Russian armor color...what's more accurate???

Plastic_Cross wrote:

disastermaster wrote: Helpful suggestion. If you're storing those beauties in the sunshine for an extended time, the paint will eventually deteriorate and discolor.  Steve  Thanks Steve.  Not to worry though.  That is a photo from my office.  I got laid off shortly after that photo,   and have been unemployed for the last few months.  The models are currently residing safely at home. The good news is that I've recently gotten a couple of interviews and my job prospects look very good for the start of the new year . Thank you for your thoughtfullness. Larry

Good luck!

I think you are pretty safe using a dark green/ forest green/ whatever as long as it tends towards the middle or dark shades. The prevailing opinions about US olive drab have been revised recently, so it seems reasonable that there will be variations in shade, weathering, etc. Look how long it has taken to recognize secondary shades on US armor from WW2, as well as some other camo schemes ( Reichswehr/Heer pre-war was 3 tone, not just panzer gray ).

There are several Russian modeling references that show some multi-shade schemes. There was a bright green shade used after the Revolution, it is clearly apparent on photos of Mk. V tanks, Whippets, T-18s, T-24s. I haven't seen any brighter green paint jobs from the GPW. 

 

If you're at least warm and breathing, there are plenty of job opportunities in Alberta and British Columbia. The minimum age in Alberta is 12, now (still 14 in BC).

Luftwoller,

FANTASTIC website...thanks for letting us know about it!!!

disastermaster wrote:

Helpful suggestion. If you're storing those beauties in the sunshine for an extended time, the paint will eventually deteriorate and discolor.  Steve

Thanks Steve.  Not to worry though.  That is a photo from my office.  I got laid off shortly after that photo,   and have been unemployed for the last few months.  The models are currently residing safely at home.

The good news is that I've recently gotten a couple of interviews and my job prospects look very good for the start of the new year .

Thank you for your thoughtfullness.

Larry

Luftwoller wrote:

Heres my source. Enjoy http://www.wf.weltkrieg.ru/color/alger/ ...Guy

Excellent site.

Thanks,

    Steve 

 

I gotcha.

I was referring to the upkeep/maintenance of the paint.

Of couse, I've seen the picture of the stalingrad t-34 off to war in red primer, but then again I have read they sometimes didn't use primer. Factories without buildings....out the door, driven to the war.....  history can be confusing. Oh well.

Steve 

Heres my source. Enjoy

http://www.wf.weltkrieg.ru/color/alger/

...Guy

I sure wish they were bigger.

I recently came across this Russian site full of colour WW2 stuff. See what you reckon to these greens.

...Guy

 

I just wonder hoew many T3/76's and T-34/85's were truly weathered so extremely as is the fashion oft times?

Casualties among Soviet armoured formations were enormous, if information is to believed. I very much doubt that individual tanks had that amount of time to weather and have the hard worn neglected look they are shown in model form to have.

Looks good though  

The same argument occurs with WW2 aircraft constantly.

If you feel so inclined please check this video out showing a ditched T-34 being raised from the silt of a lake. The T-34 (in German markings) is in extremely good condition and the original green is pretty obvious. 

cheers

Mike 

disastermaster wrote:

Russian armor, well, it seems anything goes except the lime green. I think that color is maybe a misinterpretation of the underling green paint after a faded winter coat of white combined with fading from the sun. To me.....Russian WWII paint = low maintenance.  I did my t34/76 in mm acrylic dark green and post-high lighted it with a mm acrylic dark green lightened with mm acrylic desert tan. I lightened the mix to my discretion. My techniques are described in your other post listed as.....   DONE!!!...almost...photos of my T34/76   You can see the results in the "testing" section of the forum under the title   Yep, another test......   Steve

I think you are spot on about whitewash that is scrubbed off or wears off naturally lightening the original color of the Russian green and may account for some of the "lime" green colors that are now in favor...

One thing I don't agree with is the assumption that all things Russian were done in a helter-skelter fashion...Quite the contrary; the Russians were nothing if they weren't methodical and purposful in almost everything they did...much of this came from the huge buracracy that Communism created...in fact, someone risked the penalty of execution if they deviated from simple "orders"---like paint formulation (If you don't believe me research the story of the Russian aviation engineer who reverse-engineered the B-29's the Soviets interred during WW2...he even included battle damage repairs in his model mock-up because his orders were to build it EXACTLY like the American plane!!!)...

Much of this "haphazard way the Russians approached WW2 myth" is slowly being dispelled as more and more records are coming to light since the fall of the Russian Empire, but many myths still persist...end of rant...

Plastic_Cross wrote:

Helpful suggestion. If you're storing those beauties in the sunshine for an extended time, the paint will eventually deteriorate and discolor. 

Steve 

Thanks everyone for helping out on this one.  I was hoping to deviate from the standard Tamiya Dark Green scheme...OBVIOUSLY that is not a problem...I had no idea the color was that hit-or-miss.

SMJmodeler

Carves wrote:

I really doubt that the Russian even ever thought of using a standart color green for their WWII tank. We have to also remember that at that time, they (the Russian) are at the loosing end, so I belive whatever green they can through to their tank is good enough. I also remember sometime ago someone even told me that some of the Russian tanks rushed to the battle field baremetal color. If someone has photo of this, I like to see it. I want to see if their metal quicklyget rushted. --- Ben

I think you hit the nail on the head Ben. 

Among the other things that stand out to me is the fact that Soviet production lines continued pretty much non-stop in spite of having to physically move the tractor plants East on account of the encroaching Axis forces.  I've read interviews with factory workers describing the improvisations that occured in many aspects of construction.  Factory machines and equipment were loaded onto railcars as quickly as possible.  Tractor plants were up and running in new locations in the open air....before buildings could even be fabricated to house them. 

I also find the wildly varying camo schemes employed by the Russians to be quite interesting.  I've found several Polish and Russian armor books that have great photos of outlandish paint jobs.  While the photos are black and white, the camo - particularly the winter schemes are quite evident.

I've included a few photos of recent Soviet AFVs. SU-122, SU-152 (aka KV-14), ISU-152, KV-2.   I used Tamiya acrylics in every case and typically blend and/or layer at least 5 different shades of green....so it's hard to say what the final color really is.  It's more or less greenish.

 

 

 Russian armor, well, it seems anything goes except the lime green. I think that color is maybe a misinterpretation of the underling green paint after a faded winter coat of white combined with fading from the sun. To me.....Russian WWII paint = low maintenance.

 I did my t34/76 in mm acrylic dark green and post-high lighted it with a mm acrylic dark green lightened with mm acrylic desert tan. I lightened the mix to my discretion. My techniques are described in your other post listed as.....

DONE!!!...almost...photos of my T34/76

You can see the results in the "testing" section of the forum under the title

Yep, another test......

 

Steve 

I find Vallejo Russian Green (017) more accurate than others and I use chalk pastels to brighten the green color after adding the flat coat.

I might be wrong about that darker Tamiya (XF-65) colour. The inside of the hatches should be a good indication - presuming that the paint is original.

 

This would be the "bright green" colour:

This one is in Minsk (repainted, obviously - maybe with a "modern" colour?)

 

And these are in "standard" olive green ... anybody's guess as to authenticity  

There was a build article in FSM in the 90s of an unpainted T-34 - driven straight into battle from the factory. It would be difficult to replicate without good quality colour photographs because, as you know, steel "blues" on heating, and armour is heat-treated steel. Also, freshly-rolled steel is covered in "scale" which is a bluish grey colour (FeO - magnetite) so it doesn't necessarily show rust all that quickly - until the steel beneath is exposed to the atmosphere, and then it will rapidly discolour in a humid atmosphere. How fast it would rust in a frozen, dry, atmosphere I couldn't guess. So, although unpainted, it would be multi-coloured bluish/dark grey with red and orange brown patches and mottles, with a bit of dark grey grease and other POL stains, and welding marks etc etc. It certainly wouldn't look like a 1950's bumper bar.

I really doubt that the Russian even ever thought of using a standart color green for their WWII tank. We have to also remember that at that time, they (the Russian) are at the loosing end, so I belive whatever green they can through to their tank is good enough.

I also remember sometime ago someone even told me that some of the Russian tanks rushed to the battle field baremetal color. If someone has photo of this, I like to see it. I want to see if their metal quicklyget rushted.

---
Ben

I used Ceramcoat dark forest green and forest green for the Dragon 1:72 T-34/85 below. I have recently purchased Vallejo Russian green which appears to be the same dark shade of the ceramcoat DFG base coat I used and I look forward to trying it out on my KV-1S.

On doing some reading though, the green could conceivably be any shade. 

cheers

Mike 

 

this is xtracolour's interpretation

amd with distemper

 

Tamiya  XF-61 dark green is too dark IMHO

 

I am also working on a T34 and would like to get close to the right shade. I used Forrest Green years ago but now? I probably use Model Masters Russian Green. What does Steven Z. say is a "bright " color? I could use some help.

Steve Zaloga mentioned over on Missing-Lynx Allied forum that he was befuddled at the tendency for the bright green WW2 Soviet armor.  I seem to recall that there was some lack of uniformity but the bright color seems to be a modeller's fad, according to Steve Z.

Hard to say what the actual color might be since we're over 60 years removed from the events in question. I used to use either Model Master or Tamiya dark green but have been leaning more toward Model Master acrylic Russian armor green. I have also used White Ensign Russian armor green and can't see much difference between it and Model Master Russian armor green. I've been building models for too many years now and generally use the "Nuclear Weapons" philosophy in painting my models. "Close enough works well for nuclear weapons, horseshoes, and model painting. In fact, if you like certain kinds of models i.e. Russian WW2 it might not hurt to use slightly different shades of color on different models. This should account for different vehicles painted at different times at different factories with paint from a variety of paint manufacturers. After 20 years in the military I learned there is nothing standard about any mililtary force. If you've found one or two colors that suit you, go ahead and use them. Rick Martin

I used to use Dark green (according to Tamiya instruction for SU85), but now I am exploring with Model Master Acrylic WWII Russian Armor Green.  Who really knows what was the true color.  There must've been so many variations due to different manufacturing plants, batches and field condition.