Trumpeter 1:12 Ford GT40 Mk. II testshot review.

rangerj wrote:

You make an interesting point and that is that the Italian car manufacturing is heavily invested in by the Italian government. This is true of all the European auto manufacturers and the Asian manufacturers as well. Only the U.S. auto manufacturers are without government subsidies. Imagine what they could produce if the government would invest in them and subsidise their R&D, as well as the price of their cars. The Japanese admit to losing $5000 for ever Prius sold in the U.S. The word "Dumping" comes to mind.

I'm kinda pressed fpr time, but later tonight or tomorrow I'm going to post some figures that I took out of the Wall Street Journal. Then I want you to think about them when you look at your paycheck stub. (hint: buy some Malox)

gary

You make an interesting point and that is that the Italian car manufacturing is heavily invested in by the Italian government. This is true of all the European auto manufacturers and the Asian manufacturers as well. Only the U.S. auto manufacturers are without government subsidies. Imagine what they could produce if the government would invest in them and subsidise their R&D, as well as the price of their cars. The Japanese admit to losing $5000 for ever Prius sold in the U.S. The word "Dumping" comes to mind.   

I think I'm gonna puke!

rangerj wrote:

If I remember correctly the driver's side teardrop shaped "bubble" was called the "Gurney bubble" named after the driver Dan Gurney. I do not recall if the bubble was used on any of the cars with other drivers. I have a friend who was badly burned in a GT40. The fuel tanks are along side the doors and in order to get out you have to go through the flames. The new GT is a very different automobile. It has to meet the current federal standards, which the original cars would never meet. A bit of trivia regarding the new Ford GT is that the #1 production car, a white GT wiith blue stripes, has inscribed on the sill plate "Made for Bill Ford". This car was on display at the Ford 100th anniversary gathering in Dearborn MI in 2003, along with the red GT with white stripes, and the dark blue GT with white stripes. If I recall correctly these were the first three production Ford GTs.  One other Ford GT40 bit of trivia. Henry Ford offered to buy Ferrari and Enzo turned him down. This is purported to be the reason Ford got into racing, that is to show Enzo he could be beaten. After the early poor showing Ford called Carrol Shelby and asked him what it wiould take to put together a racing team, and cars that would win in LeMans. Shelby said $1 million dollars, and Henry Ford wrote him a check on the spot. The rest is history.

the only reason Ford ever beat the old man was simply by horsepower. They ran a seven litre NASCAR engine against a group of cars limited (by gentelman's agreement) to three liters. I guess they should have won by at least five hundred miles. With that being said; Ford almost singlehandedly killed sports car racing. Created an engine race like never seen before. Ferrari was working on a 5.5 liter V12 that was making close to seven hundred horse power in race trim. Aston Martin jumped in there with their own V12, and BRM or one of the others were working with an H16 (scaled up from the one they brought to Indy). Money issues became so astronomical that they said they'd never run a sports car again. Now sports car racing is pretty much which German car wants to win the most, and has literally became about as boring as watching mold grow.

    I doubt that Ford could have bought Ferrari. In those days Ford had money, but nothing else. The family had lost control of the company, but old man Ford was still CEO. He wrecked the company single handedly (read Iaocca's book). Was spending well over a million dollars a race to be competetive in NASCAR alone. Somewhere in that time period Ferrari and Fiat (maybe another too) all merged. He'd have to bought the whole shebang. But I do suspect the story you are refering to is with the guy who started Lamberginni. He built tractors just like Detomaso. Wanted a Ferrari built to his own personal specs, and was turned down. So he built his own car by starting his own company. This was bought a few years later by Chrysler, and they later sold it off as a white elephant. The closest Ferrari has even been to being owned by a North American company was when G.M. and Ferrari/Fiat entered serious buy out talks a few years back (maybe five years ago). Inside story has it that the Italian Government ended the discussions as they had a very large stake in the company. At the time we were all thinking what a class a discount would be on a new Ferrari! (as if I could ever afford one, but can always dream)

