Blackened Muzzles???

even if it's just oil, still black.

Kykeon,

Good point.  Heat can definitely discolor the paint.  In fact, when my friend was graduating from FA-OBC, his class took group picture in front of 2 paladins and both of them had partially discolored barrels and faded paints due to extreme heat caused by live fire exercise.

Here is what Steven Zaloga, well-known military book author and historian, has to say on the subject;

"I know that the general consensus among armor modelers seems to be that muzzle darkening did not occur due to soot from the propellant. Point well taken, but the muzzle ends of weapons did discolor due to the extreme heat of the propellant gas, sometime burning away the paint. On some photos of WW2 gun tubes, you can see that barrel heat has blistered the paint."

Excellent point dwight, you put it very well. The reason i was confused was because all i had heard was no black muzzles, so i stopped putting the black on them, then i found these and got to wondering. What you said really makes sense.

Montana, Tigers on the eastern front has sseveral pics of black muzzles brakes, some are debateable but others stick out like a sore thumb.

Even so, out of the thousands upon thousands of German vehicles produced, these are the only pics I've seen that could possibly have blackened muzzles.

I have reason to believe that these vehicles were out of the ordinary and are specifically different than most vehicles, other than the obvious.

I have a question, why would brakes be sooty and black as opposed to unmodded?

John,

Those are very good reference pictures. Two of those pics are what I referred to as among the few I have seen with darker muzzles.

However, since the blackening of the muzzles of tank guns does not appear in most of the pictures available, it would not be logical (in my uninformed opinion) to conclude that it is a common occurrence. More of an exception IMHO rather than the rule. Also, we cannot clearly explain why those muzzles are darker in color.

It is in this regard that I (without any feeling of guilt or fear of losing sleep over it) freely do darken (or do not darken) the muzzles of the guns of my models.

I love this hobby!

MontanaCowboy wrote:

Well, easy, the tiger is in a whitewash, and the brake is not, making quite a difference in color, making the muzzle appear darker than it is.

not easy, the dark yellow basecoat is visible near the radio operators mg. It is clearly a diffrent color. The road wheels were not painted with white wash and have been covered with mud so you cant tell from there. And it doesn't make any sense why you would not whitewash the muzzlebrake.  Even if left unpainted it is still too dark.

Well, easy, the tiger is in a whitewash, and the brake is not, making quite a difference in color, making the muzzle appear darker than it is.

The second I can not figure.

the third could have possibly been in a fire, or in shadow partially when that pic was snapped.

rebelreenactor wrote:

no black muzzles? please explain these: click to enlarge or see whole pic. (sorry about low qulity on this one)     the stugs came from one magazine, that means there are bound to be others out there.

no black muzzles? please explain these:

click to enlarge or see whole pic.

(sorry about low qulity on this one)

the stugs came from one magazine, that means there are bound to be others out there.

m60a3 wrote:

Dwight Ta Ala or some Sherman expert,    On the two Shermans you pictured, what are the designations? Differences would be the guns and the body, but why such a drastic change in appearance etc.  I'm no Sherman expert or WWII expert or such like many of you. These are not details that I know like some of you know your own childrens birthdates. I'm just curious. Thanks for any answers.  PS  I bet some of you knew the differences immediately and then read further and had to think about those birthdays!!                                                                                                -60

No expert either.

The first sherman is an M4A3E2 (76) better known as the "Jumbo".

The second one is an M4A1(76).

The M4A3's hull is made up of welded steel plates while that of the M4A1 is a cast hull. 

Colored WWII pictures indicate that there is no blackening of muzzles in tanks. There are a few pictures that I have seen that shows somewhat darkened muzzles probably because of dirt or paint reaction to heat.

As for me I sometimes darken the muzzles of my models because I like the look of it.

Sometimes, I don't.

If you are trying to build to be realistic or for a contest where judges would probably be meticulous, then I suggest that you don't blacken the muzzle of your model. (Although I have seen contests where models with blackened muzzles winning the top prizes.)

But if you want to just build for yourself, then you are free to do whatever you want.

Here is a little blurb on the subject;

http://www.panzerworld.net/blackmuzzles.html

On my recent trip to Germany, I had a chance to visit the Wehrtechnische Museum in Koblenz and the Deutsche Panzermuseum in Munster. One of the things I looked for was this very subject. Unfortunately, since most of the vehicles and guns are restored, any evidence of discoloration is long gone. However, there were some guns that were left in their original paint. There was no blackening evident on these weapons.

What was interesting though, was the belief in muzzle blackening, as some of the tanks actually were spray painted black on the muzzles! Here is an example, the lovely "Ute" at Koblenz;

This leichte I.G. 18 is in it's original paint. The muzzle doesn't look any more weathered than the rest of the piece;

Most projectiles use smokeless powder, even in WWII. The only real burning may occur Inside the muzzle brake. I like the look of it on a used tank, even though it's not realistic.

^^ what tanks have their brakes painted black?

That's all I have to say.

/post.