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1/24 4-4-0 Steam Locomotive

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  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
1/24 4-4-0 Steam Locomotive
Posted by DRUMS01 on Monday, July 24, 2023 2:27 PM

Moderators: We decided to place this build string here under "Miscellaneous". If this is not the correct spot, please move it where it should go (thanks).

While Jarrod and I normally normally describe a long and detailed build log on our modeling, this will not be the case for this kit.

We've had this kit in my stash for decades and finally have decided to build it. The model kit when finish will replicate "The General" steam locomotive that was used during the American Civil War. This specific locomotive has a very unique history during the war. 

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The General was a 4-4-0 steam locomotive made famous by the daring raid of Union loyalists early in the American Civil War that became known as the Great Locomotive Chase or Andrews' Raid. The locomotive was built during the 1850s for the Western & Atlantic Railroad and was still operating for that line through northern Georgia when James Andrews carried out his plan. 

Before the Civil War, most railways in the south, including the W&A, did not give their engines numbers. Rather, they were simply named, such as the General. When the railroad began numbering engines after the war, the General was the 39th engine to be acquired by the road, and was numbered accordingly. Locomotives came and went as years progressed, and by 1880, a renumbering was necessary. At this time, the General was given the number "3," being the third oldest engine that the railroad had at the time. The engine continues to carry this number today.

HISTORY

During the Civil War on April 12, 1862, The General was commandeered by Northerners led by James J. Andrews at Big Shanty (now Kennesaw, Georgia), and abandoned north of Ringgold, after being pursued by William Allen Fuller and the Texas. Low on water and wood, the General eventually lost steam pressure and speed, and slowed to a halt two miles north of Ringgold, where Andrews and his raiders abandoned the locomotive and tried to flee. In 1864, the Battle of Atlanta had forced the withdrawal of General John Bell Hood's forces from the city. Hood ordered the ordnance depot destroyed as he left Atlanta on September 1, 1864. To this end, the General was severely damaged by being run into boxcars of ammunition and the locomotive Missouri. This was done deliberately so as to render the engine unusable for the approaching Union forces. After the war ended, the General was repaired and continued service on the Western and Atlantic. In the 1870s, the General was completely rebuilt, it had received a new pilot, boiler, and other components. Most notably, its three dome configuration was reduced to two domes, and its Radley-Hunter style balloon stack was replaced with a diamond stack, as the engine had been converted to burn coal. Indeed, the rebuilt engine had little resemblance to its original form. Since then the engine has gone through further restorations and renuvations. On April 12, 1972, the Big Shanty Museum (later known as the Southern Museum of Civil War and Locomotive History) opened, and the General has remained on display there since.

MODEL KIT:

After some research, it appears our kit stems from the original release (according to the box art and Scalemates) from around 1982 as far as can tell. This mean that this kit is over 40 years old. The kit is molded in three main colors, red, black, and gray, with two sprue of plated brass and one of clear. The display base is a two part affair molded in brown. Each color of plastic was stored in a separate plastic bag with the clear in the black bad and the brown base as a separate item not bagged. 

Right away there were some very clear observations:

- every part of a moderate or large size was warped, some severe (both locomotive and tender)

- every part had deep ejection pin marks and large seam lines

- all of the detail that was provided is very soft (small blobs or dots for bolt heads, etc.)

- many other details were missing (bolts, nuts, hollow frame rails, etc.)

- nothing, and I mean nothing, was square or of 90 degree corners (everything was molded with an average of 80 degree corners, we assume because of the mold technology at the time)

- many parts exposed surfaces contained sink holes that required filling 

- the thickness or wall of many parts varied from one end to the other making it difficult at times to square them up

The first part of the instructions was to create the display base. The two part base interlocks with pins and ledge beneath it. The two main concerns with the base are the two very, very large and prominent mold / ejection marks between the rails and a large seam in the middle.

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Jarrod and I plan to add model railroad ballast between the rails to provide greater realism and to hide the filed down mold / ejection pin marks. In addition we are going to look at adding wood veneer to the display edge to further hide the center seam. Another issue with the base was the thick seam on the top and bottom of the tracks. Along with the seams, each piece of track had three prominent ejection pin marks which needed filling as they will be seen when displayed.

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The next part of instructions is to create the tender. For those still somewhat new to the train thing, the tender is the car behind the locomotive, Its purpose is to hold water as well as the wood or coal (depending on the period). Of course the wood or coal was used as a fuel source to burn and create the heat for the steam to power the locomotive. The base of the tender, by mold design, was strong and straight. Here it is with the bracing and bogie pivot locations already added. Note the nice wood detail beneath the tender. Jarrod and I will attempt to bring that out a little but most of it will not be seen unless inspected by a dental mirror.

