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Yoda's encounter on Dagobah

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  • Member since
    June 2012
Posted by Star Wars Steve on Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:23 PM

Excellent advice for a new modeller to use. Considering your new to this you did a good job with this kit. It's like the Speederbike Scout Trooper, hellish seams to fix and never quite looks the business after it's done LOL. I never built this kit, but I do have it in storage in the stash for building at a later date.

I really do like this one though, one of the more imaginative kits produced in the range. The R2 is the most challenging part in my opinion..

  • Member since
    October 2010
Posted by Warmuncher on Friday, February 3, 2012 2:00 PM

Redruum,

I cannot speak to brush painting large surfaces because I gave up on that when I purchased my airbrush.  You could say that the driving force behind my investment in an airbrush was due to the cruddy job I was doing with my brush.  However to address your point about paint streaking and not painting I would suggest a few  things:

1) Thin your paints.  They may be going on too thick.

2) Apply your paint in multiple coats and use multiple brushing angles between coats.  Essentially, the thinner coats will still cause streaking but they streaks will be thinner.  By applying multiple thin coats over the streaks you will eventually come to a smoother looking finish.  To use mathmatics as an example: paint the first coat along the X axis and then your second along the Y axis and your third to an angle of both X and Y.  I typically use this technique for large areas where the airbrush is not practicle to use.

3) always always always let your parts in warm soapy water using a non-perfum, clear dish washing detergent.  And I don't mean the stuff you use in your dishwasher.  I usually let me parts sit a few hours to overnight.  Then rinse off thoroughly.  Some modelers will even use an old toothbrush to scrub the parts after thier bath.  Finally, there is a product you can buy at any automotive stor that is a pre-primer for plastic.  I think they call it Plastic Preparer or  Surface Conditioner or something like that.  This stuff will etch the crap out of your plastic and make an excellent foundation for your primer coat.  However, never ever ever ever ever ever ever use this stuff on clear parts. 

Outside of what everyone else has said I will offer this up:

When painting figurines some good techniques are washes and dry brushing.  A wash is essentially thinned paint or ink diluted with a bit of Dish Soap or Future Floor Polish.  Also, some companies sell pre-mixed washes.  And dry brushing is when you take a clean, dry, flat brush, dip it in your paint, and then rub as much of it as you can off the bristles with a paper towel.  Then you lightly brush the details of your model. 

So what are you achieveing here.  Well, let's look at the process using Yoda's cloak.  (I am going generalize colors here.  Experiment to find what you like).

1) Paint the cloak a light tan.  This will be the base color of the cloak.

2) use an eye dropper if you can.  If you use Future you can do a 50/50 mix of Future to Water.  To make math easy we will say 10 drops water and 10 drops Future.  Then if ink, add 2 to 4 drops inks.  If paint then just put some on your mixing stick and then mix it up in the mixture until you achieve a consistency of skim milk.  If too watery then just add more paint. 

2a) if you are using just water then mix your water and paint together until you get the desired consistency and then add a drop of Dish Detergent.  Please note that I think this technique is not as effective as the one above.

3) Take a flat bristled brush and slop the wash over the cloak.  you will notice that the wash sinks into the recesses of the cloak.  Wipe the brush off and then use the brush to soak up any pools that form on the surface of your subject.  Otherwise you will end up with mess. 

4) Let dry completely.  maybe an hour or two depending on how much you used.  It is very important that this is not wet for the next stage.

5) Finally, take a lighter color tan or very light brown, and dry brush the cloak as described above. 

That is the basic technique and even this will bring some really live to your models.  If you want to get fancy then can seal the cloak with a gloss coat before the wash.  You can even use multiple washes to help build up shading details.  For dry brushing you can use different shades of colors for different parts of the cloak accent different parts of the cloak and create even more shading and highlighting opportunties. 

Finally, you will want to spray a layer or two of dull coat on the model.  The "Magic Wash" I described above will make the cloak very shiny. 

I hope that helps and good luck with your next model.

You can find me on Photobucket under Warmuncher

Proud Member of Southern Maine Scale Modelers, IPMS

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: CLEVELAND OHIO
Posted by treetopper on Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:31 PM

HI i am also new to models also and like you i was afraid of buying a airbrush. but i have to tell you it was the best thing i have done. i started by using water and am slowly getting use to acrylic paint. you cant beat the finish they produce BEST OF LUCK to you

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 7:56 AM

smeagol the vile

 Gamera:

Redruum:

The guys have some excellent advice here. But if I may add if you're going to hand brush get some good quality brushes. They don't have to be the really expensive ones but grab a small pack of ones made for artists not the cheap white plastic Testor's ones or the super cheap ones made for kids.  And make sure to wash them out good with a clean water and a little soap if using acrylics and thinner if using enamels. If cleaned properly they'll last for a year or more.

