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What SF Topics CAN’T be Modeled?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Saturday, July 30, 2011 6:34 PM

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
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  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Saturday, July 30, 2011 1:28 AM

YOU CANT

If its invisible its invisible.  Unless your attaching something to it, like a laser hitting it, or something interacting with it, there is no point putting it in the diorama or even considering it as a subject.

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:38 AM

smeagol the vile

Well if you want to model INVISIBLE things I can help you there.  my house is FULL of them.  I have full scale models of all the space ships from starwars and stargate in 1/1 scale modeled in my yard, but there all invisible

Yes, and you still haven’t shared your secrets of building invisible things!

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
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  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Friday, July 29, 2011 11:43 PM

TomZ2

 

 Kugai:

 

 TomZ2:

Now… as we have wandered into this channel… has anyone got any ideas as to model an invisible (no, smeagol, not clear, invisible) spaceship?

Again, maybe clear resin?

Have the subject done in another material, and use the resin to make a negative mold around it, but in sections so that the subject can be removed before closing up the resin.  

Ship-shaped bubble of air suspended in clear resin.   Technically "invisible", right?Stick out tongue

 

 

No, as I told smeagol, not clear, invisible!  Something BETTER than this:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/JasonCzeskleba/2011-04-18_183453_invisible-tape_300.jpg

If I wanted a simple, clear vehicle, I could manage something akin to this:

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/BrianHague/2011-04-18_175128_ww595b.jpg

(BTW, Wonder Woman’s Robot Plane wasn’t originally invisible but transparent.)  But as I quoted, “There was a rim of light, the open door of what was obviously some sort of shaft or chute; but beyond it, the stars were not obscured and there was no trace of any hull.”  Now, how to build it?

 

I repeat

 

"

Well if you want to model INVISIBLE things I can help you there.  my house is FULL of them.  I have full scale models of all the space ships from starwars and stargate in 1/1 scale modeled in my yard, but there all invisible

"

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Friday, July 29, 2011 9:41 PM

I thought that the ship-shaped pocket of air being invisible would count for something.  It would be the display holding it that's "clear."

Oh well.  I tried.

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

  • Member since
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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Friday, July 29, 2011 9:27 PM

Kugai
 TomZ2:

Now… as we have wandered into this channel… has anyone got any ideas as to model an invisible (no, smeagol, not clear, invisible) spaceship?

Again, maybe clear resin?

Have the subject done in another material, and use the resin to make a negative mold around it, but in sections so that the subject can be removed before closing up the resin.  

Ship-shaped bubble of air suspended in clear resin.   Technically "invisible", right?Stick out tongue

No, as I told smeagol, not clear, invisible!  Something BETTER than this:

If I wanted a simple, clear vehicle, I could manage something akin to this:

(BTW, Wonder Woman’s Robot Plane wasn’t originally invisible but transparent.)  But as I quoted, “There was a rim of light, the open door of what was obviously some sort of shaft or chute; but beyond it, the stars were not obscured and there was no trace of any hull.”  Now, how to build it?

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
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  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:23 PM

Well if you want to model INVISIBLE things I can help you there.  my house is FULL of them.  I have full scale models of all the space ships from starwars and stargate in 1/1 scale modeled in my yard, but there all invisible

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:05 PM

TomZ2


Now… as we have wandered into this channel… has anyone got any ideas as to model an invisible (no, smeagol, not clear, invisible) spaceship?

Again, maybe clear resin?

Have the subject done in another material, and use the resin to make a negative mold around it, but in sections so that the subject can be removed before closing up the resin.  

Ship-shaped bubble of air suspended in clear resin.   Technically "invisible", right?Stick out tongue

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

  • Member since
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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:10 PM

Here’s a typical scene of an invisible spaceship:

David Grinnell

    The moment that Zachary Halleck’s eye were caught by the strange light, he remembered all that he had forgotten.  He knew that the spaceship had arrived, that he was being picked up for his mission. He felt no astonishment as his feet left the ground, felt only that it was fortunate the arrival was timed so well.

    As it drew him up into the night sky, he strained his eyes to see the shape of the vessel; but he saw nothing.  There was a rim of light, the open door of what was obviously some sort of shaft or chute; but beyond it, the stars were not obscured and there was no trace of any hull.  Then he reached it, was sucked inside, and a door closed behind him.

Across Time (AKA The Ultimate Spaceship)

(An old, old friend of mine, the Master Cruiser 12-12-12, power rating One, of the Fifth Galactic Federation, the LAST spaceship built by the Human Race.  Across Time is a roaring space opera, written by David Grinnell (a pseudonym of the prolific Donald A. Wollheim), 1957.

Now… as we have wandered into this channel… has anyone got any ideas as to model an invisible (no, smeagol, not clear, invisible) spaceship?

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
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  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:27 PM

Actually I had a thought about invisibility and discussed it on here a while ago.  I had been planning, but scrapped, a fallout 3 diorama consisting of one of those Chinese stealth suits in the game. Basically anything in SF that wants to keep in realism that does cloak that actually is invisible to the naked eye bends the light somehow, and leaves a trace, a blurred edges kind of look, so here is what I proposed.  Simply enough, for figures you get the figure, or hack it, or what not, for vehicles you build the vehicle up in modular parts.  You get a vacuform machine and you re-cast the figure or vehicle in CLEAR PLASTIC.  That way it is technically invisible while still being seen if you... well look for it.

 

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  • From: Chapel Hill, NC
Posted by Leonidas on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:36 AM

I'd take a 1/350 scale of the Enterprise E.