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The thin side and inner walls of the tender were severely warped though. After several heat and press attempts the sides and rear were straight enough to add. Another problem found on the inner walls was that the two part enclosed ends were not long enough, creating a gap at the rear most area by almost 1/8 inch (yikes!). I guess the model designer wasn't overly concerned because the wood pieces were going to hide that issue. Jarrod and I chose to use thin sheet plastic to close the gap. Once again, none of the joint faces were flat or square on any part which caused seam issues during the assembly of the tender.  

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The front of the tender had crude locations to add a poorly molded valve knob and levers. After some looking Jarrod and I decided to scratch build our own valve stems and knobs from spares, here is the results. The tenders wheels and carriers warped or heavily seamed but with patience and car can square up and look the spindly part that they are.

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Completed tender, side view.

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A 4-4-0 locomotive is a type classification that uses the Whyte notation for steam locomotives by wheel arrangement and represents: four leading wheels on two axles, four powered and coupled driving wheels on two axles, and a lack of trailing wheels. To begin it's assembly we start with the main body (boiler, exhaust stack, etc.). The two main parts making up the locomotive body were warped the most of any kit parts. The heating and pressing method did not yield great results so Jarrod and I assembled the parts by sections while simultaneously holding them together until the CA cement cured. The result, did pull the parts straight, but the seams were terrible. Considerable time was taken to remove or fill seams while trying to retain the details. The front of the locomotive body fit very well but the rear (the part in the engine house) had a very poor and vague fit. 

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After the main body was assembled we moved on to the locomotive chassis. Lucky for us, the two (right and left) main chassis parts were not warped but once again, nothing was at a right angle or square. During assembly, much of it was just laid together until it was added to the locomotive body. Only after it was assembled to the rear wood box, near the front wheels, and the three cross members added did the chassis appear secure and properly oriented. It was during this process that we decided to properly detail the train engine with the necessary nuts and bolts. To do this we used Meng nuts and bolts of various sizes, available in most hobby stores or on-line. 

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Here are a few photos of the many braces, bolt heads, and nuts with threaded bolt ends that were added to give the General more realism. Every day we find more to add.

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While the instructions would have you build the kit, adding the various plated detail items, we decided to build the model in stages. The locomotive has been built to the point where it is ready for black paint (same for the tender). Using the same methods, we built the engine house to the point of painting. Once again the poor mold consistency and parts warpage made the engine house assembly and fine details alignment more difficult than it should've been. 

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Other bits and pieces were built and staged for painting to include the main headlight. During its assembly Jarrod and I research the period lights and added the gas light stem behind the glass and new bolt heads for the mount.

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The last item to be shown on this update was the shaping of the wood pile. Initially, Jarrod and I were going to replace the molded plastic wood pile with a real cut and split to scale wood pile. After some thought, we decided the accept the challenge to make the plastic parts look realistic. One of the first things we did was remove the plastic soup bowl look of the wood edge (all edges were smooth and even with the side of the tender) by shaping the end wood pieces to themselves. This will cause the observer to see the single part as many individual pieces simply because of the many different angles of the edges. We hope that more engraving and detail painting of each piece of wood will seal the deal.

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Thanks for checking in, following along, and for your constructive comments. 

Talk more soon,

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

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  • Member since
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Posted by MR TOM SCHRY on Monday, July 24, 2023 4:05 PM

This is going to be an epic build for you and Jarrod!  I've seen this same kit for sale and I've gone back and forth on buying it.  After seeing your progress on it I'm starting to think that I should get it.  I can't wait to see your next posting guys!

TJS

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 24, 2023 6:48 PM

Thats really coming along. All the extra detail really looks good.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, July 24, 2023 7:39 PM

Wow! Now that's a vintage kit! 

Not surprised you guys have problems with lots of injection pin holes and misfitting parts. I am surprised about the corners not being 90 degree angles though. 

Looking forward to seeing you two work your magic here! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    October 2021
Posted by PhoenixG on Monday, July 24, 2023 9:44 PM

Such care and meticulous attention to detail.  This build is going to be a beauty!

On the Bench:

Bandai 1/72 Defender Destroid

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Tuesday, July 25, 2023 5:37 PM
MR TOM SCHRY wrote the following post yesterday:

This is going to be an epic build for you and Jarrod!  I've seen this same kit for sale and I've gone back and forth on buying it.  After seeing your progress on it I'm starting to think that I should get it.  I can't wait to see your next posting guys!

REPLY: Not to sure about "epic" unless your referring to a bad way (smile). Back when I got this kit, in the early 80's, it was not very much. As a matter of fact I believe I got it in a department store for something like $29.00. If you purchase one, be prepared for a lot of filling, filing, and scratch work. All the same we are still really enjoying this build. It may be some time until the next update as we are not posting every little thing like we normally do, most likely after base painting is done. Thanks for the uplifting response though as Jarrod likes them very much.

Ben and Jarrod

 

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

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1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Tuesday, July 25, 2023 5:40 PM
GMorrison wrote the following post 22 hours ago:

Thats really coming along. All the extra detail really looks good.

