Laminating ( Gluing ) Sheet Styrene- Anyone Else Try It Lately?

I use Weld-On #3. No problems.

Thank you !

I will check for it.

i use the good old testors liguid cement (the stuff with the pink label) smells awful but once sheets are glued together with that, they aint coming apart.

How thick do you need it, and how many laminations are you doing?  My stock includes stuff up to 1/8 inch- beyond that I go to wood sheet, which is available up to an inch readily available.

Don Stauffer

How thick do you need it, and how many laminations are you doing?  My stock includes stuff up to 1/8 inch- beyond that I go to wood sheet, which is available up to an inch readily available.

I have 18"x14" sheets up to 1.43mm thick and expect to cut them up for laminating 1/25th scale  armor plates up to 3 sheets thick for hulls.

I may bend and laminate 2 sheets for Tiger I turrets, but will need to make bending / drying jigs.

Watching all those woodworking shows on PBS certainly helped the planning.

Sprue-ce Goose

 

Don Stauffer:

 

How thick do you need it, and how many laminations are you doing?  My stock includes stuff up to 1/8 inch- beyond that I go to wood sheet, which is available up to an inch readily available.

 

 

I have 18"x14" sheets up to 1.43mm thick and expect to cut them up for laminating 1/25th scale  armor plates up to 3 sheets thick for hulls.

I may bend and laminate 2 sheets for Tiger I turrets, but will need to make bending / drying jigs.

Watching all those woodworking shows on PBS certainly helped the planning.

Unless you are building in a very large scale, and need super-large pieces, wouldn't it be a lot easier to just go to hobby shop and buy nearest size to what you need? If you need thicker than what your hobby shop stocks,  it is easy to order online in this day and age. Plastruct is well set up for online ordering.

If you're not in a huge hurry, check in with your local signage shops & see if they have any plastic off-cuts laying around...

Don Stauffer

Sprue-ce Goose:

Don Stauffer:

How thick do you need it, and how many laminations are you doing?  My stock includes stuff up to 1/8 inch- beyond that I go to wood sheet, which is available up to an inch readily available.

I have 18"x14" sheets up to 1.43mm thick and expect to cut them up for laminating 1/25th scale  armor plates up to 3 sheets thick for hulls.

I may bend and laminate 2 sheets for Tiger I turrets, but will need to make bending / drying jigs.

Watching all those woodworking shows on PBS certainly helped the planning.

 

 

Unless you are building in a very large scale, and need super-large pieces, wouldn't it be a lot easier to just go to hobby shop and buy nearest size to what you need? If you need thicker than what your hobby shop stocks,  it is easy to order online in this day and age. Plastruct is well set up for online ordering.

I am starting this project for the following reasons:

1-The experience I will gain

2-Kits are either unavailable or too expensive to buy multiple copies

3- Cost- I only paid 64 cents per sheet for the 18"x14" sheets of styrene and $5.50 for a gallon of MEK..

Regarding thicker plastic available from manufacturers:

I believe the thickest plastic I have seen in hobby shops appears to be roughly 2mm thick and costs much, much more than 64 cents a sheet. Sheets are also only about 10 " x 8 " if I recall correctly.

As I was able to purchase MEK at $5.50 for a gallon, the cost of laminating styrene plastic sheets is minor.

In any case, I know of no practical or easy method for bending thick sheets of plastic into a curved form.

The Tiger I turret is , essentially, the shape of a cylinder.

As in wood working, laminating plastic sheets in a form  (or jig ) will also help the part retain it's shape once cured.

1/25th scale tank kits are not produced in large numbers and are restricted to a few tank versions.

Those few kits that are produced tend to be too expensive for building multiple examples.

I would like to have three or more examples of each Tiger I version ( and camo styles ) in 1/25th scale but paying $100,00 or more - with S& H -  for each kit is just not practical.

The Tiger I kit will essentially be used as a pattern and, as such , justified the absurdly high cost of purchase.

I never before paid this much for a kit and doubt I will again.

I am not certain if I will actually build the kit or re-sell it once I have ( hopefully ) successfully created 1/25th scale copies.