    As neat as the Ford GT is, the car to wait for is the on again and off again Caddy. It's powered by a mid mount V12 making 740hp. Has gull winged doors that open forward, and looks like it's going 200+mph standing still. It was on again about four months ago, so who knows. Chrysler came within a hairs width of building the ME748, and Mercedes kept that copyrights to it when they sold the company. This would have been the fastest production car ever built, and when they split it was over 70% tooled up.

gary

If I remember correctly the driver's side teardrop shaped "bubble" was called the "Gurney bubble" named after the driver Dan Gurney. I do not recall if the bubble was used on any of the cars with other drivers. I have a friend who was badly burned in a GT40. The fuel tanks are along side the doors and in order to get out you have to go through the flames. The new GT is a very different automobile. It has to meet the current federal standards, which the original cars would never meet. A bit of trivia regarding the new Ford GT is that the #1 production car, a white GT wiith blue stripes, has inscribed on the sill plate "Made for Bill Ford". This car was on display at the Ford 100th anniversary gathering in Dearborn MI in 2003, along with the red GT with white stripes, and the dark blue GT with white stripes. If I recall correctly these were the first three production Ford GTs.  One other Ford GT40 bit of trivia. Henry Ford offered to buy Ferrari and Enzo turned him down. This is purported to be the reason Ford got into racing, that is to show Enzo he could be beaten. After the early poor showing Ford called Carrol Shelby and asked him what it wiould take to put together a racing team, and cars that would win in LeMans. Shelby said $1 million dollars, and Henry Ford wrote him a check on the spot. The rest is history.

I've been waiting for a 1/12 kit of one of these historic race cars for years!
Even though I prefer the JWA version, this one will be on my list. From the looks of things, I would have preferred a more common way of engine assembly, meaning separate heads - intake manifold and such.

Surface_Line wrote:

I didn't realize I was being quizzed.  squeakie wrote:    If they had not banned all those big engines there would have been a couple Jim Hall entries at LeMans There were Jim Hall entries at LeMans.  They were the Chapparal 2D in 1966 and the Chapparal 2F in 1967. I was refering to a clompletely different chassis that came out of Warren Tech in Michigan. Duntov had his hands all over it. The actual number code for it was CRV? I remember the one, two, and three models, but this one had a different set of numbers. Hot Rod magazine had a couple spy photos shot thru a chain link fence of it. They also had photos of the four cam "J CAR".    An interesting story about the Jim Hall cars was that after every race they literally threw the motor away! (Can Am and ZL1 motors had a nasty habit of making fist sized vents thru the side of the blocks) The only thing used over was the fuel injection units and headers. The heads were supposed to have been regular L88 castings (there was no L88 engine at the time), but were actually much different. Those engines started out using Hilborn injectors, and later evolved into using some very special items from Kinsler, and actually were very similar to what the Outlaw Sprint Cars use today.    There was also one oddball roadster built built by somebody that had a late model Chrysler Hemi in it (allow block & heads). It had about a hundred more horsepower than anything out there, but they never could make the thing stop! Think maybe Lance Reventlow was involved in that one as the chassis looked tobe pure Scarab. Man that's been almost forty years ago! And lets not forget all the Lister cars! gary

I didn't realize I was being quizzed.

squeakie wrote:

If they had not banned all those big engines there would have been a couple Jim Hall entries at LeMans

There were Jim Hall entries at LeMans.  They were the Chapparal 2D in 1966 and the Chapparal 2F in 1967.