 

Bill

 
REPLY: Thanks Bill and it's nice to see you posting to our builds. I hope your staying busy with your latest build as well. Jarrod and I are actually enjoying this one, especially the detail work. I think the detail, paint, and weathering is what's going to make this build work.
Check out the actual trains Engine House details:
Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

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  • Member since
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  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Tuesday, July 25, 2023 5:46 PM
Gamera wrote the following post 22 hours ago:

Wow! Now that's a vintage kit! 

Not surprised you guys have problems with lots of injection pin holes and misfitting parts. I am surprised about the corners not being 90 degree angles though. 

Looking forward to seeing you two work your magic here! 

REPLY: I didn't think it was that old either until I did some digging. Boy, you can really tell the difference in mold making from then to now. We hope it is not black magic but Glenda the Good Witch kind of positive magic (smile). Funny thing, with the challenges and adding of details, we are really enjoying this build. Hope to begin adding paint soon.

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Tuesday, July 25, 2023 5:57 PM
PhoenixG wrote the following post 20 hours ago:

Such care and meticulous attention to detail.  This build is going to be a beauty!

 
REPLY: Not sure if we call it meticulous, but we do like researching our builds to make them just a little more authentic. I can't remember when the last time I built something out of the box without something more being done. For me, that is an enjoyable part of our modeling.
We hope we build it good enough to deserve the "beauty" description. It seems that most modelers improve thier skills over time. That is until thier senses and motor skills deminish because of the senior years. I not so sure anymore exactly where I am in that curve, if you know what I mean. 
One thing is for sure, this model will make you appreciate the new tooled kits even more. On another note, it also brought me back to the basics of filing, sanding, fitting filling, etc. when compared to the current quality kits. So I guess that does make it refreshing in a wierd sort of way, appreciating the journey you could say.  
Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

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1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Saturday, July 29, 2023 2:58 PM

Hi!

 Waay back When, When the kit first came out! My son and I built her. He threw the molded wood panel away and went out in the yard and with his trusty Cub Scout knife cut all the real wood we needed. I in turn replaced all the questionable molded fittings and stuff as I was able.We even used real laboratory slide glass for windows!

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Sunday, July 30, 2023 7:58 PM

Hey Tankbuilder, thanks for following the build and providing your input. We agree with the plastic wood piile, but we also wanted to see if we could make it look realistic, just for the challenge. We may go the same route you did with real wood. Thanks for the suggestion of using microsope glass for the windows. We haven't gotten that far yet, but that may be a possible solution to the hazed thick plastic.

For everyone else following our build, Hi everybody! Not quite sure how we got everything done that we did this weekend, but the engine has paint on it. Before we get to that, we need to talk about some of the other corrections we've made prior to painting. 

Lets start with the, for lack of better words, the piston rods and guides. The first image below is how they looked when initially assembled. 

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As you can see, there was excessive play or gaps in the push rods slide /guide, so we added some sheet plastic to the guide plates so they would fill the void and appear more realistic. Along the way we also added some more nuts and bolt heads where appropriate, here is the results.

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In the instructions there was mention of adding a string for the scale rope to the bell but there wasn't any location on the engine house to attach or fit it through. After looking at the actual engine we decided to drill a hole in the front of the engine house, just above the left front window. In addition, we added a metal loop inside the roof of the house to suspend it from.

HOLE
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HANGER
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Jarrod and I mentioned in the previous update a need to fill openings on the inside of the locomotive chassis. Not completely sure why the model designer decided to leave the chassis open on the inside but from what we've seen on various images, all steam locomotive chassis were either boxed or solid. That was needed to handle the torque and pulling weight of the engine. Either way, Jarrod and I decided to close it up in the areas seen by looking through the other side of the engine. This is what we're talking about.

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And here it is with a view of the final rivets, bolts, etc. added prior to paint. 

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In an interesting study of the actual train engine, we noticed that the wooden walk way (molded in gray and attached to the sides of the engine) were painted black underneath and were painted gray on the tops, with an either silver or white stripe on the edge (?). Prior to painting the black we masked the upper section of the walkway. Here is how it looks with the initial or base coat on the locomotive and tender.

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We also got the red base coat on too (yippie!).

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Much still to do to get the locomotive close to the real thing as you can see here. When looking, check out the hanging rope in the engine house for the bell, the brass and cast pipe outside the front of the engine house, the pin stripe details on the wheels, the valves, gauges, along with the brass and copper work inside the engine house, etc. 

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Thanks for following along. Much more at next update, till then feel free to speak your thoughts regarding this build.

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

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  • Member since
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  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 4:01 PM

It's been a couple weeks since our last update (sorry). 

