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Scratchbuilding a 'Nam era, Program IV, Armored Troop Carrier, "Tango" boat

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  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Scratchbuilding a 'Nam era, Program IV, Armored Troop Carrier, "Tango" boat
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Friday, January 3, 2020 3:26 PM

So, last year I started working on a 1:12 scale 50' PCF Mk1. In doing so, I quickly found my limitations in modeling, so I shifted gears and started on something a bit simpler, a 1:12 scale Vietnam era Tango Boat (not so many compound curves to deal with). Anyway, I got to thinking that Dumas or one of the other companies of that sort should make a kit of the LCM 6, be it the Mod 0, or Mod 1. THe LCM 6 is the basis for numerous other boats from WWII clear up the present day. Having a simple kit to start with would be awesome.

Whomever could produce it in 3/4"=1' (same as the Dumas 'Dauntless', and others) and probably do very well with it. It has such potential, especially in the RC realm.

Hey, think about it guys. 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, January 3, 2020 4:18 PM

Hi There;

     If you look around carefully on R.C.Sites you should be able to find 1/96 scale L.C.M.- 6 model hulls. I remember seeing them as far back as 1995

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Friday, January 3, 2020 5:35 PM

True, But I'm thinking at 1:16 and 1:12 scales, sizes suitable for RC. A 1:96 scale LCM 6 is only smaller than a shoebox. The realistic minimum would be 1:24.

Of course, in that light, I'd also like to see suitable scale accessories, weaps, etc. too.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, January 5, 2020 11:35 AM

Now:

       Here's one for you. The Hulls don't cost that much. Get one and Scale it up. They are fairly accurate. Don't forget as well, the L.C.M had two styles of Screw Tunnels. This depended on the Navy Specs sent to and proven by the manufacturers. 

      My boats,( I had four) were unique in that respect. Two had the round tunnels and two had the squared tunnels. The round tunnel version created less of a Roostertail at speed.

      At speed of course was 6.5 Mph! It's quite comical watching a boat literally crawl along putting out a roil at the stern that looked like it should be going like a Bat outta H$&& and it could only go 8 knots max! 

      As far as equipment, most would have to be scratchbuilt, including any weapons. I don't know what scale G.I.Joe was, But I always envisioned one of my boats Rigged for Oil Spill work in that scale  - R.C.d of course

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Sunday, January 5, 2020 7:44 PM

I had originally considered doing G.I. Joe scale (1:6), but that would have made the 6 boat model about eight foot, 4 inches long. Would be fun, but not my idea for a first time try. Instead, I went 1:12 scale / 1"= 1', for a realizable 56"'s long. Most fitting are either available or fairly easy to scratch build, but the weaps are slim. I've found .50 BMG's. but no 20mm's or M60's. Bummer. I'm wondering what the cost would be to get them 3D printed?

As for the model, I'm doing the rounded tunnels, per the LCM 6 Mod 0 drawings I have.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 10:17 AM

Aha!

    Don't forget too that the well deck drops deeper in the boat as you come aft from the bow. Also There is the thing with Armaments. Mine didn't even have hard points. Hmmm.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Tuesday, January 7, 2020 11:03 AM

I am very aware of the configuration of the '6-boat, I used to drive one back in the day. The well deck is level erom the ramp to frame 3, then angles down to frame 8, then goes level again. The other thing to be aware of, especially in conversions, is what model 6-boat you are starting with. As mine is an early model Tango Boat conversion, I'm building the LCM 6 Mod 0. Later Tango's were built on the LCM 6 Mod 1.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 11:32 AM

Hi;

       I am well aware of the differences. But, I can tell you this, they had a long enough flat area aft in the Well-Deck that I went 10 foot forward and created a W/T bulkhead with two doors for a Generator room. Using them in Oil Spill work required the extra power.

      The thing that was most noticeable was this. Not remembering the Model numbers , the One boat had " Wet" exhaust and the Two boat had " Dry" exhaust. You sure as heck could tell the difference too!

       Boat Three, Dry Exhaust, in single stack aft of the Wheelhouse, was a great platform for Salvage work. The Crane base was in the Well-Deck just forward of the Wheel-House on the centerline. That way we could use moveable weights for stability when doing a lift Port or Starboard.

      The advantage was that if the vessel being salvaged came up in pieces we could set the stuff centerline forward of the crane in the lowest part of the boat. She didn't have the Generator room cause her engines produced enough power for that work.

      I went so far as to convert one for a friend as a live-Aboard alongside an L.C.V.P. I had done too. The V.P. Retained it's forward ramp as a " Deck" connecting it to the dock when the owner was home.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Wednesday, January 8, 2020 8:14 PM

Until the Navy came out with the "Standard Navy Dive Boat" back in the 90's, every other dive boat I've worked off of was either a converted LCM 3, or LCM 6. Most had an auxiliary generator of some sort, and had either a fixed or modular air system, or combination thereof. Your's and my backgrounds ( and many other's like us) are the reason I'd like to see a commercially produced kit, of decent RC-able size. I have no doubt that others out there would love to build their own landing craft / dive boats / work boats. And, if a company like Dumas did it, it could get popular fast. I know i'd buy at least one if not more.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Thursday, January 9, 2020 3:33 PM

Hello!

