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U.S. Army Europe (Germany) 7th army camouflage 1973-1977 or thereabouts - links and questions

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U.S. Army Europe (Germany) 7th army camouflage 1973-1977 or thereabouts - links and questions
Posted by lasse on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 5:46 PM
Before, and to some extent it would seem also in parallel with MERDC, 7th Army in Germany used a somewhat strange camouflage scheme from some time in 1973 to perhaps 1977.

This scheme apparantly consisted of a sand base, with patches of brown, less green, and a little black.

I have been researching this scheme for some time now - and have also found a few websites with photos (for example the gallery pages of www.usarmygermany.com and www.eaglehorse.com)

Judging from the section on the 3d Armored Division at www.usarmygermany.com, which shows some M-113 APCs with a less intricate pattern than other pictures, it would be my guess that the patterns were not completely standardized. Yet I simply cannot believe, as some would have me, that the colors and patterns were not regulated somehow. I mean, this is the US army we are talking about, right?

I found some pages in Google from a German modelling site, that seem to provide a little further info.  Unfortunately the site is under reconstruction now, so I took it from the Google cache of the pages. According to Jens Popp, there were no less than TWO schemes: one in 1972 and one from 1973 onward. The 1972 scheme he claims consists of these four colors: 30277 Sand (40%), 30279 Sand (40%), 34079 Forest Green (10%) and 37038 Black (10%). According to Popp, this is a scheme devised under the MASSTER programme. The other scheme, which other places (like http://www.panzerbaer.de/colours/us_camo_masster-a.htm) call MASSTER, is similar, but with different colors. Popp seems to claim that this scheme was regulated by USAREUR Regulation 525-5 (1971) 1973, and consisted of these colors: 30277 Sand (34%), 30117 Brown (30%), 34127 Forest (?) Green (27%) and 37038 Black (9%). I find this far more believable - the colors seem very consistent with the various color photographs I've looked at. However, apart from Popp's (now possibly temporarily defunct) web page, I can find no other references pointing to 525-5 that seem to have anything to do with camouflage. As other pages (like panzerbaer above) readily list a different color for the green, and as pictures seem to allow for various interpretations of the green (even if the brown looks spot-on like 30117, the green could easily be 34102 or even the notorious 34087 OD - now 34088), I would like more evidence. A scan of some actual regulations would of course be terrific! Tales about how G.Is just mixed colors at hand locally are also interesting, but less so, although I realize that this probably was the case to a large extent. Even so, there must have existed an official list of colors. I am of the persuasion that if I must approximate a color, it helps to know what color I should approximate.

I post this here in the hope that some modellers out there - perhaps veterans from the cold war in Germany - can shed some more light on this matter. I find this particular period of the cold war very interesting from a modelling POV, as there was a great variation in vehicles (M-113 variants, M-109, M-110, M-578, M-60, Sheridan, M-548, Gama Goat, M-151 MUTT and numerous other kinds of trucks), which can be combined with various color schemes of plain OD or the scheme discussed above, or even with "ordinary" MERDC, when vehicles from other branches joined in exercises. Just as for airplanes, this was an era of transition, it was before the massive standardization on very few types that we have seen since the late 80es. Of course, I can't help wondering, have I found a niche of my own with this subject matter? It doesn't seem to pop up very often in FSM, or on various modelling sites that I watch. And the availability of kits also leaves room for massive improvement: I build 1/72, and it is even worse than 1/35.

So: anybody out there who can shed more light on the "experimental" camouflage of the U.S. Army in Germany in the early 1970'es?

-Lasse
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Posted by m1garand on Wednesday, August 2, 2006 7:16 PM
Someone from this forum built a diorama done in Germany setting with U.S. Army Vehicles.  The builder painted M60 tank with unusual camo pattern.
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Posted by Spamicus on Thursday, August 3, 2006 8:09 PM
I was in 2nd ACR from 73 until 76. We painted our vehicles in the scheme you speak of. The How battery painted first then the line troops, the tank company and the headquarters last. During the transition it wasn't unusual to see a mix of OD and camo vehicles working together. I even rolled on an alert with my Sheridan half camo and half OD as we didn't finish the paint job the day before. All the vehicles had an official scheme we were to follow, but as each crew marked their own vehicle with chalk and then painted it by hand, the incidence of variation was pretty high. As to the colors, I don't have any idea what the FS numbers were. The sand was very light, almost white. The brown was a red brown very similar to the color most modelers use on WWII German armor. The green was an odd semi-gloss medium to light green. We thought, at our level, that the big wigs had lost it, but after it had been on for awhile and aged some what it toned down and fit in pretty good. I've got a couple of photos of them around here someplace. E-mail me and I'll see if I can scan them and send them to you.