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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:51 PM

OctaneOrange

i guess the hardest would be the cloaked bird of prey. (at least something that's not a display stand with NOTHING on it)

 

 

 TD4438:

 

A realistic Death Star would be difficult in any scale.

 

 

wasnt' the movie DS a model?

The prohibition against invisibility was stated in the original post. (Sort of like the "wizard's duel" from "The Sword in the Stone".)

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

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  • From: Third rock from the sun.
Posted by Woody on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:06 PM

Yes it was a practical model in the good ole pre CGI days. A physical models from a more civilized time, not as clumsy or random as CGI.


" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones
  • Member since
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  • From: Australia
Posted by OctaneOrange on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:42 PM

i guess the hardest would be the cloaked bird of prey. (at least something that's not a display stand with NOTHING on it)

 

TD4438

A realistic Death Star would be difficult in any scale.

wasnt' the movie DS a model?

  • Member since
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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Monday, July 18, 2011 11:38 PM

I have a Death Star, about 2" in diameter, no big deal. It just is a [dingywongo] Christmas ornament! Now if you want the impossible, try Death Star II (AKA “The Tarkin”). How would you how to keep the unfinished elements “floating”?


Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
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  • From: Third rock from the sun.
Posted by Woody on Monday, July 18, 2011 5:57 PM

The Death Star would be a model of a model. Big Smile


" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones
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Posted by TD4438 on Sunday, July 17, 2011 5:48 PM

A realistic Death Star would be difficult in any scale.

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  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:40 AM

Wow, I never thougt of those ideas how to model such cosmic phenomena. If I look at a hubble picture I never think "yeah, I could model that!" (instead of "ahhh, pretty!"

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  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:12 AM

Borg R3-MC0

In some Star Trek episodes cosmic phenomenons play a role, like getting stuck in some sort of nebula. And Deep Space Nine revolves around the wormhole.
I think that you can not model these non-tangible things. That is, I do not have a clue how to model a nebula or a wormhole... it is all lights and mist.

I just had an idea with this one.

For some reason, I just thought of something that was in toy stores about 15 years ago.  It had Star Wars ships and small neon-colored plastic pins that you would put in a container that looked like a fish tank about 6 inches high, 10 inches wide, and 2 inches "deep" with a starfield printed on cardboard for a background.

The way you got the ships and pins ( which were to be the "lasers" ) to stay in place was to take the mix that was included to make a clear gel, use tweezers to place the objects in the stuff, and remove any bubbles with a pipette.

As far as making a nebula or the accretion disk for a black hole ( what would the "swirly" be called for DS9's wormhole, since it's not the same thing? ), it would be expensive and heavy to make anything of any significant size, but maybe someone could take clear resin to do something similar?  Mix the stuff, put it in a mold, and use pins and pipettes to place paint or some kind of color in the mix, stir and move it in the resin before it cures with rods or whatever to make the "clouds", then let cure and polish the sides to have a full, 3D nebula "model" that could be seen from any angle.

It might not be able to get the precision results needed to "model" a particular real nebula from Hubble's pictures, but it's an idea.

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

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  • From: Washington, DC
Posted by TomZ2 on Saturday, July 16, 2011 2:18 PM

Heres one I shouldve included in the pot: Any WWII (NOT Cold War) Soviet war machine (whether it rolls, flies, or crawls) with 100% accurate Protective Green 4BO color with iron-clad proof of authentication. Its Science Friction! Like trying painting a Cheshire cat! Fantasy! Madness!

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

  • Member since
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  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:07 AM

I'm pretty sure the wormholes work of the theories of black holes and it isn't lights and mist, if thats the case, its the remnants of anything near it, planets, stars, asteroids, and the like.

But uh... You would be best suited if you wanted to, to use paper machet to sculpt a free standing sculpture of a wormhole in three dimensions for the size you want, then use a vacuform machine to re-create it in clear plastic. 

You build the dio in a shadow box and give the whole clear wormhole a smoke or clear black coat.  From there you just use your imagination to detail it, leave open areas of black as well

 

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  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Saturday, July 16, 2011 4:11 AM

In some Star Trek episodes cosmic phenomenons play a role, like getting stuck in some sort of nebula. And Deep Space Nine revolves around the wormhole.
I think that you can not model these non-tangible things. That is, I do not have a clue how to model a nebula or a wormhole... it is all lights and mist.

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:11 AM

A TARDIS in it's natural state would be impossible since it is never shown.

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Saturday, July 16, 2011 12:36 AM

Well, the original Star Trek had some things that might be difficult...

The "Lights of Zetar", a Medusan alien outside of its travelling case, what would be presumably the natural form of the Metrons ( the image on the screen ) in "Arena"...

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

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  • From: Washington, DC
What SF Topics CAN’T be Modeled?
Posted by TomZ2 on Friday, July 15, 2011 11:41 PM

Science Fiction is the playground of the mind. “There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man’s fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination.” Yeah, yeah, and all that.

But what SF topics CANT be modeled?

Now its obvious that some things are just invisible, and some things are too large (Solarus? paint a ping-pong ball blue and youve got your 1:500,000,000 model right there — lots of luck on detailing it) or too small (The Girl in the Golden Atom?), what SF topic would you like try your hand (no limit on costthis is a thought experiment and BS is cheap) to fabricate that you know, know absolutely positively, just cant built as a scale model?

Occasional factual, grammatical, or spelling variations are inherent to this thesis and should not be considered as defects, as they enhance the individuality and character of this document.

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