Now isn't this a nice, no-BS-technical-dscussion! But I wouldn't be so sure if enough people gave a damn to justify a mass production of a model like this... A decent LCM6 isn't even available in 1:35 nor in 1:72... You have to stretch a LCM3 to get one - and that's what I want to do one day to build a Tango from Vietnam, but I don't I have enough place for a 1:35 version - I think it would have to be 1:72. One with a helo deck would make a very nice display with a Huey or an OH-23 for that mattter...

If you want 1:12 or 1:24 weapons, look 'em up on Shapeways for pricing - the thing is the bigger those babies are, the more they cost. Please keep in mind that most sellers are willing to rescale a model for you if thay have something that's close - I mean if you find a 1:15 Ma Deuce you like, ask the seller to do it for you in say, 1:12, and most of them can do that.

And if you could write a little about the differences between Mod 0 and Mod 1 - that could be interesting!

Good luck with that LCM6 - I think it's coming along great for now, looking forward to more WIP pictures, and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Thursday, January 9, 2020 5:35 PM

The following is my understanding, and could very well be not quite right or complete. As for the American LCM 6 landing craft, The Mod 0 is simply an LCM 3 lengthened by 6 feet. It has the same lower freeboard and raised engine cover. On the Mod 1, they raised the entire freeboard height to match the engine cover height and I believe changed the tunnel configuration. The Mod 2 brought about an engine change from the Grey Marine 64HND or HN9 to the Detroit Diesel 6-71. There may be a few other alterations among the models as they were produced by several manufacturers. Later alterations included the "slab-side" model which has no taper at the stern and an aluminum armored pilot house. I think that model also had V8-71 or V12-71 engines and kort nozzles. That thing was a beast, and almost looked like an narrow LCM 8!   

  • Member since
    October 2005
Posted by CG Bob on Friday, January 10, 2020 9:09 PM

Speedline Models in the UK had a 1/16th scale LCM.  

 

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Saturday, January 11, 2020 7:33 PM

Looks like a nice kit, lots of detail. I prefer the LCM 6 vice the 3 boat. It would be nice if they gave you the option to extend it to the 6 boat (LCM 6 Mod 0) length.

Frankly, If someone produced these commercially, as a wood kit, I'd probably pick up a couple. Aside the Tango Boat I'm building now, I could build other 'Nam era craft and models of the Navy dive boats I've run / worked off of. And then, there is the Specialty craft I'd like to build also.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, January 14, 2020 3:43 PM

Well Yeah;

      Based on that info, mine were Mod 2 units. Still the LCM any-Mod was a useful ole cuss! Shoot, Ferry Boats, Inter-Island Cargo Boats in the Pacific ( Post-War) ( Even now in Alaska).Coast Guard Boats( Foriegn Navies) Salvage Boats, Oil Spill Skim Boats, Garbage Scows, Shallow River Freighters and Passenger Vessels, And various oceanic Offshore and Inshore command research craft too. Shall I continue?  Oh, and lastly River and Inlet Construction Service and Gravel haulers.!!!

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, January 14, 2020 3:46 PM

One more thing.

      The " Slab Side" model was a bear to control as was an " 8 " boat. Didn't like the way they wallowed responding to Helm Input!

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Tuesday, January 14, 2020 7:26 PM

That's a fact. The 8 Boat is a pig! We used to bring them into the ship's well deck two at a time, married together, side by side. That was before I went diver, back in my Snipe days in the Gator Navy.

Anyway, here is the Tango Boat so far. Basic ATC hull is done, and I'm into the bow ramp sub-assembly. Now it's time to break out the Bondo .  .  . Fun, Fun, Fun !

  

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, January 20, 2020 10:04 AM

Hi;

 Well, that is looking good. !

  • Member since
    September 2010
Posted by retdfeuerwehr on Thursday, January 30, 2020 8:31 PM

I drove an LCM-8 at Assault Craft Unit ONE in 1970 at USNAB Coronado and loved that boat. Sure, it really was a "pig",  but one could park that 73-footer in a 70' space (with twin screws, who needs a rudder?). My boat (LCM736) was an old steel boat, but it sure seemed more sea-worthy than the newer aluminum boats, especially when retracting and making that u-turn past the surfline.

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Tuesday, February 4, 2020 7:23 PM

So, despite the limited availability of Tango boat drawings, progress is being made using those that are available and what photos are around.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, February 6, 2020 10:52 AM

Oh My!

 That is developing into Quite a formidable beast!

 There was, Back in the late 90s a company or individual selling 8 and 6 hulls in fibreglas. They showed and demonstrated them at the Golden Gate Model Yacht club Yearly event in the park. I remember I was impressed , but, I was running " Minis" at the time.

 "Minis"( By GGMYC standards) any vessel intended to be a static model out of the box in scales smaller than 1:32. Most of mine were 1/456 and 1/535-Yup, Revell and others " Box Scale" . Renwal Cruisers worked a wee bit better than Revell's though. Don't know why. 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, February 6, 2020 10:57 AM

Pawel;

    You and I have had discussions that have gone along nicely like this. What is it that allows us to do this? Must be we are just interested in the subject, and not Argumentative about it?