Tiger II kits in 1/25th scale do not exist and the only way to own an example in that scale is via scratch building the models.

I also intend to try scratch building various Panther tank versions  though I'm yet uncertain about how to easily duplicate those big road wheels in that scale.

Perhaps resin casting will work for duplicating Panther road wheels, or I may need to turn them manually in a lathe.

VanceCrozier

If you're not in a huge hurry, check in with your local signage shops & see if they have any plastic off-cuts laying around...

Good idea!

I hope I have acquired enough plastic stock, but that will be a good place to check should my projects require more.

MEK has been black-flagged by the EPA? Surely you have black-market connections in Chicago that can find the good stuff for you!

VanceCrozier

MEK has been black-flagged by the EPA? Surely you have black-market connections in Chicago that can find the good stuff for you!

I'm not certain the "Chicago Machine" gets it's pay in the form of  MEK...................

............just sayin'.................

Sprue-ce Goose

Those few kits that are produced tend to be too expensive for  to build multiple examples.

I would like to have three or more examples of each Tiger I version ( and camo styles ) in 1/25th scale but paying $100,00 or more - with S& H -  for each kit is just not practical.

 

 

i know where you can get the Tamiya Tiger I in 1/25 with shipping and handling for less than $90.00........still kinda expensive, but pretty cheap compared to most places.

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Military_Vehicles/TAM00030611/product.php?s=0&t=2&u=10&pg=1&ppp=24&sb=stocknumber&so=a&sc=25

TheWildChild

 

Sprue-ce Goose:

 

 

Those few kits that are produced tend to be too expensive for  to build multiple examples.

 

I would like to have three or more examples of each Tiger I version ( and camo styles ) in 1/25th scale but paying $100,00 or more - with S& H -  for each kit is just not practical.

 

 

i know where you can get the Tamiya Tiger I in 1/25 with shipping and handling for less than $90.00........still kinda expensive, but pretty cheap compared to most places.

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Military_Vehicles/TAM00030611/product.php?s=0&t=2&u=10&pg=1&ppp=24&sb=stocknumber&so=a&sc=25

Thanks for the link.

Oddly, I located that place a few days ago while searching for other Tamiya 1/25 scale kits

I have one Tamiya 1/25 Tiger I  example, but am still balking at buying further examples due to cost.

I won't know how things sort out until I try duplicating the Tiger I road wheels and tread and  may decide otherwise depending on the cost to duplicate those items.

I 've noticed some 1/35th scale armor kits are edging close to or beyond that price range.

Granted they have more detail, but the kits are still expensive.

yeah thats true about the prices. at 1/25 scale, you can scratchbuild details easier (in my opinion) than 1/35th. i build mostly 1/24-1/25th scale cars and 1/35 armor and i find 1/24-25 much easier to work with....although its ALOT easier to find the PE detail sets in 1/35

TheWildChild

yeah thats true about the prices. at 1/25 scale, you can scratchbuild details easier (in my opinion) than 1/35th. i build mostly 1/24-1/25th scale cars and 1/35 armor and i find 1/24-25 much easier to work with....although its ALOT easier to find the PE detail sets in 1/35

I decided on 1/25th armor because I have the Rommel's Rod and a few other car projects.

I wanted something that would put the Rommel's Rod in perspective- huge !

That Rommel's Rod is only a little shorter than the 1/25th Tamiya Panther A kit.