Steve

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Posted by lasse on Friday, August 4, 2006 7:48 AM
m1garand: could you provide a link to the post, and/or pictures?

-Lasse

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Posted by crockett on Friday, August 4, 2006 9:27 AM

Maybe this can help since it is in color, 3rd AD 3/33rd armor 1977 (Kirchgoens) You can see defined colors on the guntube and the cupola. The schemes were standardized using division guidelines I assume handed down from higher. Depot maintenance used templates when painting. Tanks were delivered in overall green which was used as the base color, the NATO tan was sprayed over it. Sporadic areas of flat black were painted in the demarcation lines between the two main colors. These were in 'tree branch" shapes. Roadwheels were camo'd as well, with overspray allowed on the rubber, this wore off very quickly in the field.

Small black stars (US INSIGNIA) were applied to the front slope only, this may have been a divisional requirement.

 

Hope this helps a little,

Steve

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Posted by m1garand on Friday, August 4, 2006 11:17 AM

 lasse wrote:
m1garand: could you provide a link to the post, and/or pictures?

-Lasse

I've tried to search for it as well, but for some reason, I could not find it.  This dio was posted here on FSM forum and it had M60 and M88 recovery vehicle as well.  This was done by the person who actually served in Germany during that time frame.  I'll try to look for it again.

 

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Posted by stikpusher on Friday, August 4, 2006 1:33 PM
Tamiya has this pattern on the instructions for their 1/35 M-577 kit. And I think the instructions of their old issue M-113 had some pics of it. I used to have an IPMS Quarterly Journal from back in the late 70's which had the pattern for the M-60 series tanks, but it has since disappeared from my reference library.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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Posted by m1garand on Friday, August 4, 2006 8:08 PM
 lasse wrote:
m1garand: could you provide a link to the post, and/or pictures?

-Lasse



Got it.  Click onto this URL. http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/607632/ShowPost.aspx
This is very nicely done diorama.
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Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, August 4, 2006 9:06 PM

M1Garand,

The great-looking models in the dio you have linked are actually in experimental Dual-Tex Digital Camo pattern.  It was applied to 2 ACR vehicles from '78 through the early '80s.  Check it out more here.

Here is an example on an M60A3.

 

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Posted by matthew9 on Friday, August 4, 2006 9:52 PM
 HeavyArty wrote:

M1Garand,

The great-looking models in the dio you have linked are actually in experimental Dual-Tex Digital Camo pattern.  It was applied to 2 ACR vehicles from '78 through the early '80s.  Check it out more here.

Here is an example on an M60A3.

 

Oh now you've done it. I've just seen the camo for the M60a3 waitng in the wings. I just need to figure out the FS colors now.

Matt
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Posted by lasse on Saturday, August 5, 2006 3:22 AM
 m1garand wrote:


Got it.  Click onto this URL. http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/607632/ShowPost.aspx
This is very nicely done diorama.


Indeed. Thanks, I haven't been much on the forum, so I'm not familiar with the workings of the search function, and my queries didn't find it.

However, the diorama, nice as it is, does not depict the camouflage from the 70'es, but seems to be a later variant of MERDC or something. The caption says Grafenwohr 1981, so that sounds right. I have an old Tamiya magazine with reference images of a M-901 (I think) ITV (or was it a FIST?), sporting a tricolor pattern (Green, Field Drab, Black), which looked like MERDC with the sand color omitted or redone in black. I have an idea that this pattern may have been an interim solution when the NATO (Bronze Green, Leather Brown, Black) pattern was introduced on new vehicles like the Humvee and the M-1. In other words, to get old MERDC painted vehicles into a "proper" tricolor pattern quickly, the light color was just overpainted with black. Mind you, that's just me speculating.

I put of some samples of the pattern I am interested in above. (Update: Hey, did that post go AWOL?) Here is another very good one (look at the trailer top centre):
(from http://www.eaglehorse.org/6_then_now/tom_quinn/index.htm.)

