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Decals for figures?

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  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: Toronto
Decals for figures?
Posted by BGuy on Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:52 AM

I've got a couple of medieval knight type figures from Andrea I'm looking to tackle soon, but something that's always bothered me is that, being an untalented artist, I won't be able to do a nice insignia on shields, tunics, etc..  To that end I'd think there would be decals for these purposes--after all, every single POSSIBLE aircraft and armor subject in HISTORY seems to have aftermarket stuff for it, surely somebody would have done a few odd decal sets for figures of this sort? 

 I've searched around though, and found nothing, so what do most figure painters do when they want, say, a really cool detailed dragon image on the front of a knight's shield and/or tunic?

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: clinton twp, michigan
Posted by camo junkie on Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:14 AM
sounds like maybe they make their own decals...not sure...have ya put any thought into that? just curious. companies like micro mart sell their own decal paper in which you can make your own decals printed on a computer printer. doesnt have to be your drawing, you can look up dragon designes and find one ya like and print it! just me My 2 cents [2c]
"An idea is only as good as the person who thought of it...and only as brilliant as the person who makes it!!"
  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: Toronto
Posted by BGuy on Sunday, May 17, 2009 8:00 PM

I'm afraid it's not that simple.  Most artists I've seen who do beautiful artwork on figures are seriously hardcore artisans and do their work by hand.  Other, lesser examples I've seen resort to simple patterns (i.e. stripes or just solid colours) instead of something like a crest. 

If simply printing out a decal was an option I'd have simply done it, but my printer is 90% broken and only produces poor b&w documents.  Searching my decal stash also failed to reveal anything genuinely suitable.  That's why I'm now looking for decals specially made for figure applications.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Sunday, May 17, 2009 9:49 PM
Andrea makes several sets of dry transfer heraldic charges. These are a variety of charges, scales and colors. They are also broken up into regional influences as well. French, English, Italian, German, secular and religious.

If you want to try something by hand, start off easy. Crosses, simple field divisions, rondels (circles), Mullets (stars), a general book likethe Fox-Davies Heraldry will give you plenty of simple heraldic ideas to warm up and as you become more comfortable you can try an ever increasing difficulty of things to paint.

A word of advice here too. And this is my personal opinion.
We tend to look at things with a modern artistic aesthetic when it comes to medieval art and representation. Look at the medieval manuscripts that illustrate heraldry and you will see something that looks rather childish in execution. Manuscripts like the accounts by Joinville, Froissart, De Charny, Gerald of Wales, Mathew Paris, and books of hours and bibles like the Macejowski, Bedford Hours, Luttrell Psalter, Manessa Liederhandshrift, etc, illuminations from the 10th c. to the 13th-14th centuries, all have what we would consider today to be very crude depictions of heraldic charges like beasts, objects, people, symbols, etc. Not well executed, Frazetta, Hildebrandt, Waterhouse, Soriyama, Howe, Embleton, fine illustration. While individual style can vary and there are examples of very well proportioned and illustrated subjects, it wasn't all like that. Even in the modern era, a quick glance at aircraft nose art will give you a selection of artwork that looks like it came off some grade school kids notebook doodlings running the gambit to an Olivia or Vargas pin-up. And several very bad copies in between of the latter.

Modern expectations are a result of the machine age, the appreciation of a photo realistic illustration and or manipulation and a wealth of very talented artists that have a level of exposure to an audience un-parralleled. Yes, some if not most judges will be impressed by a modern illustration but its ironic that they miss the point all together when they look for period authenticity in the execution of the figure and its clothing and applaud some of the most blatant anachronisms on the piece.

In short. When doing medieval representations of heraldry, don't look at them with a modern eye, look at them with a medieval eye. Any book with illustrations of heraldry showing reproductions of those blazons will prove my point and allow you to relaxe a bit regarding your painting. Be wary of Victorian era publishings (they tended to "fill in the blanks" a bit too much) and look for medieval artwork.

When you are ready to paint your own, take a piece of card stock and paint a base coat on it. Take your shield or a stencil of the shield and draw an outline of it on the painted stock. Now lightly using a pencil draw your charge and then go over it with your base coat of paint. Build up coats and detail over several applications. This way you get the benefit of "practicing" before you tackle the actual figure itself. One of the things you'll find is that artists break these art pieces down to a series of simple brush strokes. A dragon may start out as an "S" shape and everything else is built up from that.

Good luck and have some fun with it.
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: Toronto
Posted by BGuy on Monday, May 18, 2009 1:14 PM

renarts,

That is one hell of an AWESOME reply!  You covered all the bases and gave me some great background. 

Presently I'm working on my figure-painting technique with some plastic figures, anticipating the two metal figures I have in the stash--one of them being Andrea's Joan of Arc (SM-F41), the other a more generic knight figure (SM-F23).  I did some research and found a website: (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jean-claude.colrat/2-incontournables.htm#incontournables)  that lists details (and heraldry!) of Joan's entorange.  That led me to the idea of a small diorama with both figures standing back to back, with the knight painted as somebody like Jean de Valois or one of Joan's other military companions.  

Anyway, if you don't have further comments I've only a last niggling question:  The above website's crests occassionally appear somewhat different in other presentations, so would simplifying any of them be realistic? I like the idea of an accurate presentation, but also something I can manage with my decidely mediocre talents.

Thanks again!

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Monday, May 18, 2009 2:53 PM
My pleasure.
Heraldic blazonry was set up as a means for heralds to create a system of recognition in written form. As different artists or owners, interpreted that information they would use their own style. The rules of the word were specific but the artistic interpretation was as varied as the artists. Too, you would see badges or livery done for display in the field that may be different than that displayed at tournament or in some great hall or parade/panoply.
A Lord may have told his livery troops that all will display "azure a wolf's head cabossed argent" which translates in english to a blue shield with a white wolf's head looking at you. How each soldier decorated his shield or livery coat was up to him or the distaff that sewed or painted for him. He may also have had his quartermaster supply to his troops all the livery they would need and who ever he contracted to do it would have used what ever style. The same as if he sent a messenger to a herald in france from england, that herald in France may prepare banners, rolls in a tournament book, etc differently than the english herald would. It was easier to send the written word than to spend time drawing up all this heraldry. How they utilized it was up to them.

!5th c. Heraldry, especialy around Joan's time was in its hey day. Marshaling, the combination of coats of arms al la the duke of burgundy, was popular and there were some pretty elaborate depictions, but ultimately, looking at cassone chests, livery cabinets with heraldic depictions, some funerary brasses or other acoutrement you'll see a variety of styles and depictions of the same heraldry. Some very modern in their depiction others very primitive and crude. So no real set rules. You can be elaborate or as simple as you like since none of the fabric liveries used in the field on campaign have survived to be extant documentation. We only have the heraldic accounts from the period and they are usually in that written blazonry or depicted in manuscripts. Much of what people base their perception of period heraldry on is from what they see depicted in Osprey books, and other modern reference sources and these involve the modern artists depiction of the heraldry as he understands the blazon or interprets from historical documentation. Again the difference between modern eyes and aesthetic and period. If you ever get a chance to see Edward III's funerary achievements you'll see what I mean. These are extant pieces from the period and the execution looks very primitive from what is depicted by modern artists.

Something you can try and I've seen this done with some excellent results is going to a religious store and picking up a prayer card or something with the depiction of the Saints or other figures. These can be scanned and printed on decal material or printed on a paper and made into religious banners or some of the later period elaborate paintings you find on italian or genoese pavises. Perfect for that 15th c. european mind set of everything must be art.
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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