us solders with enemy firearms

HeavyArty wrote:

plymonkey wrote: On a current note, apparently, an M-4 was developed and issued to special ops in Afgahnistan in '02 which fired Russian 7.62x39 rounds and used AK47 magazines. They called it the SR-47 and the idea was to allow a weapon which was familiar to our soldiers, but used the Russian ammo and magazines which SF troops deep in enemy territory would find readily available, and would also save them from leaving behind US casings, the presence of which could compromise the mission.   Haven't heard about that, but if it did occur, it was probably rechambered for 5.45x39 and would use AK-74 magazines.  Otherwise, it would need a new receiver and barrel, pretty much a totally new weapon to fire 7.62 ammo.  A standard M4 uses 5.56x45  NATO rounds.  It wouldn't be too hard to rechamber it for the shorter Russian rounds as used by the AK-74.

From what I've read about it, it was the 7.62x39 AK47 round (hence the name SR-47), which is more prevailant in Afgahnistan. It seems that a 5.45mm version was on the table, to be called SR-74, but I'm not sure if that ever came to fruition.

It was retooled with a completely new, longer upper and lower, but the "muscle memory" points of the M16 are identical.

 Here's a link  http://www.quarterbore.com/kac/sr47.html
A google search on SR-47 turns up a few others, including a blurb about it on wikipedia.

well you gotta figure the Sten Gun being the same caliber as the MP-40 (9mm)

There's a set of German Falschirmjager by dragon, standing on a tank, with one of them holding a british (?) sten gun. As other threads have said, if the Germans did it then surely  the Allies would have done as well. In war anything can happen. It would certainly make for an interesting  and diferent dio.

Rich

well I just got ahold of Dragon's US Anti Tank team WWII and it had at least 3 sprues of weapons 2 sprues of US weapons and one of German weapons. now there is alot of possibilities there.

Homer your'e right about Band of Brothers they do show the response in the field to many losses of the notorius "Leg Bags" in which usually carried their main weapon. the bags were often ripped off when the paratrooper jumped into the aircraft's slipstream. from what i have seen in documentaries todays paratroops jump with all their gear attached to their bodies and jist before landing drop some in a pack attached to their harness by a cord Isn't the Military Channel soooo usefull

In Band of Brothers you can see in the beginning and part of the series that some soldiers has German weapons. It's TV, I know, but why wouldn't somebody pick up an enemy weapon? If it was good, I'll grab one.

In Vietnam it was popular to grab NVA backpacks since they were better then the US model.

Heavyarty,

You are right.  Original AR-10  designed by Eugene Stoner (and still is manufactured by Armalite) is chambered in .308 Winchester/ 7.62mm Nato (7.62X51).  Later on, they changed to .223 Remingon/5.56mm Nato and desingated AR-15 / M16.
There also is one that takes 7.62X39 (russian) as well.  I don't own it, but has seen them floating around.  Here is the link for it.
http://www.gunblast.com/Doublestar-762x39.htm and http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976532802.htm
Prior to Clinton's 94 Assault weapon ban, it was readily available, manufactured by Olympic Arms, Armalite/Eagle and Colt.  They didn't call it AR-10, but if I remember correctly, they referred it just as AR-15 chambered for 7.62X39 (and each manufacturer probably had different designations).  Once in a while, I see them advertised in Shotgun News, but I haven't really had any need for it.  They also sell conversion kit, which is just an upper receiver barreled for 7.62x39.  Cost of it is about $450 +.  You can get a complete AK-47 at around $350. There also was some reliability issue with AR's that were chambered for 7.62x39mm, so there really was no advantage for owning AR in that caliber. 
This is why I love Ar-15 over other rifles.  You can get conversion kits to change to other calibers such as 6.5mm, .50, 9mm, .45ACP, 22LR and so on and on. 
Sometimes, I want it all, but wife won't allow it, so for now I only have in .223Remingon/5.56mm Nato and .22LR. 

m1garand wrote:

There is commercial version of M16/M4 (which is AR15 and CAR15) chambered in 7.62X39, but will not accept Ak47 magazine.  M16's magazine release is on a side of the mag well and AK47's magazine release is on a front of the trigger guard, so it may not be compatible with each other.  However, M16's that are specifically chamberred for 7.62X39mm will have its own specific magazine for it.  Colt manufactured their rifles in this caliber as well as others.  Unfortunately, I've been out of the military scene for a quite some time and I personally have not seen it being used in the service.  However, I would not be surprised if such thing was used by the SPECOPS.