It appears that "life" happened again, more like trying to squeeze 30 hours in a 24 hour day every day. On any given week Jarrod has two physical and two occupational therapies. Then there is a speech therapy along with 7 hours Monday through Friday where Jarrod is experiencing life in an adult activity center which does countless things with him including stuff like bowling, movies, field trips (all of which I go with him) and more. 

For the past two months we've been also going to more ball games, band practice, etc. Just this last week we also power washed my 93 yr. old mom's house and during the cleaning one of her (senior) neighbors ask us to do hers too. That is the house, patio, outside entry and sidewalks, and driveway. After that we decided to power wash our driveway, sidewalks, and patio so we can seal them before fall. I hope to lay down the color enhancement and cement sealer this week. 

I'm sure many of you have similar situations to deal with but some how manage to get in modeling time. So, perhaps I need to improve my time management skills so we might squeeze in some scale modeling too.

So what have we done since the last update you ask? Well, after the base coats we started focusing on some of the detail painting. Here is an image of the display base with a couple washes on the railroad ties. You can also see the first step in adding rust to the rail tensioners. Still much more to do on the display but it's a start.

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Keeping with the wood vibe, we started painting the plastic wood pile for the tender with the hope of making it appear more realistic. To show some variation in the various wood/tree types we used several shades of brown, tan, wood, gray, and applied the initial wash after that. Still some more tinted washes and flat coat to follow. 

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Since working on the wood we will continue on more wood parts, here we have some first step shading on the cow catcher railroad tie on the front of the engine and shelf for the drive light (still more work to do).

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We're not done with the wood just yet. Here is the wood beneath the walkway; we were going for the worn look (showing the natural wood coming through the older weathered black paint).

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And the wood on top of the engines walk way has a very light wash as it is actually gray on the real thing. Yes, the wood in the engine house is that shade of green.

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Moving on to the metal components we have the base coat and dry brush on the tender wheels and carriers. 

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Funny thing here was that I thought it was OK in that dry brush scheme only to find that the bogies for the tender are painted gray, so the dry brush was for nothing (oh well). Since then we have painted them the same shade of gray to match the actual vehicle.

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We would be amiss if we didn't show the front and drive wheels painted and striped. Since this picture we've also added the bare metal contact points on the wheels were they match up with the rails.

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The brass is becoming a challenge because the gold chrome plating looks to fake. To add to that, many of the parts are molded in half which creates an ugly seam. Once the seam is fixed the gold plated finish is destroyed. To make the brass appear realistic we chose to strip and paint the brass with actual brass. Did you know that they make brass Molotow markers in brass?
Here is the top of the boiler with the engine whistle assembled and attached. 

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Here is a photo of a few items just sitting together to get a better idea where the build is at. Though nothing is fully assembled it at least gives us some feeling of progress.

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Jarrod and I mentioned something earlier about possibly adding figures to the build. We found some on the web for G scale train sets, made by Woodland Scenic Accents. Initially they were a little toy like and did not fit the kit perfectly. So after some modifications here they are so far. Note that they came hastily pre-painted. Jarrod and I will be completely repainting them more accurately before they go on the engine (especially the google eyes, yuck). 

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Everything is still a work in progress, but at least there is some progress. We really hope to show more after our driveway and patio/sidewalks are sealed, most likely this weekend. 

Thanks for looking, comments welcome, till next time.

Ben and Jarrod

PS: Jarrod liked helping with the washes on all the wood items as the visual enhancements are immediately rewarding for him.

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

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Posted by MR TOM SCHRY on Tuesday, August 15, 2023 4:26 PM

Progress is looking amazing!  Time is always the critical factor but the time you spend with Jarrod doing modeling and "chores" is priceless.

TJS

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Saturday, August 26, 2023 8:32 PM

Thanks Tom... If you recall, Jarrod and I said something earlier to the effect that we didn't mind the flash, rounded angles, dimples and ejection pin marks; well I think we need to resind that statement. Everything has the trifecta (flash, seams, and ejection pin marks). 


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So every part needs reworked before it can be used. I guess Jarrod and I will appreciate the build and its sense of accomplishment when we're done. We also mentioned that the gold plated items needed repainted after they were cleaned up. Now that we are getting to them the build may even slow more, only because we want to de-seam everything, add details where needed, and repaint. Were possible Jarrod and I are going to try and replace the plated lines with real brass. Here is just one of the parts after the seams have been removed.