Here is a truck:
found at http://www.panzerbaer.de/helper/us_trk_02-5ton_m35-a.htm. These pictures in particular show two things, despite not being the clearest in color. 1: the color patches are not branch-like, but rounded blobs. 2: The brown and green are of almost exactly the same lightness, making it nearly impossible to distinguish them in B/W photographs.

-Lasse
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Posted by lasse on Saturday, August 5, 2006 5:02 AM
crockett: I thought I had replied with a post containing some pictures, but it seems I either forgot to click post, or it has disappeared for some other reason. Anyway, trying again, I think your picture is of an M-60A2 like this one:


(from www.usarmygermany.com)

This is the "ordinary" MERDC scheme, I think the pattern on the gun is the same as in your picture.

The scheme I'm after is this:


And I just found a new series here (http://tanxheaven.com/m60a1/m60a1pic.htm) UPDATE: I just noticed that this may be restored tanks, not period pictures, depending on how the caption is interpreted. Looks like they are 1976 originals, though.



Notice the lightness and how sand and brown dominates green and black together accounts for no more than 1/3rd. The pattern is more patchy than wawy like the MERDC scheme.

-Lasse

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Posted by HeavyArty on Saturday, August 5, 2006 8:26 AM

In other words, to get old MERDC painted vehicles into a "proper" tricolor pattern quickly, the light color was just overpainted with black. Mind you, that's just me speculating.

No pics, but you have hit it on the head.  The lighter colors in the MERDC were oversprayed with black to give an interim 3-color NATO-ish scheme.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Posted by m1garand on Saturday, August 5, 2006 9:15 AM
I didn't even know this paint pattern existed.  Lasse, You may want to ask Rob Gronovious about it since he did serve on M60 tanks (and he is an officer in armor branch of the army).  I hope you'll find what you are looking for.   
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Posted by crockett on Saturday, August 5, 2006 10:23 AM

 lasse wrote:
crockett: I thought I had replied with a post containing some pictures, but it seems I either forgot to click post, or it has disappeared for some other reason. Anyway, trying again, I think your picture is of an M-60A2 like this one:


(from www.usarmygermany.com)

This is the "ordinary" MERDC scheme, I think the pattern on the gun is the same as in your picture.

The scheme I'm after is this:


And I just found a new series here (http://tanxheaven.com/m60a1/m60a1pic.htm) UPDATE: I just noticed that this may be restored tanks, not period pictures, depending on how the caption is interpreted. Looks like they are 1976 originals, though.

 

Guys,

That IS ME in the drivers hatch of the A2! I was in Germany in 3rd AD during 77. Lasse, the picture of the A2 you posted is close, but as Gino said, the light sand or gray color was substituted with black in our scheme.

As far as these other schemes on the A1's, I have never seen anything that wild in Germany during the period.

 

Rock on...

 

Steve

Notice the lightness and how sand and brown dominates green and black together accounts for no more than 1/3rd. The pattern is more patchy than wawy like the MERDC scheme.

-Lasse

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Posted by HeavyArty on Saturday, August 5, 2006 12:18 PM

 m1garand wrote:
Lasse, You may want to ask Rob Gronovious about it since he did serve on M60 tanks (and he is an officer in armor branch of the army).

Actually, the good LTC Rob is now an Ordinance Officer.  He was in the Armor Corps during his earlier years though.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Posted by Spamicus on Saturday, August 5, 2006 7:46 PM
Lasse, I sent a clean photo of our 2 ACR Sheridans to Walter Elkins and he said he'll get on the website as soon as he gets it resized and what have you. I'll also be sending him a good photo of an M-109 in the same scheme at some point this weekend. My tech skills being what they are I couldn't seem to figure out how to attach the photos to the last email I sent you, but Walter got them.

Steve

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Posted by MortarMagnet on Saturday, August 5, 2006 8:39 PM
There were many variations possible with the Four Color system.  Approved colors for this system are as follows:

Desert Sand 8010-00-111-8353 8010-00-111-8004 33637
Sand 8010-00-111-8336 8010-00-111-7988 30277
Earth yellow 8010-00-111-8130 8010-00-111-7968 30257
Earth red 8010-00-111-8345 8010-00-111-8003 30117
Field drab 8010-00-111-8129 8010-00-111-7943 30118
Earth brown 8010-00-111-8338 8010-00-111-7998 30099
Olive drab 8010-00-111-8069 8010-00-111-7940 34087
Light green 8010-00-111-8007 8010-00-111-7930 34151
Dark green 8010-00-111-8042 8010-00-111-7938 34102
Forest green 8010-00-111-8010 8010-00-111-7937 34079
Black 8010-00-111-8356 8010-00-111-8005 37038


The FS # is on the right.  They match the FS595A standard.