The civilain 7.62mm version is the original AR-10.  It was later developed into the M-16 when the military switched from 7.62mm to 5.56mm.  7.62mm AR-10 is still in production and looks just like an M16, but has a larger receiver and magazine.  Commercial AR15 and CAR15 are both 5.56mm.

AR-10 info.

To take this topic more off course, I've got friends that have spent time training Iraqi forces that say they had a veritable armory all their own.  M-16A2s & A4s, M4s they "borrowed" from the Army, AK-47s & 74s, Dragunov sniper rifles and shotguns, whatever they could find that they wanted/liked to shoot, they could use. 

So, it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility for it to have happened like that in the past.  I'm sure it was frowned upon, but in time of war, you use what you have and is reliable.

There is commercial version of M16/M4 (which is AR15 and CAR15) chambered in 7.62X39, but will not accept Ak47 magazine.  M16's magazine release is on a side of the mag well and AK47's magazine release is on a front of the trigger guard, so it may not be compatible with each other.  However, M16's that are specifically chamberred for 7.62X39mm will have its own specific magazine for it.  Colt manufactured their rifles in this caliber as well as others.  Unfortunately, I've been out of the military scene for a quite some time and I personally have not seen it being used in the service.  However, I would not be surprised if such thing was used by the SPECOPS.

plymonkey wrote:

On a current note, apparently, an M-4 was developed and issued to special ops in Afgahnistan in '02 which fired Russian 7.62x39 rounds and used AK47 magazines. They called it the SR-47 and the idea was to allow a weapon which was familiar to our soldiers, but used the Russian ammo and magazines which SF troops deep in enemy territory would find readily available, and would also save them from leaving behind US casings, the presence of which could compromise the mission.

 

Haven't heard about that, but if it did occur, it was probably rechambered for 5.45x39 and would use AK-74 magazines.  Otherwise, it would need a new receiver and barrel, pretty much a totally new weapon to fire 7.62 ammo.  A standard M4 uses 5.56x45  NATO rounds.  It wouldn't be too hard to rechamber it for the shorter Russian rounds as used by the AK-74.

I've got no pictoral reference showing US troops in WWII with enemy weapons as their regular weapon, nor have I seen any footage, but it did occurr. The Germans made more use of captured weapons than we did at that time, I believe.

On a current note, apparently, an M-4 was developed and issued to special ops in Afgahnistan in '02 which fired Russian 7.62x39 rounds and used AK47 magazines. They called it the SR-47 and the idea was to allow a weapon which was familiar to our soldiers, but used the Russian ammo and magazines which SF troops deep in enemy territory would find readily available, and would also save them from leaving behind US casings, the presence of which could compromise the mission.

Seems to me, that if behind enemy lines or making deep penetration of enemy lines, once you run out of your own ammo, the next best thing is to grab the enemy's. He won't be needing it and as long as there are enemy troops, there is ammo...

The other thing is that those oppositon forces that hear their own guns can't tell how many or how close the other side is.

on the history channal one g.i. said he nabbed an mp40 of a german and used it till the end of the war and still has it!he was in the u.s. army and this was before the bulge.

I know of numerous instances in WWII where US soldiers used whatever weapons they could find in a pinch. Sgt Audie Murphy used a captured german MG42 to take out a pair of german machinegun nests after running dry on his M1 carbine, and there are numerous accounts of US paratroopers having lost their gear in the normandy invasion grabbing whatever they could find to fight back. and similar accounts of US troops at Bastogne running out of ammo and retreving weapons from the enemy dead I hope this helps BTW on the other end of things the germans LOVED the M1 carbine and gladly used them whenever they could get their hands on them

In Vietnam a lot of us preferred the AK-47 over the M-16.  I had three of them just for those occassions that a 2nd Lt. would take away the one I was carrying ... I always had a back-up in the hootch.  I see in some news photos that GIs in Iraq and Afghanistan often do the same thing, but it's clear that the MP5 is a very popular item, too.

Doesn't answer your question, but it does speak to the American GI's attitudes, which are often the same no matter what war.