HEY ! S.GOOSE ! I wonder what the problem is ? I have laminated sheets of all sizes and thicknesses in all kinds of projects and have done so for years . I do NOT use MEK and wont . I do use TESTORS liquid cement and have built large model ships for clients . Now that takes a lot of large laminated sheets when you consider ARMOR Plating , frames and keels . Yes  I do all my scratchbuilt  ships like the wood ones are done , only it,s laminated panels on laminated frames mounted to laminated keels . I do this for strength and thickness where a lot of sanding might be done . I have NEVER had any problem bending a laminated sheet into the shape I need .The trick is , do the curve with one sheet and then lay another over the top .When dry it WILL keep its shape and in the thinner sheets it will flex pretty well . Think about itf or a minute , I build ALL my R.C. vessels out of laminated sheet plastic and none have sunk yet ! Some are now over 12 years old . There is no sign of delaminating or leaking in any . If you are doing armor in 1/35 scale then there should be no problem .Curve the first sheet and then lay the other over it . CLAMP WELL into the curved sheet and then glue using whatever you like .As I,ve said I see no reason for MEK .It is dangerous stuff and I know of two cases where whole shops were destroyed when the fire that was in progress hit that stuff . If you do use it , then keep the space very well ventilated and I do mean that ! If you bought that much get an approved fire-resistant safety container for the stuff .When I was engine line supervisor at BAJA boats in NORTH LITTLE ROCK years ago I seem to remember a five gallon can with a spring loaded lid with a seal and it was double wall as well . This I do recommend .Happy modeling .       tankerbuilder

Hi , ME again . I have had had  very good luck turning lexan on a home made lathe . It just takes patience and time .You cannot do it fast , but the parts do come out beautiful . In your case , did you say 1/25 scale ? that scale should be easier to do laminate sheets for . I have sheets up to .080 thick and two sheets would be about right ,you think ? Tankerbuilder

tankerbuilder

HEY ! S.GOOSE ! I wonder what the problem is ? I have laminated sheets of all sizes and thicknesses in all kinds of projects and have done so for years . I do NOT use MEK and wont . I do use TESTORS liquid cement and have built large model ships for clients . Now that takes a lot of large laminated sheets when you consider ARMOR Plating , frames and keels . Yes  I do all my scratchbuilt  ships like the wood ones are done , only it,s laminated panels on laminated frames mounted to laminated keels . I do this for strength and thickness where a lot of sanding might be done . I have NEVER had any problem bending a laminated sheet into the shape I need .The trick is , do the curve with one sheet and then lay another over the top .When dry it WILL keep its shape and in the thinner sheets it will flex pretty well . Think about itf or a minute , I build ALL my R.C. vessels out of laminated sheet plastic and none have sunk yet ! Some are now over 12 years old . There is no sign of delaminating or leaking in any . If you are doing armor in 1/35 scale then there should be no problem .Curve the first sheet and then lay the other over it . CLAMP WELL into the curved sheet and then glue using whatever you like .As I,ve said I see no reason for MEK .It is dangerous stuff and I know of two cases where whole shops were destroyed when the fire that was in progress hit that stuff . If you do use it , then keep the space very well ventilated and I do mean that ! If you bought that much get an approved fire-resistant safety container for the stuff .When I was engine line supervisor at BAJA boats in NORTH LITTLE ROCK years ago I seem to remember a five gallon can with a spring loaded lid with a seal and it was double wall as well . This I do recommend .Happy modeling .       tankerbuilder

Thanks for the info.

No problem-just checking what others have been doing.

Actually, I did mention in an earlier post that I would be using wood working techniques for laminating plastic- all those Roy Underhill / Woodwright and Norm Abram - / New Yankee Workshop shows came in handy.

I will be making clamping jigs for the same reason that woodworkers use them. Hold strips in a specific shape while the substrate sets up and dries.

Thanks for the warning re: MEK.

Question:

What Testors glue are you using, ie; does it contain MEK?

Also: I understand about fire hazards. However I would use the same safety precautions for use as I would for petrol , paint thinner, etc.

tankerbuilder

Hi , ME again . I have had had  very good luck turning lexan on a home made lathe . It just takes patience and time .You cannot do it fast , but the parts do come out beautiful . In your case , did you say 1/25 scale ? that scale should be easier to do laminate sheets for . I have sheets up to .080 thick and two sheets would be about right ,you think ? Tankerbuilder

Thanks again for the info.

As I do not intend to make tanks with interiors, I have the luxury of adding an extra layer or two for added strength as I would incorporate interlocking tabs and bond the armor plates over special jigs.

I am , at this point , only at the initial stage of making paper hull patterns. of a Tiger I in 1/25th.