Camouflage Patterns and Colors

The camouflage pattern consists of wavy, irregular patches of color applied to the vehicle. The colors used for the patterns have been selected from the standard camouflage colors as shown in the chart above. The standard colors are:

No. Abbreviation Color
1 W White
2 DS Desert Sand
3 S Sand
4 EY Earth Yellow
5 ER Earth Red
6 FD Field Drab
No. Abbreviation Color
7 EB Earth Brown
8 OD Olive Drab
9 LG Light Green
10 DG Dark Green
11 FG Forest Green
12 BL Black

The patterns use only four of these colors, for any geographic or climatic conditions. The only exception is winter arctic, which is solid white. When changing from one geographic or climatic condition to another, the shape of the pattern itself does not change; only one or two of the colors that make up the pattern change. The next table shows the combinations of colors to be used for various seasons and climatic regions. The first and second colors each cover about 45% of the vehicle; the third color covers 5% of the vehicle; and the fourth color, normally black, covers the remaining 5%. The color numbers 1, 2, and 3 identify the first three colors, and are used in the pattern designs to show what color goes where on the vehicle.

Condition Color Distribution
45% 45% 5% 5%
Color Number
1 2 3 4
Winter US & Europe - verdant (1) FG FD S (3) BL
Snow - temprate w/trees & shrubs (2) FG W S (3) BL
Snow - temperate w/open terrain W FD S (3) BL
Summer US & Europe - verdant (1) FG LG S (3) BL
Tropics - verdant FG DG LG (3) BL
Gray desert S FD EY (3) BL
Red desert ER EY S (3) BL
Winter Arctic W W W W
Notes:
1. Verdant means generally green -- in summer due to trees, shrubs, and grass; in winter due to evergreens.
2. This color combination is for use only in areas that occasionally have snow which does not completely cover the terrain, thus leaving trees or patches of soil bare.
3. This 5% color should be the camouflage color that matches most closely the color of the soil in the local area. A typical color for such use is sand, but earth red, earth yellow, or one of the others may be closer to the predominant soil color and, in that case, should be used.

The color patterns in the above table were designed for world-wide application, and cover a wide range of terrain conditions. It is possible that any given color combination may not be an exact match for some specific local condition. In such a case, the 12 colors available in camouflage paints give the local commander wide latitude to modify the color combination and develop one that more closely matches the local terrain and operating conditions. Note: Individual colors must not be mixed with one another as this will destroy the camouflage characteristics of the paint.

New items of tactical equipment will be painted lusterless forest green at the factory. Since the base paint of forest green is usually one of the large 45% color areas, troops will have to pattern paint only three colors. The actual paint to be added will then be one large 45% area and the two small 5% areas. Note: Since the areas and climates in which newly manufactured vehicles will operate cannot be predicted, it is not practical to pattern paint new vehicles at the factory.

This information has been taken from Olive-Drab.com.
Brian
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Posted by lasse on Sunday, August 6, 2006 2:29 AM
MortarMagnet: The information from Olive-Drab.com on the MERDC scheme is really excellent, and you can even download the whole of TC5-200, but notice the date: august 1975. At that time, 7th Army in Germany had already been camouflaging all vehicles for about two years, and definitely continued to use that scheme alongside MERDC for some time after that.

-Lasse

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Posted by MortarMagnet on Sunday, August 6, 2006 11:06 AM
Those standards come from somewhere.  Throughout the 60's and 70's there were camos used in various places, the schemes outlined by the standards probably came from the field and not the think tank.  At the very least the color table were the available paints, the percentages would probably vary maybe even the combinations, but at least you have the FS#s.  I put this here so others looking for four color camo could look at it, too.Smile [:)]

Edit:  Also, variations always occured.  I have slides of USMC tanks that should have been in 4color that were in 6 or 7 color, late 1970s.
Brian
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Posted by lasse on Monday, August 7, 2006 11:17 AM
MortarMagnet: You are absolutely right. Few camouflage schemes except field improvisations exist without basis in some specification. But as a wise man once said: The trouble with standards is that there are so many to choose from.