 

 

Surface_Line wrote:

Gary, The Ford GT family is kind of a passion for me, just like Detroit engines are for you.   You've asked for a long story.  There are a lot of books out there - I will try to just hit the high points. The Ford GT family is an offshoot of the Lola GT coupe designed by Eric Broadley in 1963 in England with the 260 Ford v-8. (Every engine I mention will be pushrod unless I say otherwise).  Ford took that as a starting point when they decided to get into racing and build the original Ford GT (289 engine)as we know it.  That car first raced in 1964. They also  built two as open topped roadsters.  Ferrari won at Le Mans, and they won the Manufacturers' Championship. The original design car was modeled by IMC and the car as first raced was kitted by Aurora, later repopped by Monogram and Revell.  IMC provided the 255 DOHC engine in the kit, but that was never raced. Mini Exotics makes a relatively reasonablly priced resin body for the roadster. In 1965, They won a single race, at Daytona.  The 289 Ford GTs continued to race, but Ford also beefed up a pair of cars and stuck 427 engines in them.  They raced both engines at Le Mans and ran fast and broke.    Ferrari won again. A Japanese company kitted the Daytona winner (was it Imai?) the kit was really poor. Ford then got very, very serious about development, and for 1966 delivered the Ford GT Mk II with the 427 engine, now fully tested and ready to go.  Holman Moody and Shelby American each prepared cars for Daytona and Sebring, and the Fords won.  At Le Mans, there were eight cars, with Alan Mann having two more Mk II cars.  This was the famous 1-2-3 finish.   (second place was a light blue car prepared by Holman Moody, but not sponsored by Gulf)  Also, the 289-engined cars were now in the hands of private owners and raced all over in 1966, and called either plain Ford GT, or starting to be called GT40, because they were 40" tall.  Nobody called them Ford GT Mk I.  This was the year of  the Chapparal 2D coupe.  Ferrari did not win. IMC kitted the MKII, as well as Fujimi, which was later reboxed by Revell and Testors.  But that Mk II kit was only accurate for Le Mans, no matter what boxart shows. The red #1 Sebring winner was a roadster called the X-1, a really serious difference from a standar Mk II. For 1967, Ford needed to find a way to "take it up a notch".  The J-Car was a new technology chassis.  During testing in the off season, the great driver Ken Miles, who had won at Sebring and Daytona in the Mk II in 1966, was killed.  The cars were further modified, and the result was now known as the Mk IV.  (The MK III was a street version of the 289 Ford GT)  The Mk IV raced at Sebring (2 cars) and it won, and at Le Mans (four cars) and it won.  Mk IIB cars, which were slighly updated MK IIs, ran throughout 1967, and didn't do very well against the up-to-date Ferraris.  This was the year of the Chapparal 2F coupe. MPC kitted the Sebrig Mk IV  (That kit is gone now - they cannibalized it to make the Hardcastle & McCormick Coyote Special. IMC (later repopped by Union) kitted the Le Mans Mk IV. Fujimi has kitted some of the private GT40s. At the end of the 1967 season, the big 7 liter (427 cubic inch) engines were banned.  5 liter (302) was the max size.  Ford factory involvement pulled out. For 1968, Gulf sponsored the John Wyer  racing team, which further developed the GT40 with the 302 engine, as well as the Mirage, which was supposed to be a lightweight version of the GT40, but never very successful. In 1968 and 1969, Golf entered three-car teams of GT40s at Le Mans, and won with the very same car (chassis #1075) both years. Fujimi kitted this chassis#1075. And the big honkin' Trumpeter kit is the 1966 LeMans winning #2 Ford GT Mk II, chassis #1046. Sorry to be so long-winded about my favorite subject in the whole world.  You asked.  Rick

A Ford GT and a GT-40 share a very similar body style if not really the same (I think there actually are a few small differences), but internally they're different animals. Ford never ran the production block that came in the Cobras like most people think. They used the 255" Indy block (the first push rod block like Jimmy Clark used, not the second one). It was not quite a bolt in swap as I said, and there were revisions made just to use the headers from the Indy car (as well as the dry sump oiling system). I also think the transaxle was different from the GT-40.

