Help neded on data of the German 27th Panzer Division

Here is some quoted research from the late author Jentz:

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33216

According to Jentz, Die dt. Panzertruppe, Vol. II, Pz.Abt 127 on 10th of Nov., 1942, had the following units ready for service :
9 Pz II, 22 Pz. 38(t), 5 Pz III (kz), 10 Pz III (lg), 12 Pz III (75), 2 Pz IV (kz), 5 Pz IV (lg).

So for around the period of Nov. 1942, you have several choices for the panzer III version, as they had in their inventory both short (50mm) and long barrel (60mm), along with the support tank version N series (75mm). 

Base colour at this time would still be gray, and you could add a white wash if doing a later in winter time frame.  Crosses would be in typical application, just look at photos of other units for this time period.  Turret number style, maybe some photos of 22nd panzer can give some ideas.  Again, since no photos of the 27th exist, then that is also in your favour, as no one can disprove any choices you make with this subject.

regards,

Jack

I'd be incllined to go pick a command unit from the order of battle, where the previous markings were known.  Then, gin up a "clean patch" of fresh paint with the new logo on it.

My guess is that line units did not much bother with depot evel accurate markings by this stage. 

But, that's a hunch based on how most militaries operate, too--where things are more by-the-book the more they are in contact with Higher Command." 

And, in thinking about it, might could be an interesting diorama in showing a distinctive unit from one of the units, and a unit from a different one at an intersection, with a Feldpoizei unit--in full 27th PzDv markings--is directing traffic to the rally point.

At least that's my 2¢

Thanks, Jean-Michel, I forgot to check that website prior asking the forum!

Wayne, thanks for the data, I didn't recall from that source (that I have since 1990, at least!) any details on this Pz.Div.

Will keep looking for pics... and will share them if can find any!

Cheers,

Diego.

dpdelhoyo wrote:

Hi Mates! I wonder if any armor buff could provide any info (bibliography, trusted web links, etc.) related to the short-lived (and mysterious!) german 27th pz div, raised in the East front around end of 1942. I'm interested in history details, actions, pics/photos and if possible markings/cammo of its vehicles; as I'd like to build a couple of vehicles of this PzDiv. Ta, & cheers from "DownUnder". Diego.

Diego;

A reference I have "Panzer Colors II" has a entry for 27 Panzer Division that states that it was formed in September 1942 in the Ukraine, from units drawn from the 22 Panzer Division. It never exsisted as a full-fledged panzer division and was disbanded along with the 22 Panzer Division following heavy losses in the Stalingrad campain in early 1943. It was not reformed.  Unfortunately this reference has no photos of a 27 Panzer Division vehicle. 

This shows the suposed division insignia.

http://www.feldgrau.com/PzDiv.php?ID=27

Cheers!

Thanks a lot for the data, Scott & Robert!

I already had the info on wikipedia (that's usually one of the first online sources I check!) but the order of battle is new for me.

Any documented source for the divisional info? It might be useful to support any

In "German Panzers Divisions 1939-45" (Chris Bishop) this is the only one not documented with a single picture or vehicle profile.

To the rest of the FSM community - Does anybody has more specific info on this "phantom" division? It seems to be an interesting modelling subject... how does a Pz.III of the 27th Pz.Div looks like???

Thanks & regards,

Diego.

PS: HAPPY NEW YEAR 2007, from Sydney!!!

From "The German Order of Battle, Panzers and Artillery in World War II":

Formed on 1 Oct 1942 in southern Russia by renaming the Michalek Panzer Group (detached from the 22nd PD). The division had:

1/, 2/140th Panzergrenadier Regiment (from 22nd PD), 127th Panzer Battalion (from 3/204th Panzer Regiment), 1/, 2/127th Panzer Artillery Regiment (from staff/677th Artillery Regiment, 1/140th Panzer Artillery Regiment, and 2/51st Artillary Regiment), 127th Schnelle Battalion (from 560th Panzerjager Battalion), 127th Panzer Recon Battalion, 127th Panzer Pioneer Battalion (from 260th Pioneer Battalion), 127th Panzer Signals Battalion, and 127th Divisional Support Troops

On 15 Feb 1943 the division was disbanded and absorbed into the 7th Panzer Division. The 127th Panzer Battalion was absorbed into the 24th Panzer Division as the 3/24th Panzer Regiment.

There is no mention of the unit being involved in any direct military action.

According to an entry I found in Wikipedia:

The 27th Panzer Division began forming in the southern sector of the Eastern Front in late 1942, but was never completed due to the loss of its assets during the Soviet counteroffensives around Stalingrad, and no further attempts were made to reconstitute the division.

Here is the Division symbol: