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Amt questions

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  • Member since
    June 2008
Amt questions
Posted by zackesch on Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:12 PM
I bout a 1965 El Camino kit, and theres a few things i am not quite happy with. The molding was very good, very little flash, but my issue is lack of suspention, exhaust molded into the frame, along with the front and rear drivetrain and driveshaft. Is this common with Amt kits? If so, do you mask off and airbrush, hand paint or do you leave it as is for the molded parts that should be diffrent colors then the chassy.
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:34 PM

From what you've described, it sounds like a repop of one of the old AMT kits from back in the day. They've been doing a lot of that lately. Great subjects, but the detail can be kinda simplified. It's up to you as to what to do with it, you can paint it black and forget about it, detail paint the chassis, modify and scratch or kitbash the suspension and exhaust, or swap in a chassis from a newer kit, but I don't know which ones might fit. I hope it won't discourage you from building it, post a pic of it when you're done!

 

Glenn

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by zackesch on Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:45 PM
I am still going to finish it. I still think its a bad move for AMT because this may be one of the last auto kits i will do from them, and do mostly revell and tamiya in the future.
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:23 PM
I have to admit that I'm not a huge fan of the AMT kits, but they make some kits that no-one else does, and some of them are phenomenal. It's best to do some research before buying.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by zackesch on Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:36 PM
when this one is done, i am debating to give the revell '66 el camino a shot to see the diffrence betweent the two comanys with the same car.
  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:47 PM

No not all AMT kits are like that, many of their later kits have very good detail. The difficult part is knowing which is which, it is a good idea to read reviews or ask about specific kits if the older style kits are unacceptable to you.

Kits like you describe are just how kits were made into the 70's, kind of like the older Tamiya kits that are designed to open and have molded in detail showing where the batteries go. Models were more of a toy back then.

I know some complain about these older kits but I'm happy they are bringing them back, where else could I get a '72 Chevy truck or an International Scout. It would be nice if it was more obvious on the box which style kits they were though.

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by zackesch on Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:56 PM
This older style kit should be a good learning expierence for me. I will learn a good deal about masking, basic bulding techniques and other things of the sort.  So it will not be a bad build. I didnt relise that this kit may of been a remake of an older kit.  I do like the el camino alot, so building the revell kit will still be alot of fun, and more detailed. Maby i was too quick to judge amt kits.
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Seattle, WA
Posted by Surface_Line on Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:59 PM

You will be seeing the difference between the AMT kit that was state-of-the-art in 1965 and the Revell kit that was state-of-the-art in sometime in the 1990's (check the copyright date on the Revell box) 

The AMT kit was engineered to the standard procedures of forty+ years ago.  A lot has changed since then, especially on the chassis piece and the interior.  The AMT kit has updated the chassis-to-body connection and interior-to-body connection, and removed a nasty old "hood clip" that was standard for twenty years, and the metal axle in front doesn't go through the engine anymore, but the body is the same on all these old repops, and the engine and interior looks the same as before.

 A comparison of Revell kit to AMT kit is really apples and oranges.  Enjoy them if you want to, but please remember that the AMT kit is  from another era.  Have fun with it.

  • Member since
    June 2008
Posted by zackesch on Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:04 AM

After your quick comments, i am not upset with the lack of detail. I didnt realize the diffrence in detail when starting, and on top of that i wasnt aware of that this could of been a re-make for amt. I will build it with a classic kit in mind and build it such as. Thanks all for your quick reply.

 

EDIT:: This is a re-make of a classic kit, the axle goes through the engine.::

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:42 AM
Does that make it front wheel drive? Whistling [:-^]

So long folks!

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Sunday, December 21, 2008 9:41 AM

 Bgrigg wrote:
I have to admit that I'm not a huge fan of the AMT kits, but they make some kits that no-one else does, and some of them are phenomenal. It's best to do some research before buying.

I usually shy away from AMT except when I want a Star Wars model. They usually have lots of flash, oily parts, and fit issues. As Bgrigg said, do some research.

  • Member since
    October 2003
Posted by mitchum on Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:11 PM

Here's a little insight from someone who's been in it almost since the beginning having built my first kit around 1958 about why those AMT kits, some of which are from tools that are over 40 years old, are the way they are and why your comparison is veru unfair.

 

The newer kits are tooled for an entirely different purpose than the older kits were. In fact, the older kits didn't start out as kits at all. When the new cars came out, the auto manufacturers would contract with companies like AMT to  produce what were refered to as "promos", short for promotional models, that were used in showcases in the dealership to let the prospective buyer see what the cars looked like in the different colors offered without having to stock all of them in the full sized cars at all times.

 

Sometimes the dealer would give out these cars to his better customers, especially those with young boys, as a sales premium or appreciation or even to help "seal the deal". The dealers needed models that were ready to hand out and not kits so they manufacturers, after getting all the info on the new models, would make a simplified replica with as few plarts as possible to produce an accurate miniature of the full size car for the car maker's dealer showrooms.

 

That's why the interior consisted only of a "tub" with all the seats, a dash and a steering wheel so that the "kits" could be built by AMT and others in a very short time so as to get the new little cars in the showrooms when the real one hit. The full size car makers paid for the tooling and the buildups and the model companies made a modest profit. Along about '58 it got really interesting as far as us modelers were concerned.

 

AMT started doing the promos, and with the orders from the carmakers there were hardtops, convertibles, station wagons, four doors and pickup trucks, and after the orders for the dealers were fullfilled they added some tooling for a few custom parts, printed some decals, put it all, unassembled, in a box and our auto modeling hobby was born from these humble beginnings.

 

At first there were no engines because a promo's hood didn't open but later the kit makers added engines with stands and later opened the hoods in the retooling process after the promos were finished. That's why there were so many different body styles kitted back then and why they weren't as detailed as the kits made thirty or forty years later.

 

Before you go condemning a kit for its lack of detail stop and think how long ago and for what purpose the tooling was cut. Would you rather have a simplified kit of no kit at all of that subject because there isn't enough of a customer base to support a new modern tool?

 

And another thing about those simple little kits that today's "sophisticated" modeler convienitely overlooks is that those kits got built! And not only by the "master modelers" that gripe about the vintage kits today, but also by the kid brothers of those "kit assemblers" because they wanted to be like big brother and that grew another generation of buyers that made the next batch of kits possible.

 

And the most important thing about those simple kits was that when you got it built, it looked like the vehicle you were modeling because the shape of the body and the overall "look" was built into it to please the people that built the real car. Beginners built them out of the box on their way to becoming modelers and modelers used them as the basis for building their "visions", from customs to racers to whatever their imagination could concieve. And that. my friends, is what modeling is supposed to be about.

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:28 PM

And that's a very good point! Mine is who else does a 69 Barracuda, or a 53 Studebaker Starliner? While some of these kits are "iffy" compared to modern standards, they are what you make of them. Sure they require some work, but when they are the only game in town for some cars, the work becomes necessary.

Myself, I don't really care if the hood opens or not. Once the kit is built and up on the shelf, I rarely leave the hood open, or pick up the car to see what the chassis detailing is like.

And as I said earlier, some of the kits are excellent, full of details and extra bits.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    September 2004
Posted by davecww1 on Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:01 PM

Like they have said, the AMT and MPC kits were originally based on promos, and later on they would do the annual series, replicating the car as it appeared that year.  The annual kits were revised each year to show any changes in the body and usually had the year molded into the licence plate.  For a Chevy fan like myself these annual kits are sometimes the only way to find a certain year bodystyle, and the original kits are very expensive.  That's why I don't mind the reissues of the kits like the 65 El Camino, 67-68 Camaro, 59 El Camino, and 72 Chevelle.  The bodies are quite nice and I have kitbashed several of these kits with the newer Revell/Monogram suspension and engine parts to make highly detailed scale models.  Also some of the later AMT kits like the 62 and 67 Impala, 57 Corvette, 70 Camaro and 70 Monte Carlo are nicely detailed new tools (about 10 years old) and compare well with the recent Revell kits. 