    You are about the only person that's ever got the Lola part right, and I congratualte you! Ford had little todo with the design of the Ford GT. But you made an error; although ever so slightly and error. The Lola GT was also sold with the Corvette engine at one time just like the DeTomaso Mangusta (later to become the Pantera). I have only seen one Lola GT ever, and it was Ford powered (289" engine with four Webbers). I always loved the shape of the Ford GT (we came extremely close to having one in my family a couple years ago), but actually like the Lola better.

   If they had not banned all those big engines there would have been a couple Jim Hall entries at LeMans and a new motor out of Italy (basicly a similar engine to what's in the Enzo). Plus a couple new ones out of the UK (one twelve cylinder and one sixteen cylinder). Ford at one time was very seriously considering a four cam Indy motor in the "J car" body. But never got very far in development. Like I said it's a huge project to put one in a GT-40 type chassis, but in a "J car" there's a lot of room back there. You also must remember that back then a NASCAR engine from Ford was probably making about 540hp (some folks say 575). Chevy was starting to cast the 430" Can-Am blocks which later became the dominate engine in road racing here in the states (why I've never figured as it wasn't all the great of an engine).

gary

Gary,

The Ford GT family is kind of a passion for me, just like Detroit engines are for you.   You've asked for a long story.  There are a lot of books out there - I will try to just hit the high points.

The Ford GT family is an offshoot of the Lola GT coupe designed by Eric Broadley in 1963 in England with the 260 Ford v-8. (Every engine I mention will be pushrod unless I say otherwise).  Ford took that as a starting point when they decided to get into racing and build the original Ford GT (289 engine)as we know it.  That car first raced in 1964. They also  built two as open topped roadsters.  Ferrari won at Le Mans, and they won the Manufacturers' Championship.

The original design car was modeled by IMC and the car as first raced was kitted by Aurora, later repopped by Monogram and Revell.  IMC provided the 255 DOHC engine in the kit, but that was never raced. Mini Exotics makes a relatively reasonablly priced resin body for the roadster.

In 1965, They won a single race, at Daytona.  The 289 Ford GTs continued to race, but Ford also beefed up a pair of cars and stuck 427 engines in them.  They raced both engines at Le Mans and ran fast and broke.    Ferrari won again.

A Japanese company kitted the Daytona winner (was it Imai?) the kit was really poor.

Ford then got very, very serious about development, and for 1966 delivered the Ford GT Mk II with the 427 engine, now fully tested and ready to go.  Holman Moody and Shelby American each prepared cars for Daytona and Sebring, and the Fords won.  At Le Mans, there were eight cars, with Alan Mann having two more Mk II cars.  This was the famous 1-2-3 finish.   (second place was a light blue car prepared by Holman Moody, but not sponsored by Gulf)  Also, the 289-engined cars were now in the hands of private owners and raced all over in 1966, and called either plain Ford GT, or starting to be called GT40, because they were 40" tall.  Nobody called them Ford GT Mk I.  This was the year of  the Chapparal 2D coupe.  Ferrari did not win.

IMC kitted the MKII, as well as Fujimi, which was later reboxed by Revell and Testors.  But that Mk II kit was only accurate for Le Mans, no matter what boxart shows.
The red #1 Sebring winner was a roadster called the X-1, a really serious difference from a standar Mk II.

For 1967, Ford needed to find a way to "take it up a notch".  The J-Car was a new technology chassis.  During testing in the off season, the great driver Ken Miles, who had won at Sebring and Daytona in the Mk II in 1966, was killed.  The cars were further modified, and the result was now known as the Mk IV.  (The MK III was a street version of the 289 Ford GT)  The Mk IV raced at Sebring (2 cars) and it won, and at Le Mans (four cars) and it won.  Mk IIB cars, which were slighly updated MK IIs, ran throughout 1967, and didn't do very well against the up-to-date Ferraris.  This was the year of the Chapparal 2F coupe.
MPC kitted the Sebrig Mk IV  (That kit is gone now - they cannibalized it to make the Hardcastle & McCormick Coyote Special.
IMC (later repopped by Union) kitted the Le Mans Mk IV.
Fujimi has kitted some of the private GT40s.