The biggest challenge will be the best method for making the correct 20 tooth drive sprockets and track links

( Tamiya supplies 15 tooth drive gears and  ( matching ) track links  that are too big due to the larger distance between spur gear teeth . )

May need to use metalworking techniques to make a master drive sprocket.

I may try using Lexan for running gear parts if strong enough as I own a small metal working lathe.

I did, using Evergreen sheet and Plastruct's liquid glue, for a couple of projects, though they were smaller in size, I think.

One was to make the conning tower for my 1/700 USS Pennsylvania.  I laminated some small rectangles of sheet to make a blank:

which I marked with a template:

and which I then sawed, filed and sanded to the finished shape:

The liquid glue was sufficient to weld the pieces together and the bond was strong enough to withstand the stresses of the shaping.  I did wait 24 hours between gluing up the block and then shaping it, just to make sure that the glue had cured.

Another example is my modification of the kit wheels from a Monogram Hellcat.  They're way too thin, so I sawed them in half, sandwiched some squares of styrene in between, glued them up with the Plastruct liquid, and then shaped them when the glue had cured:

With the blanks installed:

after some rough shaping:

and sanded to shape:

For that last pass, I had mounted the wheels on a mandrel for my Dremel, and used that to turn the wheels while I held sandpaper to them.  They held up through those stresses pretty well.

Hope that helps!

Brad

COOL !

Sprue;

I have the Bandai 1/24 King Tiger and Tamiya 1/25 Tiger I. I always wanted to build them with scale thickness armor, which means laminating from the inside.

Over the years I've accumulated styrene sheet stock, the best buy from a plastics wholesaler where I can get 4' by 8' sheets for around 40-50 bucks, I usually cut them down into 2' by 2' sheets.

Here are a few snaps of the progress on the King Tiger:

Naturally, I lied, this is on the outside underside, too crammed on the inside:

Note the plastic conformed to dips, detail, ejector, and shrink marks:

Front bottom glacis:

Side armour, black plastic is an industrial styrene strip, finished with laminated evergreen-style sheet:

Scratches are final burnishing:

Front glacis, same thick industrial styrene, finished with thin sheet to top up the scale thickness:

You can see the laminations a bit better:

The 'scale' I used was to follow the manufacturer's suggested weld marks, close enough:

Camera lens distortion, it doesn't look quite that warped in real life, side armor thickness matches the weld detail:

Back of the turret:

Right-side inside turret:

I have to rearrange the hardware inside the tank, Bandai didn't figure on a scale thickness glacis:

So that's the basic beast.

I used laquer thinners and a 3/4 inch paint brush to apply to the large areas. Well ventilated. MEK vaporizes too fast and creates bubbles. The toluene dries slower and I clamped, and those marks inside the turret are from a high pressure burnishing to insure there were no bubbles and provides full contact.

The technique was to apply a very thin amount of glue to both model and laminate sides, which only takes a few seconds to go into tack or dry, then a generous helping on the cut piece of laminate, then apply and clamp. I burnished after 15 minutes to ensure adhesion.

Yes, the plastic can actually soften a bit, so I let cure a full week or two before repeat operations. Its worth practicing on some waste material to test results.

I cut paper patterns, as was suggested above, for the turret and then bullied the styrene parts over the edge of a desk as well as persuaded it a hair dryer until it cooperated before I attempted gluing.

Tiger I's turret armor was a four inch thick plate wrapped red hot around a huge mandrel. Not a bad suggestion if you find the right diameter mandrel, then build it in three or so laminations.

Bockscar

Sprue;

I have the Bandai 1/24 King Tiger and Tamiya 1/25 Tiger I. I always wanted to build them with scale thickness armor, which means laminating from the inside.

Over the years I've accumulated styrene sheet stock, the best buy from a plastics wholesaler where I can get 4' by 8' sheets for around 40-50 bucks, I usually cut them down into 2' by 2' sheets.

