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Tools on panzer

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  • Member since
    November 2014
Tools on panzer
Posted by vtrockin on Sunday, October 8, 2006 5:36 PM
Are all the tools (shovels, hooks, crowbars?, etc) on the Panzer IV, for example, their 'natural' color or do some get painted to match the armor color?  Can't tell from those black & white photos and I've think I've seen a mix from model photos - or they're so whethered I can't really tell what color they are!

Secondly...I built my kit with almost everything attached except the wheels and tracks.  At what point to you paint the individual elements?  After doing a wash on the base tank colors or before?  I'm leaning on before so they blend with the tank washes.


  • Member since
    September 2005
Posted by Kykeon on Sunday, October 8, 2006 8:28 PM

Looking through war-time color photos I have of German vehicles, the majority of the tools are left in their natural colors. Color photos from Schiffer's; Afrikakorps, Rommels Tropical Army in Original Color, show on-board tools with black painted heads and natural-colored wooden handles on axes, shovels and pick-axes, on a number of different vehicles. There is a shot of a Horsch type 40 with a 2cm Flak 38 that shows Panzer Grey on the handle of a pick-axe and you can see the natural wood where the paint has worn off. This is the only shot in the book that does. Other war-time color photos I have clearly show black axe heads, shovel blades and pick-axe heads with wooden handles. Here is a war-time photo, several wooden tool handles can be seen, as well as the wooden barrel cleaning rods on the center tank;

I don't like using museum pieces as evidence, but right or wrong, the German vehicles at Panzermuseum Munster and the Koblenz Wehrtechnische Museum are also displayed in this manner, I had the privilege of visiting both museums this last summer. Vehicle tools in each museum had natural wood colored tool handles with black painted heads. C-hooks, jacks, crow-bars, wire cutter heads were all painted black. Some barrel cleaning rods were wood, some were black aluminium.

All of the color photos of restored vehicles in the book; WW II Wehrmacht Vehicles, (mainly privately owned vehicles) also show their pioneer tools with natural wooden handles and black painted heads, black jacks and crow bars.

If a vehicle was repainted in the field, I doubt the crew would have stripped all the tools off before painting, and they would end up the same color as the vehicle. I'll look to see if I can find other examples of tools which were painted while still on the vehicle, but I'm not finding much at the moment.

This photo seems to show a pick-axe handle over-painted with Panzer Grey;

Here the jack is obviously the same Panzer Grey as the tank. The black shovel head can be clearly seen, it is anybody's guess what color the shovel handle is;

There is no doubt that the handles on these tools are left in their original colors;

I'm not seeing a definitive answer here.......they appear to be present in both original colors and over-painted.

  • Member since
    April 2014
Posted by Carves on Monday, October 9, 2006 6:49 AM
 vtrockin wrote:
Are all the tools (shovels, hooks, crowbars?, etc) on the Panzer IV, for example, their 'natural' color or do some get painted to match the armor color?  Can't tell from those black & white photos and I've think I've seen a mix from model photos - or they're so whethered I can't really tell what color they are!


On the King Tiger tank, they got the brand new tank with all tools installed, when arrived on the field, the maintenance crew spray the camo with the tools attached. Pretty sure they did it to all the new tanks.

 vtrockin wrote:
Secondly...I built my kit with almost everything attached except the wheels and tracks.  At what point to you paint the individual elements?  After doing a wash on the base tank colors or before?  I'm leaning on before so they blend with the tank washes.


This is pretty much depend on the modeller.
I usually primed, and paint them saperately as I work the same thing to the tank.
I then install all the tools then do the washing, after that is back to routine.

Hope this helps,
---
Ben
  • Member since
    September 2005
Posted by Kykeon on Monday, October 9, 2006 12:21 PM

Hey Ben, I bet you were thinking about this photo;

All of the tools, except the crow bar laying along side and the sledge hammer, which appears to be missing, are on the vehicle. We can see they are being painted with the same camouflage as the rest of the tank. Like I said above, with in-the-field painting, I doubt the crews would have removed the tools from the vehicle prior to painting.

However, starting after August 19th, 1944, Tiger II were spray painted with the three tone camouflage scheme at the Henschel assembly plant prior to being shipped to the ordnance depot for issue to the troops. Now I need to find out whether the tools would be in place at the factory, prior to the camouflage being painted. I don't know....yet, but I have my doubts.