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Speaking of detail, here is some of the stuff we are looking to enhance:

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- correct the painting on the back of the cabin to show red and black
- note the painted gray tender tray and hinges (kit shows black)
- note the scrapes and rust beneath the tender tray
- note the registration / service card on the right roof brace
- note the brass and painted red handles on the cabin (kit parts are plated)
- note the color of the step rod and steps on the tender (kit is gray, black, and plated)
- note the red center axle shaft on the drive wheels (kit is black)
- note the flag stanchions by the front drive light are wood with brass trim (kit is plated)
- note the pin striping on the drive wheels (none provided with kit)

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- note the plumbing colors by the cabin (kit parts plated)
- note the black control rod on the sand dome (kit part plated)
- note the various tones of black on the body of the locomotive (not all gloss black)
- note the black cylinder in front of the walk way (kit part plated)
- note the black control rod leading to the valve in front of the wheels (kit has none)
- note the black feed tube from the sand dome to the front of the wheels (kit is gray)
- note the various tones of brass (kit parts all plated)

I think you get the idea we are going for..... With the crudeness of the over 40 year old kit, it is taking more time than initially thought to get to where we want to be; but Jarrod and I will indeed get there. In addition to the details we also want to dirty her up a little to reflect her work on the railway and not as a museum piece (dust, small dirt, soot, etc). 

Since the instructions start with building the base, Jarrod and I thought we would like to finish it first too. 

Part 1: assembly of both parts and removal of the seam and very large ejection pin marks and sprue connections.
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Part 2: Painting the railroad ties various shades of dark brown, black, gray, and the connectors in a base coat of rust brown.
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Part 3: Unsuccessfully using diluted white craft glue to add the model railroad ballast between the ties. After removing the white glue and stone we tried again using Testers clear canopy modeling cement (it worked fantastic). After the scale limestone was dry we added the fine ballast earth tone as well as various dirt, grass, bushes, etc.
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Part 4: Aging the rust on the rails by stippling Vallejo European brown mud on the sides. You can see the difference here, before the washes.
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Part 5: Reworking the rail clamps with Dark, medium and light rust compounds. Adding the same treatment on the rails. Next was adding the bare metal contact edge on the inner part of the upper rail face. Finally adding the rails to the base.




The final step will be detailing the edges of the base to replicate finished wood and adding the name plate (WIP). So, we actually did get some stuff done.

Thanks for looking in on the build and please feel free to share your comments and observations. Hope to show another update soon.


Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    July 2015
Posted by MR TOM SCHRY on Sunday, August 27, 2023 8:16 PM

WOW!  Your progress is looking great.  That base looks incredible, very realistic.

TJS

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Sunday, September 3, 2023 11:21 PM

Thanks Tom, Jarrod liked laying the ballast and greenery. 

It's been a while since the last update so here goes....

1) DECALS: Jarrod and I were worried on how the 40 year old decals would work. We read somewhere that another company made replacement decals some time ago but we could not locate any. So before we dipped them in water we decided to scan them in to our PC just in case new ones would be needed. 

The first ones we tried were the rail lines initials on the tender. The first thing to report was that they did not break up, dissolve, and actually did come off the backing paper. The bad part was that they tried to shrink (wrinkle up) very bad. Jarrod and I were worried about their fragility but they allowed us to man handle them into place with many repeated blot and rub downs to remove the wrinkles. Once they were on we went for the striping on the tender and the decals performed much better. One thing that was a concern was the accurate decal placement of each partial stripe section as the instructions did not really provide any clarification. We managed to make the continuous stripes work and set it to the side to dry. Once dry, we looked at the results and found that many of the decals ghosted in several spots; not a big surprise for the age. After several attempts using solvaset the ghosting did not improve much. I guess Jarrod and I will need to work on mild weathering to reduce the ghosting effects. Here is the initial results (without the bogies).

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2) BRASS: We mentioned earlier about the need to replace the fake looking gold plating with either real brass rod or brass paint. From past experience with brass, I can tell you that while somewhat moldable it's rigidity also makes it susceptible for cracking or collapsing when using hollow tube to make 90 degree bends. So solid brass is the answer, right? Well not always I can say because once it gets too large, the clean bending becomes difficult. Our answer for this situation was to use solid brass rod for the small diameter to bend and replace the finer details (handrails, etc.) and a hollow core brass rod for the larger items. The key with the hollow brass rods was to insert either another smaller hollow brass rod inside it or a solid plastic rod inside (both as a tight fit). The internal rod would prevent the external rod from collapsing on the inside bend. 

The tools we used were a set of flat faced jewelers pliers and either a hobby vice or solid cylinder appropriate to the bending arc to make the smooth consistent curves. The cylinder or rod was clamped between two hemostats orienting them to face up from the bench to use as bending device. That worked well for single curves, but the compound curved brass presented more of a challenge. Compound curves were bent by hand using all of the resources and also my hands after measuring and marking the straight lengths and radius of each curve. And before you ask I will tell you that "yes" there were numerous failed attempts, even when using the kit parts as patterns. We can say that measuring and bending without cracking or scarring the brass is more difficult than it looks. And straight brass rod is only straight once, after it is bent it is what it is. Well, we hope we did not confuse you with the explanation, perhaps pictures will be better. 