Front glacis, same thick industrial styrene, finished with thin sheet to top up the scale thickness:

The 'scale' I used was to follow the manufacturer's suggested weld marks, close enough:

I used laquer thinners and a 3/4 inch paint brush to apply to the large areas. Well ventilated. MEK vaporizes too fast and creates bubbles. The toluene dries slower and I clamped, and those marks inside the turret are from a high pressure burnishing to insure there were no bubbles and provides full contact.

The technique was to apply a very thin amount of glue to both model and laminate sides, which only takes a few seconds to go into tack or dry, then a generous helping on the cut piece of laminate, then apply and clamp. I burnished after 15 minutes to ensure adhesion.

Yes, the plastic can actually soften a bit, so I let cure a full week or two before repeat operations. Its worth practicing on some waste material to test results.

I cut paper patterns, as was suggested above, for the turret and then bullied the styrene parts over the edge of a desk as well as persuaded it a hair dryer until it cooperated before I attempted gluing.

Tiger I's turret armor was a four inch thick plate wrapped red hot around a huge mandrel. Not a bad suggestion if you find the right diameter mandrel, then build it in three or so laminations.

Bockscar

Thanks for the interesting photos and very informative construction information.

Yes, for a Tiger I turret, I plan to make a mandrel so that I can clamp / glue the sheets around the mandrel in the same manner used by woodworkers.

I intend to use sheet styrene laminations to make scale thickness armor plate ( as you did by matching plate weld sizes ) and turn acrylic rod in a lathe for road wheels and drive gears.

I'm still undecided whether I will make separate spur gear rings for mating with and producing the final drive sprocket  in the same manner as performed at the factories.

I do know I'll need to experiment quite a bit on the best method of creating the laminations and many jigs will be necessary to reduce the amount of tedious hand work.

Hey Sprue;

That's an exciting build!

If you have the time and inclination would like to follow your progress on a WIP post!

Just a note on Tankerbuilder's comments:

I always keep a small controlled amount of MEK, Lacquer thinners, or acetone around, and never more than a fluid ounce.

I once knocked over a two ounce container of acetone, it's basically the same chemical as MEK, and it vaporized so fast I thought the place was going to blow up with a tiny spark. I grabbed some towlets to throw on the puddle and grabbed some magazines with the other hand to try and dilute the explosive gas/air mixture i made.

Who says model building isn't a blast?

Yeah,Tanker's got the right lamination ideas.

Bockscar

Hey Sprue;

That's an exciting build!

If you have the time and inclination would like to follow your progress on a WIP post!

I don't yet know when I will post photos simply because my camera doesn't take very  good macro photos and I spent my hobby money on kits, plastic and some metal working accessories for my small lathe.

I have started making paper hull patterns for a Tiger I using the Tamiya kit as a pattern.

Final patterns made from card stock ( with mating tabs ) are next ; a hull assembly jig would follow for aligning armor plates.

Because I don't own a spray booth, gluing styrene won't begin until Spring weather allows opening my windows

for ventilation.

Bockscar

Just a note on Tankerbuilder's comments:

I always keep a small controlled amount of MEK, Lacquer thinners, or acetone around, and never more than a fluid ounce.

I once knocked over a two ounce container of acetone, it's basically the same chemical as MEK, and it vaporized so fast I thought the place was going to blow up with a tiny spark. I grabbed some towlets to throw on the puddle and grabbed some magazines with the other hand to try and dilute the explosive gas/air mixture i made.

Who says model building isn't a blast?

Yeah,Tanker's got the right lamination ideas.

Yes, I had a similar experience when a small tin of layout dye ( for metal working )  spilled.

Couldn't vent the work area fast enough due to the dye carrier liquid fumes.

I intend to purchase a Laboratory safety can and transfer the MEK to it for storage and use a small glass jar for an ounce of MEK for use during construction.

I'm looking for one now, great suggestion.

By the way, speaking of things that go pow, check this out, a Panther turret hit by a 152mm HE round, note the 'delamination' on the 'floor' section of the turret:

Ouch!

Bockscar

By the way, speaking of things that go pow, check this out, a Panther turret hit by a 152mm HE round, note the 'delamination' on the 'floor' section of the turret:

Ouch!

And somewhere, someone is probably contemplating the possibility of such a build.