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primer and future

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  • Member since
    March 2003
Posted by rangerj on Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:41 PM
A couple of additional thoughts:

Primer provides a surface for the finish paint to adhere to, or "bite". It also gives you a base color. You can get slight differences in the finish color with different colors of primer. This is truer for colors that are more translucent, such as pearls and light colors. Primer will also help to cover some minor imperfections, such as light scratches.

Orange peal is caused by a combination of things. As mentioned above the paint should "flow" out on the surface, or "lay down". The wetter the paint is the better it "lays down". However, if it is too wet it will run and that is much more difficult to fix. The other cause of the orange peel is the air. When you spray paint it is atomized into thousands of tiny droplets that should join together, "flow", or "lay down". The same air that atomized the paint into little droplets also prevents them from flowing together.

Take a little paint and apply it to a surface. Then blow into it with a straw. You will see the paint form a circular depression due to the air forcing the paint off to the sides. That depression, multiplied by thousands, is "orange peel".

Sometime you can have perfect atmospheric conditions, i.e. temperature, humidity, and get the amount of thinner or reducer exactly right, and the paint will flow together before it gets too dry. With enamel you can let your last coat get tacky and then spray on a very light "mist" coat of thinner to keep the top coat wet enough to lay down without orange peel. This is tricky, so if you try it be forwarned that the results can be fantastic, or a disaster!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:25 PM
As far as orange peel goes, it is not from dust or oil, this is called "fish eyes" in the auto body world. “Fish eyes” is when the paint is actually "repelled" from the surface you are applying it to because of oil or other contaminants.
The problem of orange peel is when then paint does not “flow” out enough to achieve a smooth surface, the paint actually dries before completely smoothing out. The manufacturers and auto body guys would actually prefer this rather than have the opposite which is “runs” in the paint. Runs are usually a lot more difficult to remove or repair than orange peel is. There are different ways to approach it depending on what kind of paint system you are using:
For a two stage paint (base coat with a clear coat) you want to spray very thin light coats of the base color until there is enough coverage. Then spray on nice “wet” coats of clear topcoat to get enough coats of clear to wet sand down to a smooth, glass-like finish. You will rarely spray a finish that looks like glass right from the airbrush or can, you have to do a little extra work for it, but it’s worth it when you see the light reflecting off the surface! (one tip for model car bodies is to paint the trim or emblems with a chrome or silver paint after spraying the base coat, then clear over everything to seal it all in before wet sanding the finish)
If you are using single stage paint, these have the base and clear basically mixed together so you just want to spray nice even coats of paint on the car until you have enough paint to go back and wet sand to a smooth finish.
If you are spraying any type of metallic or pearl type paint you want to use the two stage method because wet sanding this type of paint will make it look bad because you are sanding off the randomness of the metallic or pearl chips.
I know it was a little long but hope it sheds a little light on the subject!
(P.S. I know because I was an auto body repair and paint person for a little over 7 years)
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: returning to the FSM forum after a hiatus
Posted by jinithith2 on Monday, February 7, 2005 7:24 PM
ok, thanks guys and thanks for actually lokking at the post and thanks even more for the detailed description!
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Sandusky Ohio, USA
Posted by Swanny on Monday, February 7, 2005 2:18 PM
Clean the current coat of Future off with Windex or other ammonia based window cleaner then redip but this time place on a paper towel to wick off the excess and cover with a bowl to prevent dust from settling on the surface. Check my website (link in signiture) for "The Complete Future" under the "Tools and Tips" tab.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Washington State
Posted by leemitcheltree on Monday, February 7, 2005 6:24 AM
Mate,
Firstly, either use Windex to remove the Future, or soak the screen in a small dish of Future overnight - that'll dissolve the Future.
When you re-dip the screen (in a fresh batch of Future), make sure you place the screen on a paper towel to soak up the excess, then put a bowl or Tupperware container over the screen to exclude dust until it dries. This should solve your problem with dust on your windscreen.
Now - the orange peel problem is a little trickier - firstly, do you own an airbrush or are you using rattle cans?
If you have an airbrush, try thinning the paint a bit more and slightly increase the psi through the gun.
If you're using a rattle can, place the can in a pan of warm water (NOT hot) for a few minutes before you use it. Gaseous sunstances (in this case, the propellant in the can) expand when they're heated - effectively increasing the pressure in the can (that's why you put the can in WARM water - NOT hot) - it also makes the paint droplets a little smaller.
Don't try to put too much paint on at once. Sometimes less is more.
I ALWAYS use primer - it gives you an opportunity to inspect the car body for defects and fix them prior to the color coats.
Good luck.

Cheers, LeeTree
Remember, Safety Fast!!!

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: 40 klicks east of the Gateway
Posted by yardbird78 on Sunday, February 6, 2005 9:40 PM
You can remove the Future/Dust combination by using any window cleaner with amonia in it. Straight amonia is quicker, but I don't know if that would attack the plastic or not.
"Orange Peel" is generally caused by very small specks of dust or other contaminants on the model when you paint it. Gloss paints are especially susceptible to this. Wash the model in slightly warm water and a little dish soap, let it dry and then apply the primer. If you use a flat primer and then put gloss over it, the shine will not be very shiny.
Darwin, O.F. Alien [alien]

 ,,

The B-52 and me, we have grown old, gray and overweight together.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, February 6, 2005 8:05 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jinithith2
and if you apply primer before the paint, does that prevent the "orage peel" like surface quality?


It can help as you can lay down thinner layers of paint, but the best way to improve your finish it to add a retarder/extender into your thinner/paint mix.
This will help prevent the paint from drying up prior to hitting your model, moving the A/B in closer also helps.

There will be more people along shortly to give yo extra advise.
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: returning to the FSM forum after a hiatus
primer and future
Posted by jinithith2 on Sunday, February 6, 2005 7:09 PM
Hello-again
I dipped my windshield into the future, came back after 10 hours or so, and found it all clinging dust.
how do I solve this when i have already made the dusty mess?
and if you apply primer before the paint, does that prevent the "orage peel" like surface quality?
Thanks
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