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There are more than what's shown, but you get a good idea. Before Jarrod and I start assembling the beast we need to attempt our work inside the locomotives cabin with all the controls (not much provided with the kit). Currently we are still waiting for the cast and turned "G" scale valves to arrive. Until then we are going to work on our second pass at weathering the lower chassis as well as creating different tones on the upper surfaces ( various sheens, soot, very light rust or wear, etc.). 

We hope to have our next update sooner. Thanks to everyone for following the thread and for those modelers experienced in weathering steam locomotives please chime in. We also encourage anyones constructive criticisms towards improving the model build. 

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Wednesday, September 6, 2023 7:42 PM

Here's a little update while we wait for the valves. This is a partial showing of the scratch components inside the cabin. Here is a close up of the real locomotives cabin controls and gauges:

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The kit provides the large center gauge, terrible blobs of the two regulator floats that bracket the center gauge, and several lumps or blobs for a couple valves and the three bolt heads, and finally the center bar handle. So basically, everything else on the right and left of the cabin as well as the numerous copper lines and some kit parts all needed to be replaced and scratch built. Sometimes I wish I knew all the terminology of a steam train so I could properly tell you all what we're doing. I guess we will have to rely on the photos to provide most of the clarification. So, here is what we got done today (still a WIP):

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I ordered detailed valves in "G" scale from Ozark Miniatures on 8-16-23. The last information I got from them was a systemic response confirming the order on 8-18-23. The response was, "We're getting your order ready to be shipped. We will notify you when it has been sent". Since then nothing, even after calling and sending a text to the number they provide. Has anyone else here used them before? Should I be worried or start taking further actions? I say this because I cannot close the engines cab until I finish the details. That cannot be done until I get the items. The build cannot move forward much more until the cab is on the engine. 

While waiting, Jarrod and I did get the name plates for the sides of the engine and the number crest done for the front

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Perhaps it has to go to the "shelf" until they arrive. Hopefully more on the build soon....

Comments and critiques are always welcome.

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Saturday, September 16, 2023 1:59 AM

We actually have an update,..... progress!

For those who venture into a lot of scratch building you will already know the extra effort and time it takes to get something acceptable created or modified to add to a kit. For Jarrod and I, it's most likely worse than that. In fact it can take several attempts to get something we fell is acceptable. The first attempt turns out as a "lessons learned" template. The second attempt is normally very close or we possibly messed some of the scratch detailing up as part of the assembly. Often it is the third or even fourth attempt on some things that bring the result we're looking for. Even then, "beauty is often in the eye of the beer holder", or something like that. So even then it may look good to us, but it might not pass the critical observer or rivet counter,..... that's modeling. For Jarrod and I, as long as we are satisfied with it in our builds then that is the most important. 

OK, off the soap box and back to modeling. As you recall, we have been working on the details in the cabin which were severely incomplete and a lot of what was provided was lacking any creditability (detail and accuracy). We also provided some photos of out work-in-progress. As it turned out, the first final assembly of the control apparatus on the left side was too large. So the second attempt was created after fitting and measuring the other components. If you recall, the photo of the actual cabin controls shows how very crowded or dense the assemblies and fittings are. Our build and then rebuild process continued for many items in the cabin. Here is the photo we were working from:

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And here is pretty much all of the parts provided in the kit after some detail painting (except the valve handles which were after market items): 

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Here are the reworked scratch items beginning to get some color on them. 

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And here is where we are at the moment, with only a little painting and a better gauge decal forthcoming for the right white gauge:

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While it may not look like much, there is a lot of hours in what you see. and though it is not exact, we think it is a close copy. We found that the kit itself did not make the parts they provided to scale, many were smaller. So that restricted the amount of space we had to add everything. In the end Jarrod and I think it represents the image of cluttered cabin controls as best as we will get them. 

During the creative process for the cabin, we also got some time to mostly finish the tender (less the wood pile). This photo shows all of it assembled with the exception of the front grab handles (they have been added since the photo). You can also see some of the weathering to the front of the tender, where the hinged locomotive platform lays on it (wear and rust). It can also be seen on the real tender (second photo).

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Thanks for looking! Please let us know how we're doing. If you have thoughts on how to improve the build, please chime in as well. Take care, stay safe, love one another, and model something!

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: On my kitchen counter top somewhere in central North Carolina.
Posted by disastermaster on Saturday, September 16, 2023 1:54 PM

So far this is really awesome.

Just had to pull over to see this.

Whistling I've always had a crush on early locomotives and the "big boys" of WW2.

 https://i.imgur.com/LjRRaV1.png

 

 

 
  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Monday, September 18, 2023 6:18 PM

Thanks for checking in on our build "disastermaster".

Another little update, the details have been finished in the cabin, including the detail painting. Now we have finally added the whole cabin to the locomotive. Here is a peek into the cabin from the right rear. IF your wondering, the holes in the rear of the cabin above the entrance is where the rolled trap curtain will go. 

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Left Front, you can see the hole for the hand rail and the bell rope.

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Back; busy enough for us.