At the end of the 1967 season, the big 7 liter (427 cubic inch) engines were banned.  5 liter (302) was the max size.  Ford factory involvement pulled out.

For 1968, Gulf sponsored the John Wyer  racing team, which further developed the GT40 with the 302 engine, as well as the Mirage, which was supposed to be a lightweight version of the GT40, but never very successful. In 1968 and 1969, Golf entered three-car teams of GT40s at Le Mans, and won with the very same car (chassis #1075) both years.
Fujimi kitted this chassis#1075.

And the big honkin' Trumpeter kit is the 1966 LeMans winning #2 Ford GT Mk II, chassis #1046.

Sorry to be so long-winded about my favorite subject in the whole world.  You asked. 
Rick

cbrain wrote:

squeakie wrote:  cbrain wrote: Another glimpse and a testshot review of the upcoming release of Trumpeter's big new car. http://www.ipmsphilippines.com/testshots10.php I didn't think that Ford ran a GT40 at Le Mans. I thought it was a regualr Ford GT (they are slightly different). They also ran the "J Car" and another one. gary Yep, I believe there were three. The second one was in gulf blue/orange colors while the 3rd finisher was in gold. Truly a winning year for Ford. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/05/ford-celebrates-1966-le-mans-victory-at-2006-le-mans-classic/

many years ago I saw a GT-40 that a guy put a twin cam Indy Ford engine in, and it was a nightmare to do. The GT-40's were built for a standard block Ford engine, and the Indy engines used a dry sump block that was wider at the bottom as well as the top. He had to do a lot of cutting and welding to make it fit., and then virtually have to start all over again to find a place to mount the external oil tank. The 255" Indy overhead valve engine would have been a similar mess to do in a GT-40 but also narrower at the top like the GT-40. After Foyt won Lemans there was quite a controversy about that car other than it was a full seven litre engine (he used a standard NASCAR Ford engine, while the rest of the competetors ran three litre engines) in that there were less than five built, and thus was not really a production car. This was why the "old man" quit racing sports cars as he felt there was a double standard between the rest of them and Ford of France. None of the big boys ran Le mans again except for the Germans. Another interesting thing about that particular time period is "what was the fastest car ever clocked at Le Mans (Mulsane Strait). It was an Ugly green Maseratti that went well over 204mph when every body else was struggeling to break 190mph. That car only raced one race, but held that record well into the 1980's. Brakes are what doomed that car.

    Anybody here know who designed the Ford GT? Who built the chassis? And where?

gary

squeakie wrote:

cbrain wrote: Another glimpse and a testshot review of the upcoming release of Trumpeter's big new car. http://www.ipmsphilippines.com/testshots10.php I didn't think that Ford ran a GT40 at Le Mans. I thought it was a regualr Ford GT (they are slightly different). They also ran the "J Car" and another one. gary

Yep, I believe there were three. The second one was in gulf blue/orange colors while the 3rd finisher was in gold. Truly a winning year for Ford.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/05/ford-celebrates-1966-le-mans-victory-at-2006-le-mans-classic/

cbrain wrote:

Another glimpse and a testshot review of the upcoming release of Trumpeter's big new car. http://www.ipmsphilippines.com/testshots10.php

I didn't think that Ford ran a GT40 at Le Mans. I thought it was a regualr Ford GT (they are slightly different). They also ran the "J Car" and another one.

gary

I'm interested in that kit, and I've tried to find out a price without any luck. Trumpeter stuff can be real pricey. Well, we'll see. Merry Christmas to everyone.

                                                                                       Ken

Now that looks really cool and its something I would buy but as for building right away i think I would hold off to see what  kind of after market goodies would be following it