     Now that said, Here's one for you. Somewhere in the forums I have posted about two new paper(Card) models I am getting. I will keep you posted. T.B.        P.S. I like the Euro Name ( Card) for the models. " Paper" makes them sound childish to vendors here.

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, February 6, 2020 11:04 AM

Hi;

      There was an instance our stability was tested big time. Picture this. Stormy night with eight footers running in the bay. Wind at 28 knots . Lost engines. By the time we got started again we had heeled to the point the lower deck aft( next to the rise for the engine hatch) was trying to go under. 

       I thought, with our Wheelhouse and Spreader rig for the oil gear we were gonna go over. Everything on the Port side of the House wound up on the starboard side. Well deck Gear too. Suddenly she just popped upright like she had a sailboat keel under her! We all checked out clothing after that!!

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Thursday, February 6, 2020 11:17 AM

TB - I'm lookin' forward to news from you, but please post them in my thread or in your thread, so as not to clutter up this one - it's far too nice for that!

By the way - Brian - don't you think it would be better to change the name of this thread to something like "Scratchbuilding a Vietnam Tango Boat"? You can do that by editing your first, original post - change to it's title changes the title of the whole thread.

Good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Saturday, February 8, 2020 4:44 PM

Good idea, done .  .  .  though I'm still trying to get our friends in Tucson (Dumas) to produce an LCM 6 kit in 1/2 " or 3/4" scale. My goal is to give fellow modellers a base hull from which to build the several Vietnam era riverine crafts, in addition to the various workboats, dive boats, and other alterations, besides building them as working landing craft. I'm fairly sure it will be a long time coming, but hey, I got to try.

So, just to keep all up to date .  .  .

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, February 10, 2020 8:49 AM

Hmmmm;

         I would like to see both. I found out, if, I could've obtained an 8 boat, that the hull to cargo well distance was such I could put the LORI boxes and brushes inside the hull. Instead of mounting them over the side like on my 6s.

   There are so many uses these poor boats were put too. They certainly, like the WW-2 Fletcher and late war Gearings filled a need. Plus, time proved they were actually " Overbuilt"

   I found one down here in TEXAS that has had nominal but regular care and maintenance. She is still performing as designed with her ORIGINAL engines! I guess the adage "Keep it Simple, Stupid" worked there .

     There is a need for a larger L.C.V.P. too. Just think ! One converted to a dive boat!

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 10, 2020 10:14 AM

This is enjoyable to read.

I have a small story. Tanks will know the locales. 

In the late eighties I was designing (on a team) a State office building in the Civic Center in San Francisco. The design included an eighteen foot diameter State Seal over the main entrance. 

We had the thing made up in Petaluma in a barn owned by a guy who did a lot of large scale models in the early days of Industrial Light and Magic. Star Wars stuff all over the place. For a number of reasons it had to be made in one piece.

When it was finished, a side of the barn was removed, the seal was loaded on a flatbed at about a 45 deg list to one side, and driven on backroads down to the Petaluma River docks.

There the rig was backed onto an LCM. Now, that boat's purpose in life was to dredge oysters in the Bay to be used for feeding the cluckers up there in the "chicken capital of the world".It had a sort of backhoe mounted amidships just forward of the wheelhouse.

To describe it as a smelly mess would be an understatement.

Four hour trip down the Bay to a pier in Mission Creek, where there's now a big ballpark.

Early the next morning the trailer was hauled up Third Street to Market Street. There the Muni Railroad dropped the trolley wires to allow the seal to cross. Up Third from there to Van Ness, and installed on the building.

Somewhere I've got photos.

 

Bill

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Monday, February 10, 2020 11:42 AM

Well guys, with all the stories out there, there appears to be a 'need' for these models. I suggest that we each either call, write, or at least email the wonderful folks at Dumas Products, (909 East 17th Street, Tucson, AZ 85719) and let them know about this 'need'. It may help; I mean, all things considered, a six boat hull can't be all that hard to engineer into a model. Twenty frames, looks like a shoebox with a big ramp at one end. The hardest part would probably be the prop tunnel, and I would suggest that that part be a molded plastic insert. The tunnels are damn near identical and could easily be made so.

I would suggest an LCM 6 Mod 1, as that model was used for nearly e v e r y t h i n g !!!

Just my humble opinion. 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Monday, February 10, 2020 3:13 PM

Amen,Amen, I say to thee: Send me a 6 by any mfgr. Pleeeeze

  • Member since
    August 2019
  • From: Central Oregon
Posted by HooYah Deep Sea on Monday, February 10, 2020 5:20 PM

Like I said, They won't make it if we don't tell them we want it!

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 8:16 AM

Will keep an eye on this thread, as I want to do something similar.  I'm going to attempt to build a 1/48th waterline version of the CCB my brother served on in Vietnam with RAD 112.  It should be just over 15" long, so not as difficult to find a place to display it as yours.

Interested in how you plan to do the stand-off rebar armor.

Gary

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