The reason I am interested in this pattern is of course the usual: doesn't every modeller love the out-of-the-ordinary, stuff with a special history? This pattern has several interesting properties:
- It is somewhat similar to the late war German scheme of Dark Yellow, Green and Brown.
- It can be mistaken for a desert scheme, and you can speculate if this was intended, either as a universal camo scheme, or for a specific reason as preparation for potential conflicts in the Middle East.
- It is the immediate predecessor of the widely used and well-known MERDC scheme, yet it bears hardly any resemblance, except for the fact that it uses four colors.
- It was in widespread use (in Germany) for a few years, but now everyone seems to have forgotten about it.

As I mentioned in my first post, I have found a German website (unfortunately out of order at the moment) which claims the existence of two variants: an early defined under the MASSTER programme in 1972, and a later 7th Army variant, defined by USAREUR regulation 5-525 in 1973. That website is the only place where I have found any claim about a source of authority, and the colors listed (also in my original post) are a bit strange, especially the use of 30279 and 34079 in the earlier scheme, and 34127 in the later scheme. Also the sand color in both cases is stated as 30277, although I have seen other sources talking about an almost white sand, such as 33531.

So, as you see, the colors defined by the MERDC scheme do not necessarily bear any relevance to the USAREUR pattern. However, the pattern and the colors must have been defined somewhere, and so far Jens Popp's website is the only source I have seen that attribute this definition to something at least somewhat defined. Unfortunately I can find no alternative source to confirm this, so I cannot just take it for fact, and I find the distinction between the 1972 scheme and the 1973 scheme questionable.

But you don't paint the entire 7th Army in camouflage without some orders, do you? And those orders would have to specify the designated colors somehow (never mind that they would be  mixed in the units, with nearest acceptable equivalents readily being used) and at least give some general guideline as to the pattern and proportions.

-Lasse

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Posted by stikpusher on Monday, August 7, 2006 12:20 PM

Lasse, from what I have seen, you are certainly correct in that the MERDC scheme had no relevence to the USAEUR/7th Army scheme. The MERDC schemes were developed later, had far more variation, and were eventually used on Army, Marine Corps, and AirForce vehicles until the later tri color scheme came along. The USAEUR/7th Army schemes were a theater specific scheme used apparently on by a single service until the MERDC schemes were developed and implemented.

I served briefly in Europe in 84 during a REFORGER. At that time I saw 8th ID had the temperate scheme with the sand overpainted with black to result in a three colored variant. My unit, 5th ID, had the standard four color temperate scheme. 3rd ID, in the process of re equiping with the then new M1's and M2/3's had their vehicles in overall 34079. While stateside, we had our vehicles in the four color MERDC verdant scheme. Later, around late 85 a new four color scheme appeared, in what if I remember correctly was a contender for the standard NATO scheme, but which was not adopted. Around mid 87 is when the NATO CARC three color scheme started to appear on new build vehicles.

I'm sure that there are plenty of pics out there of this older camo scheme, but you will have to look in older sources such as books from that time period, old recruiting pamplets (which used to have great pics) etc.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

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Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, August 7, 2006 1:00 PM
 HeavyArty wrote:

 m1garand wrote:
Lasse, You may want to ask Rob Gronovious about it since he did serve on M60 tanks (and he is an officer in armor branch of the army).

Actually, the good LTC Rob is now an Ordinance Officer.  He was in the Armor Corps during his earlier years though.

Actually, I'm dual branched and was BQ'd as both an armor and ordnance officer, although I've never attended an ordnance course. Even my current assignment is an armor assignment (Ft. Knox Deputy G3). I always get grief when showing up at a new assignment wearing sew on insignia of the other branch.

(note the difference in spelling; ordnance is military materiel, ordinance is a local law)

I recall seeing photos of old 7th Army camo schemes hanging in the barracks in Germany. Other than the Squadron M60 in Action black and white photots, I had never seen color photos of the sand/red brown/green/black scheme before. Actual color photos make the scheme look so outrageous when taken in the motor pool, but when photographed in the field during Reforgers, they did not look bad. Our company orderly room had perhaps 3-4 color photos of M60s and 113s in this scheme, but the actual vehicles were either long gone or repainted long before I arrived in country.

