but they have apparently been sold and removed from the museum.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:28 PM
Here's the Tiger 1 restauration:

http://www.tiger-tank.com/secure/journal.htm
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 5:37 PM
Just got a copy of "The Battle of the Bulge" with Henry Fonda, Robert Shaw and Telly Savalas.
Those Tiger tanks are a unique variant...like allied armor? Pershings?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 10, 2003 6:40 PM
One of the "Tigers" from the movie is now in private hands in California. I have one or two pictures of Russian reenactors around the vehicle. If someone could explain how to post photos to this board I will post a shot or two.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Sunday, August 10, 2003 7:05 PM
In the Battle of the Bulge movie (which I also have a copy):
1.) Medium Tanks Pattons were used in place of /or to simulate King Tigers.
2.) Light Tanks Walker Bulldogs/Chafee were used in place of /or to simulate Shermans.

I remembered watching it on TV twenty years ago but I was not very familiar with tank specifications then. I tried to get a VCD copy of the movie last year for my library and was lucky enough to be able to get one. My excitement died imemdiately upon seeing the so called "King Tigers" and slept almost though the rest of the film.

We could actually laud Spielberg for going the extra mile to make the tigers in the movie SPR / BOB look at least the closest to the real thing out of what is commercially feasible at the time the said movies are being made. With all the inaccuracies cited, I think that most of you will agree with me, that it still feels good just to see Tigers in action even if it was only in make believe.

I agree with MrFootball about the inaccuracies.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Monday, August 11, 2003 12:37 AM
Yup, "Battle of the Bulge" was all M-47 Pattons as Tiger IIs and M-24 Chaffees as Shermans. No M-41 Walker Bulldogs in that film, but there is an M7 Priest that makes an ocassional appearance.

Say what ya want, but I love that film!
Just for laffs, here's a shot of my "Hessler's King Tiger" that I love to post at the slightest mention of this film!



I think they did a decent job with what they had, considering what was common knowledge amongst the general public about WWII tanks at the time, even though it's completely innacurate from almost any standpoint!
~Brian
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