This close up from the well known propaganda film, seems to show the shovel handle left in natural wood, as it contrasts quite sharply against the dark camo on the hull, as does the sledge hammer handle as well;

This shot of the rear of a sPzAbt 503 Tiger, shows the jack and C-hooks painted in camo with the rest of the tank;

Even the spare track link has been painted.

Here is a train load of factory-fresh Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbar". You can see the black painted jack next to the headlight on the lead vehicle. Although hard to see, the same black jacks appear to be on the remaining vehicles as well. Obviously the jack was not in place when these vehicles were painted;

Below is Panther #121052, the first with all-steel wheels, sporting it's brand new, factory applied camouflage, build on or about Sept.22, 1944. You can still see it's Fahrgestell Number stenciled on the glacis;

The C-hook is painted overall Dark Yellow, but does not appear to have been in place when the camo was applied, as the hull is darkly colored underneath it. The wooden handle of the shovel can be clearly seen and the wire cutter handles don't match the color behind them.

It appears that factory applied finishes were done with the tools off, but field-applied camouflage did commonly cover the tools and their handles, at least that's what I'm seeing. Some items, like jacks and C-hooks in particular, seem to go either way.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Michigan
Posted by ps1scw on Monday, October 9, 2006 5:53 PM
I'll bet the jack on the brumbar was sub-contracted and attached after painting at the factory.  When these vehicles get to their units I would image that the crew would keep the jack on the vehicle if camo paint was applied.  Being wartime, I would think that if there we specific instructions as to painting those instructions would be thrown out the window for expediency and practibility. 
  • Member since
    September 2005
Posted by Kykeon on Monday, October 9, 2006 8:01 PM

Even with all the thousands of photos I have of German armor, it is amazingly difficult to find clear, close-up, war-time photos of their on-board tools. Here is a shot of a Panzer IV F2 taken at Kursk;

The barrel cleaning rods on this vehicle are the black aluminium with bare metal ends. They have not been painted over. Notice also the black crow bars below them. This is exactly how the Panzermuseum Munster and the Wehrtechnische Museum Koblenz display their vehicles.

  • Member since
    November 2014
Posted by vtrockin on Monday, October 9, 2006 8:06 PM
Good stuff guys...this helps a ton!  So the crow bars, shovel heads, etc are black, eh?   That IS good to know.
  • Member since
    September 2005
Posted by Kykeon on Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51 PM

Black.....unless they have been repainted while still attached to the vehicle during a in-field repaint or camouflage session. Zoom the photo I posted above of the guy camouflaging the Jagdpanther. Just to the right of his head you can see the pioneer tools, still in their clamps. You can see that they have been over-sprayed with the same colors as the rest of the tank, even the pattern is continuous across them. But for vehicles that were camouflage painted at the factory, like the steel-wheeled Panther posted above, the tools obviously were not attached at the time the vehicle was painted.

One should also note that the best of the book illustrators, like Hilary Doyle, Uwe Feist, Don Greer, Zbigniew Kolacha and Jean Restayn, all generally depict German vehicle tools in their color artwork with black (or sometimes just bare steel) axeheads, pickaxes, shovel heads, crowbars, jacks, track tension wrenches, starter cranks, S and C-hooks, tow cables and aluminium barrel cleaning rods. The wooden handles are depicted as being natural wood. Pull out some of their works and take a look for yourself.

 But not in every case !!!   Commonly, just like in some of the photos I've posted, the jack, C-hooks, tow cables and others tools, have been repainted, matching the camouflage of the vehicle.

Like I said before, museum pieces make lousy examples, as many egregious errors can be found in various armor museums around the world. That said, I'm now going to post another example......from Panzermuseum Munster.   Big Smile [:D]  

I don't know if it is the lighting in this photo or what, but here the tools and cleaning rods look more like Panzer Grey than black. The other vehicle's tools however, do appear black. See what I mean about lousy examples? Smile [:)]

Yet another. This is a new kid on the block. A recently restored Panther A, which I believe was once parked outside at Saumur, slowly rusting away, until someone had the good sense to restore it;

Here again; black tool heads, black C-hook, black tow cable and starting crank, wooden handles.......it's obviously a conspiracy of some sort. Wink [;)]

  • Member since
    April 2014
Posted by Carves on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 1:50 AM
Yep, that is the picture I was talking about K.

Yes it is hard to translate from b/w photo to color, especially when some color blends real well in the photograph.
Maybe we should go back to that era and bring our digital camera, just dont forget your keflar vest Big Smile [:D]

---
Ben
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