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Next Jarrod and I are working on scratch building more of the forward controls for the steam check valves(?)

What we're going for:
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Current work in progress:
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Now that the cabin is on the other parts will shortly follow... Stay tuned.

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Monday, September 18, 2023 9:18 PM

That detail is fantastic!  Really enjoying this build you two.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Thursday, September 21, 2023 7:27 PM

Thanks John, I'll pass that on to Jarrod. 

And now, another update.....

- During the build up phase for some unknown reason Jarrod and I overlooked the two braces beneath the front of the locomotive, just behind the wheels. Luck for us we were able to get them cleaned up, painted, added, and weathered to match the rest of the kit. 

- Since we missed those two braces, we decided to walk through the instructions to ensure we didn't miss something else. Along the way Jarrod and I identified more parts that were molded poorly (incorrect detail and both mold halves were off register causing one side of the part to be off center with the other side (essentially worthless). The first parts were the steam/water drains that mount beneath the front lower cylinders.

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Here is what was provided and our scratch build in progress. The one piece action lever and cross fittings were poorly molded, out of register, had lots of flash, seams, and ugly ejection pin marks. The long center bar connected the right and left sides beneath the locomotive body. That part was even in worse condition than the ones previously explained. 

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Here is the final interpretation of the part along with a correction to add the hinges on the service platform. The arm opposite the action levers will be the lever that is tied to a rod from the engine house (none of that was in the kit).

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And the replacement fittings have been built and added to the cylinders then painted.

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We are finally at a point to be able to add some of the assemblies that have been off to the side for some time. In a nutshell, Jarrod and I have been able to add the cow catcher front assembly, the front wheel assembly, some of the scratchbuilt brass work on the sides, and the pushrod and guide assembly to each side. Before you ask, "yes" the brass lines on the sides of the locomotive are suppose to be at that angle. Other items include the scratchbuilt lubrication points above the cylinder casing. I hope to have some of the terminology correct (or the build finished, smile). I think it may be better to show photos of the progress instead:

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Well, that's it for today. Jarrod and I, along with the fellas say farewell for now.

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As always, thanks for looking, and build something! Comments encouraged, good, bad, or indifferent.

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Sunday, September 24, 2023 3:19 PM

UPDATE: I was asked by a fellow modeler on another site about the push bar on the front of the cow catcher. I started looking specifically and found that originally it had a completely different style of cow catcher. I found a few photos that show it without one. BUT, I also found some pictures with a push bar as seen below.


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With this information Jarrod and I created a new push bar with the flat end and hole in it for the old style connector. Here is the replacement push bar for the front of the cow catcher. 


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And here it is attached along with some scratches, chips and light oxidation (rust), looking at the photos I may tone it down just a bit (or not). I also corrected the black trim on the bottom edge of the catcher.

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While posting that rework, here is some other stuff Jarrod and I accomplished yesterday. 

- Most of the brass plumbing added. This is actual brass which replaced the majority of the plastic work where possible. We still need to weather and detail paint some of it. 

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- Finished assembly of the steam/water pressure relief valves and actuator bar. It will still need the action arm (wire) from the cab to the upper lever on the bar as well as detail paint too.

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Once again, thanks for looking, and remember that Jarrod and I always encourage and appreciate your reviews and comments.

Till next update!

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Tuesday, September 26, 2023 1:26 AM

Our next update involves the drive wheels. The kits parts are molded in red and are a single piece for each wheel. After cleaning the flash, ejection pin marks, and sink holes, we sprayed them with Testor's RED. I believe we already shown them previously with the white edge trim (below).

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Next we used a permanent silver marker on the contact face of the wheel where it meets the track. To attempt to add more realism Jarrod and I then added some wear marks, dirt and grime in the recesses, and even some slight edge chipping and mild rust on the interior face of the wheel. It may sound like a lot, but we didn't want to make it appear severely worn or abused, just used or "in service". 

The next step was to find a way to add the pin striping on each spoke and wheel weight as on the actual train.

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After some searching we were able to find the appropriate pinstripe decals from a model train source. Several hours later of measuring, cutting, and placement, here is what we came up with to replicate them (up to 20 decals per wheel).

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Jarrod managed to maintain his interest for one wheel, which is pretty good for him concerning the tedious work. After the first wheel he wanted to go into his favorite recliner to watch a music (concert) videos on his I-Pad. I suppose if I had the same choice of watching somebody do this or watching concerts I would've done the same.  :violin: 

We're letting them fully dry and will seal them before moving on. So thats about it for now, more updates tomorrow I believe. Thank you all for viewing and don't be afraid to post your observations , critiques, and comments. 

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, September 26, 2023 8:06 PM

Oh wow that's nice! You and Jarrod are making some serious progress there- won't be long till she's done! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Monday, October 2, 2023 11:52 PM

Thanks Gamera, and thanks for sticking with us through this build. 