Dave

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:49 PM
I don't build many cars, but I do build trucks. If you want to see what an AMT kit can be try one of their big rigs (except the Peterbilt 359 which can require some patience), the 1950 Chevy pickup, 1960 Chevy Pickup or 1953 Ford Pickup all of which have nic detail and pretty decent fit. AMT is also pretty good about loading up their kits with extra stuff, multiple building options, floor jacks, cutting torches, tool boxes etc.
  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:05 PM

loving or not certain companies products, many times they are the only game intown for certain cars.  that said   if you want models of certain cars  you've got to suck it up and build it

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Sunday, December 21, 2008 8:12 PM
 mitchum wrote:

Here's a little insight from someone who's been in it almost since the beginning having built my first kit around 1958 about why those AMT kits, some of which are from tools that are over 40 years old, are the way they are and why your comparison is veru unfair.

 

The newer kits are tooled for an entirely different purpose than the older kits were. In fact, the older kits didn't start out as kits at all. When the new cars came out, the auto manufacturers would contract with companies like AMT to  produce what were refered to as "promos", short for promotional models, that were used in showcases in the dealership to let the prospective buyer see what the cars looked like in the different colors offered without having to stock all of them in the full sized cars at all times.

 

Sometimes the dealer would give out these cars to his better customers, especially those with young boys, as a sales premium or appreciation or even to help "seal the deal". The dealers needed models that were ready to hand out and not kits so they manufacturers, after getting all the info on the new models, would make a simplified replica with as few plarts as possible to produce an accurate miniature of the full size car for the car maker's dealer showrooms.

 

That's why the interior consisted only of a "tub" with all the seats, a dash and a steering wheel so that the "kits" could be built by AMT and others in a very short time so as to get the new little cars in the showrooms when the real one hit. The full size car makers paid for the tooling and the buildups and the model companies made a modest profit. Along about '58 it got really interesting as far as us modelers were concerned.

 

AMT started doing the promos, and with the orders from the carmakers there were hardtops, convertibles, station wagons, four doors and pickup trucks, and after the orders for the dealers were fullfilled they added some tooling for a few custom parts, printed some decals, put it all, unassembled, in a box and our auto modeling hobby was born from these humble beginnings.

 

At first there were no engines because a promo's hood didn't open but later the kit makers added engines with stands and later opened the hoods in the retooling process after the promos were finished. That's why there were so many different body styles kitted back then and why they weren't as detailed as the kits made thirty or forty years later.

 

Before you go condemning a kit for its lack of detail stop and think how long ago and for what purpose the tooling was cut. Would you rather have a simplified kit of no kit at all of that subject because there isn't enough of a customer base to support a new modern tool?

 

And another thing about those simple little kits that today's "sophisticated" modeler convienitely overlooks is that those kits got built! And not only by the "master modelers" that gripe about the vintage kits today, but also by the kid brothers of those "kit assemblers" because they wanted to be like big brother and that grew another generation of buyers that made the next batch of kits possible.

 

And the most important thing about those simple kits was that when you got it built, it looked like the vehicle you were modeling because the shape of the body and the overall "look" was built into it to please the people that built the real car. Beginners built them out of the box on their way to becoming modelers and modelers used them as the basis for building their "visions", from customs to racers to whatever their imagination could concieve. And that. my friends, is what modeling is supposed to be about.

 

 

Actually, it's the newer ones that I don't like. I really enjoy the older kits. One of the kits was a Honda Civic "tuner" and I know that was a recent tooling. The fit was terrible, and the decals came right off even with the gloss paint I was using. The detail had much to be desiered as well. I got so frusterated with the darn thing that I sripped it's  details off and threw them in the spares box.

  • Member since
    October 2003
Posted by mitchum on Monday, December 22, 2008 8:57 PM

Since I don't build "tuners" I can't comment on the quality of those kits. I don't remember ERTL-AMT-or whatever they went by after I stopped working with them but those kits may have been "rebox" kits from another manufacturer. That has been done by many manufacturers in the past and I'm sure it still goes on.

 

The more recent kits that I do have experience with like the '62 Chevy Bel Air......

 

 

the '62 Pontiac Catalina....................

 

 

and the '60 Ford Starliner........................

 

 

 

build up very nicely and look like the real cars they are supposed to represent. They have all the bells and whistles like seperate chassis, multi piece suspension and extra parts to add variety to your builds.

 

But even the promo-based kits of the early sixties gave a good basis to build on with accurate proportions and subjects that just aren't availible from any other source.

 

 

I guess I just like those kits and that company.

 

 

 

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