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Posted by binder001 on Monday, August 7, 2006 2:32 PM

Gentlemen,

The USAEUR camouflage was covered in the old magazine "AFV G-2".  There were a couple of articles that listed the colors and had a couple patterns.  "AFV G-2" shows up on eBay or at swap meets on occasion.  Painting was authorized by Seventh Army HQ. The colors were remarkably close to the German mid-WW2 system.  A light sand color with olive-green (lighter than OD) and red-brown and black.  This system predated the MERDC schemes and were replaced by MERDC.  As a "for instance", I remember contacting the 1st Armored Div. Public Affairs Officer in the late 1970's about the first deployment of M60A2s.  The A2s came in MERDC camo, as did the M60A3s.  The scheme was seen on M60A1s, M113-family vehicles, M551s, M151s, M35A2s, and artillery.  Back in the 1970s I used to get photos from a fellow in 3rd Arm'd Div, some of which were sold to Squadron/Signal and ended up in the "M60 In Action" book. 

Another source is old Army recruiting pamplets.  They used to have pamplets that were full of color photos of equipment and some of them had good shots of Seventh Army camouflage.

FYI - during the R&D of the MERDC scheme there were at least two other experimental camouflage schemes.  At Ft. Sill, a number of vehicles at the Field Artillery School were painted in Forest Green and Light Sand, 50%-50% with hard edges.  A very interesting change from the OD then in use.  Another scheme was used at Ft. Knox where the colors were black sprayed over a base color that was VERY close to Humbrol "Khaki Drab".  I remember seeing these in the summer of 1975.  The MERDC schemes and camouflage uniforms were tested at Ft. Hood, under Project MASSTER (Modern Army Selected Systems Test Evaluation and Review) using elements of the 2nd Armored Division.

 

The Seventh Army paint scheme came during a transition time from semi-gloss OD to the matte-finish camouflage schemes of today.  They make interesting modeling subjects.

 

Gary Binder

 

 

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Posted by lasse on Wednesday, August 9, 2006 3:49 PM
 binder001 wrote:

Gentlemen,

The USAEUR camouflage was covered in the old magazine "AFV G-2".



Thanks for all the suggestions. Here in Denmark U.S. Army recruiting pamphlets are probably not easy to come by, so I have to rely on the web. Fortunately, thanks to all the nice people all over the world, this is just as good.

I couldn't find any available issues of AFV G-2 on eBay, but I just found this site:

http://www.geocities.com/wark_on_geo/morecam.htm

It turns out that "wark" has a page from AFV G-2 available there, which also states 30277,30117,34127,37038, and has a pattern drawing for an M-60 tank, as well as a set of great photos. I still am slightly unsure about the accuracy, even if the magazine was contemporary to the actual use of the pattern (the drawing has an error, and is unlikely to be an official drawing), but it also lists the regulation, giving the title as: VII. Corps Regulation 525-6, dated 1. june 1973.

"wark" speculates that 34127 should be 34151. I don't know, but anyway they are close. The one that is of the exact same lightness as 30117 is probably the "right" one, judging from the B&W pictures I've seen, where the two really cannot be distinguished.

A big THANK YOU to you all, especially Steven Wilton, whose Sheridan "Spanky" I will definitely build from the Airfix kit, halfway old dark O-D, halfway new camouflage, to really show the transition. (There isn't any true 1/72 scale Sheridan somewhere, is there?)

-Lasse
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 14, 2006 5:33 PM
Hey, I know what that is, and I painted enough vechiles to recall the fun we had hand painting these blocks on our vechiles.  And yes there was a Reg for this that laid out patterns for the Dultex pattern.  The idea behind for this is two fold, 1 to break up the outline of the vehicle much like WWII dazzel camo, 2. gave you a very hard site picture for the guy w/a missle in a suit case.  Base color is period OD green, w/block pattern of tan, black, off green and in some cases white.  I was stationed w/Cav in Bamberg, Germany and we used this camo the 4 years I was stationed there.  For the record we were one of the few to have a real time mission, we patroled the Hof  border, for those of you not in the know this included the Fulda Gap, this would have been the place we stood and would delay the advance of the incoming armor, we were told we would have three min.s to stop as many as we could before we were history.  Seeing this brings back alot of good memories.
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