69 what if Motown missile WIP

zgator wrote:

that car is not really a "what if". Ted almost built one! (actually a hemi Dart)

gary

zgator wrote:

Do you have any pictures of the Hemi Dart?

I don't think Ted actually raced one, but at onetime they almost built one to compete with the boys accross town. Ted was the main goto guy to get the parts to build one. He also had aluminium front ends in factory crates to fit 1963 & 1964 cars, but don't remember seeing any acid dipped 1965 front ends (sure they were there). We came home with two new stainless steel K members, and still have one in storage for a serious hemi project in the future.

    Most all 1968 hemi Cudas and Darts are really just clones. The cars are worth way too much money to race. I would guess that there are as many as 250 hemi cars out there plus the real ones. There are a lot of really interesting stories concerning hemi Darts and Cudas. My favorite one is the 10.30 max ET. that was sort of a under the table rule (remember NHARA boobs hate hemis cars). A guy out in Kansas makes a 9.77 run in one, and they actually cut him off from the parts chain. Three months later Sox & Marten did a 9.30 during a test & tune meet on a rented track in Indy (motor & suspension was pretty much stock). At the same meet Butch Leal runs a 9.77 in a 1965 super stock B Plymouth. This was a full half second faster than the super stock A national record!! A week later Leal drug the rear bumper for a hundred feet after the NHRA bunch wouldn't let him use a wheelie bar. Next pass he made there was a wheelie bar setup on the car!

   I wonder if anybody makes a set of decales for the 1964 Melrose Missile Plymouth? Or Butch Leal's 1965 California Flash Plymouth sedan?

gary

I have decals for the Calif. flash Duster. Never seen any for the older cars.

I know who to ask for any info about the old school stuff. Thats what I cut my teeth on. Good old Martin Drag way, south of Grand Rapids Mich. I bought my first new car 1970 Z/28 4 speed car from Berger Chevy on 28th st.

zgator wrote:

I have decals for the Calif. flash Duster. Never seen any for the older cars. I know who to ask for any info about the old school stuff. Thats what I cut my teeth on. Good old Martin Drag way, south of Grand Rapids Mich. I bought my first new car 1970 Z/28 4 speed car from Berger Chevy on 28th st.

Funny thing is that I've seen two completely different paint jobs on Leal's 1965 Plymouth. The most common one is a red body with all the white trim. But there also was either a dark blue or black one (that's the car he built with the prostock rear suspension that went 9.77). Butch also raced Fords and Chevys from time to time.

    I ordered a 1969 orange Z28 from Dick Hunt Cheverolet in Indy. The car was tobe trimed out in black with black accents well. It had the cross ram intake and four wheel disc brakes. As well as the optional off road suspension and off road cam option (most people didn't know about the optional suspension package and cam shaft on Z28's). When the car showed up it was trimmed in white and had the hound's tooth fabric on the seats. I hated it! I asked him to order another the way I wanted it, and they refused! I kept the red GTO for about a year and then moved into a hemi four speed car; never looked back.

    Lastly the Melrose Missile cars were kinda famous on the west coast in the mid sixties. Kinda plain looking silver. He's the guy who raced Weekly, Rivaro, Fox, Holding's fueler and beat it! They gave him a five car lengths behind the starting running start, and were somewhat P.O.'d for the next ten years over it!! That fueler was as fast as anybody's in the country at the time and had beaten just about everybody there was to beat. Wonder if Tommy Grove is still alive? Being as your from Michigan, you should know what and who was the first super stocker to make an eleven second pass (hint: it wasn't the Ramchargers).

gary

zgator wrote:

Man you got me now. I'll have to guess. I'll say Color Me Gone. I'm just trying to remember all the cars that I saw. Everybody matched raced there. If I'm wrong give me another hint.

The Golden Commandos Car Club at the 1962 Winter Nats. They ran an 11.92 in practice using a 420 hp max wedge (413" with 13.5 compression ratio & small carbs). I don't the those guys raced anymore after 1964 season. That 11.92 time was a full second faster than the average car in the superstock elimenator field. Don't remember them racing a 1963 car (probably did though), but they did show up an Indy in 1964 with a two door hardtop that created a ton of controversy. The car had a 114" wheel base when it should have had a 115" one, and was a light weight hemi at that. It was later proved tobe legit, but still didn't get to run much. NHRA said there were no hardtops built, but the fools forgot all about Richard Petty! The cars were always painted white with gold trim. Wish there were decales as it would be a pretty model.

gary

zgator wrote:

I'm sorry gary. I thought I had those decals. I'm pretty sure I do put they are probably in one of my Challenger kits that I can't get to very easy right now. I even googled and came up short. I'm pretty sure the car was dark green. The picture I have shows a black primer front fender. Probably from the aformentioned burnout mistake

there was a guy named Don Gathier (maybe spelled wrong) that had every Tom Dick & Harry mad back then. He was from the Omaha area I think. Back in 1968 or 69 he won Superstock Eliminator at the Nationals after the other guys were told to let him win. In the final he raced Ronnie Sox, and Sox redlighted on purpose running about seven tenths of a second faster than he did running full tilt. Wally Booth ran a green Superbee one year just for the fun of it.

gary

zgator wrote:

Dang Gary, I remember them!!! That little 1" WB thing was done by some others also. I've got a picture of a 70 Challenger pro-stock, I can't think of his name right now but he ran out of Nabraska or around there. Anyway if you look at it you can tell he has moved the rear wheels forword about an inch. If you were not in tune with this sort of thing you would never notice. Man I wish I could remember his name. His only real claim to fame was running into the back of another pro-stok in the burnout area. Man this is really bugging me. I've got decals for his car at the house. I'll let you know when I get home. I think his last name started with a "G"

How about Bill Maverick Golden? He was also the guy who built the "Little Red Wagon."

gary

zgator wrote:

Thats the guy gary!! you nailed it. Had no idea the back story on it though. Do you know why the race was rigged so he could win? I'll bet some $$ changed hands. Anyway thats the car I was telling you about the wheel base altering.

    Actually the story going around was that Chrysler wanted somebody else to win for a change. Being as the were the main sponser of both cars they told Ronnie Sox to let him win. So Sox did a crazy redlight while blowing both ends of the national record in the weeds!! (even though the time didn't count). That was the same week they did the "test & tune" at IRP and Sox ran a 9.30 on a 10.39 national record!!!!!!! I was there and saw them make several very low nine second runs, as well as take the fall in the finals. Butch Leal ran a 9.77 et that was faster than most of the SS/A cars (his was a SS/B car).

gary

zgator wrote:

Man, I'm really lost now. I found Dons body with the decals and it a Jo-han Cuda. Anyway the pro stock Challenger I found on the net had the rear wheels moved forward about an inch. I googled again and came uo blank. I'll try the cuda.

I discussed that car with my brother about a week ago, and he he said it was a Dodge, and for sure was not a factory sponsered car. When they changed the name on it the factory donated the parts to build it; even though they did it their own way instead of following the trend established by the big boys. He also showed me a couple of photos of Billy Stepp's Demon that was also a non factory sponsered car. Sox & Marten had the car protested only to find that it was was OK except for a slight weight distribution thing in favor of the rear (3% I think). That Demon was very fast, and was easilly the equal of Herb McCandless' Duster (also a S&M car but not a factory sponsered car).

gary

well your not gonna believe what I just saw a picture of! There was actually a Mowtown Missile car built on a 1971 Cuda body! That's one I never saw, and I've been in their pits more than once. Think it may have been the replacement for the 1970 Challanger, but before the name change.

gary