Those pin stripes became an issue when adding the drive wheels to the loco though. The decals were very old (around 10-13 years) and after setting and sealing them several of the stripes did not want to stay on the wheels. So we did a second attempt, actually fix those bad ones by adding a seal of thinned white glue to seal them on and replaced others that were not repairable. 

When adding the drive wheels I accidentally fixed the wrong wheels to the wrong axles (think single versus dual wheel weights). Because of the keyed plastic axle, they did not want to come off, even with de-bonder. When trying the de-bonder we almost had a fatal error of it nearly spilling out to finished paint areas, but we just caught it in time. The solution was to cut and remove the plastic axles under the chassis which let us take the wheels and partial axle out the sides. Next we drilled out the axle tips from the wheels which was OK anyway as they had gaps and stuck out the end of the wheels inconsistently. Next we used hollow and solid brass rod to make better axles then what they provided anyway. This also allowed us to create a tight and near flush fit in the center of each wheel. Photos of the actual loco show very little tell of any center axle at all under the paint. So in this case, the error fixed the poor axle facing in the center of the wheels. 

ACTUAL:
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MODEL: (minor touch-ups still needed)
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Next was adding the main and slide rods (bars) to each wheel and then to the crosshead / cylinder assembly. We immediately found that even after a light paint, the holes in the slide rods had such a tight tolerance with the retaining pin that they would no longer fit. So after some mild filing they fit fine, but the front end of the slide rod that snaps to the crosshead took a considerable amount of force to snap into place on each side. So much so that we thought we were going to break something. So now, finally after the drive wheels, fenders, and drive rods were added it was starting to look like a proper locomotive. Then we noticed that when fixing the drive rods holes for the pins, we accidentally put the front and rear drive bars on in the wrong sequence (the front slide rod was errantly attached in the outside position). We thought for a minute to just leave them that way because trying to remove them could easily destroy the pin and damage the rods. Then we noticed how off skew the slide rods were in relationship to the crosshead guides that we had not choice, they had to come loose and be placed in the proper sequence (the front bar on first then the rear bar on over it). To do this we had to sheer off the front retaining pin heads. Once the bars were corrected, Jarrod and I punched out two new pin heads from sheet plastic. Once they were added and painted it was impossible to tell anything was ever wrong to begin with. Still it was far more work than the wheels and drive bars should've been (all of the problems were self imposed by my errors in the build).

With most of the brass on and now the wheels, the steam locomotive will soon be coming to an end. But first we also had to correct the details on the right and left Valve Rods. The single kit part was molded to represent all the components of the valve rods; the arm, push bar, knuckle, and various brass mating parts that attach to the valve chest. The part as molded was missing numerous bolts, nuts, knuckle detail, etc. 

Here is how is should've looked:

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This was the kit part:



Taking a step backwards, before I could add the corrected valve rods, we had to finish the connections to the drain *** connecting rod, as its pull rod goes beneath the right valve rod and on to the cab. This if you recall was the bar shown below:

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The actuating lever is tied to a pull bar in the cab by a thin rod. Considering the lever and rod were never a part of the kit we had to create them and drill holes in the cab and running board. To create the thin rod we used micro thin silver solder. Once painted it was fed from the cab, through the new hole in the running board, behind the reverse valve actuating bar and in front of the water supply line, then on to the lever itself. 

With that now done we added the valve rods. Up next, Jarrod and I wanted to add additional detail to the water valves. In the photo below you can see the actuation rods from the cab to a valve pin. This is our next challenge.

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To create this assembly we started by drilling the water valve and adding a small brass rod to replicate the valve pin. The fittings on the end are piece parts from old jewelry. Considering how well the solder worked last time and that the rods are the same diameter, we used the solder again. The same technique was used to drill the various holes. Once painted and glued to the valve pin we fed the solder (rod) through and into the cab. a small spot of glue was place on the solder where it connects through the cab and tension was held until cured then trimmed. 

We are still looking for information on the following hose assembly which was not part of the kit. Specifically, where does it go from there?

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Other items such as the sand box lever, sand pipes, hand rails, bell assembly, headlamp assembly including the flag staffs and hand rail, and steps were then added. We still need to finish the drive wheel axle faces, work on the tenders wood pile a little more, finish the sand and steam domes, pop-off valves and whistle, attach the tender and locomotive to each other and the base, add the step plate between the locomotive and tender, detail and add the water lines from the tender to the engine, add the figures and various tools, and finalize the weathering. 

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With that said, here is a sneak peek at how part of it looks at the moment:

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This is most likely the last update before the final reveal (we hope). Suggestions, comments, all welcome. 

Ben and Jarrod

"Everyones the normal until you get to know them" (Unknown)

LAST COMPLETED:

1/35 Churchill Mk IV AVRE with bridge - DONE

NEXT PROJECT:

1/35 CH-54A Tarhe Helicopter

 

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