Cliff

 

 

I went to Michaels/AC Moore and they had like... packs of REALLY NICE brushes on sale, like... 8 in a pack or something, all different sized, for like 3$.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Those are the only brushes I use anymore. I've found that for me they work just as well as the really expensive artist brushes. Good deal there Smeagol.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 9:14 PM

Gamera

Redruum:

The guys have some excellent advice here. But if I may add if you're going to hand brush get some good quality brushes. They don't have to be the really expensive ones but grab a small pack of ones made for artists not the cheap white plastic Testor's ones or the super cheap ones made for kids.  And make sure to wash them out good with a clean water and a little soap if using acrylics and thinner if using enamels. If cleaned properly they'll last for a year or more.

Cliff

 

I went to Michaels/AC Moore and they had like... packs of REALLY NICE brushes on sale, like... 8 in a pack or something, all different sized, for like 3$.

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, January 17, 2012 2:38 PM

Redruum:

The guys have some excellent advice here. But if I may add if you're going to hand brush get some good quality brushes. They don't have to be the really expensive ones but grab a small pack of ones made for artists not the cheap white plastic Testor's ones or the super cheap ones made for kids.  And make sure to wash them out good with a clean water and a little soap if using acrylics and thinner if using enamels. If cleaned properly they'll last for a year or more.

Cliff

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Sunday, January 15, 2012 10:13 PM

Ok, here is what you need to do with brushing acrylics. 

 

get a SMALL amount on your brush.  Brush it on a light coat.  It will streak a bit because of the brush.  Let this thin coat dry then do it again, and again, and again.  Keep doing THIN LIGHT COATS until it covers, this will reduce the affect of the brush streaks.  I also suggest thinning your paint a bit, but Tamiya acrylics are fairly thin as is, so you dont really need to. 

Another thing, I COMPLETELY DEMAND that you do NOT paint before assembling.  Sometimes it is alright to, because it is a detail part but when you are starting off... dont paint before hand.

You want to follow this progression

-Cut part off of sprue with a sprue cutter, nail clippers, or small scissors, do NOT twist and pull the parts off.

-take sand paper and sand down the little nub that is left from where it was connected, a needle file is great for this, you can also use nail files for this

-test fit the pieces.  If it is snap together use a file to sand the male end of the numbs down a bit so it can be taken apart once assembled and make sure you have everything and it all lines up.  If it does NOT line up see the next step.

          ~if the piece does not fit together perfectly you should identify where the problem is.  Remove all      pieces except the ones that do not fit right.  FIRST you should make sure you assembled it right.  Once you have made sure it was NOT user error take your sand paper or needle file and sand down the part the best you can with it until any overhand is fixed.  If the problem is a gap fill it like you would a seam.  If your not sure how to proceed post here we will help.

-If all the pieces fit together like they should you then break it down into sub assembles.  Like for example, the R2D2 in your kit.  You can assemble the Legs and the Feet FIRST then assemble the body (with some modification)  ((((((If you are putting the bottom foot on there is a bit of a overhand on the top so it will lock inside the body.  If you are gluing you do NOT need this, so you can sand the overhang down and use glue to put it in and hold it in place, which is what I did on mine.))))))

-Assemble your sub assemblies, do as I said earlier with the glue, sand, prime, sand, putty method.

-Take the sub assemblies and paint them.  Prime and paint them as you would. 

-Once your sub assemblies are finished and DRY then you put them all together.

 

 

 

Also, you are very welcome.  You come here asking for help and as far as I am concerned that is why we post here, to get help and help others.

 

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Saturday, January 14, 2012 9:24 PM

I cant speak for Americana but I know from experience that Tamiya acrylics are not good for brush painting, primer or no primer. When I brush paint, I use either Model Master enamels or Vallejo acrylics, but I don't brush paint the entire subject, mostly just small details or figures. I mean, no matter what paint you use, I think you'll find that brush painting will be difficult to create an over all smooth finish on larger models without brush strokes, streaking, or multiple coats.

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by Redruum on Saturday, January 14, 2012 7:30 PM

@oddmush   I use a combination of Tamiya paints and Americana acrylics.  Yes I use brush for everything except for the original coat.  For star ships I will normall spray paint a light grey over the entire exterior prior to construction/detail painting.  I dont use an airbrush, im a bit intemidated by them. 

I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done."

Jean Luc Picard

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Saturday, January 14, 2012 7:16 PM

Very interesting subject, I've never seen these kits before! As far as painting goes, I take it you are using a brush to paint as opposed to airbrushing. What brand and type of paint are you using? This will make a big difference as far as how it goes down. Also, you could try using a primer before painting if you aren't already.

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by Redruum on Saturday, January 14, 2012 6:43 PM

also, when Im painting my models, the first paint is normally streaky and doesnt want to stick.  I thought about applying the same concept that I paint cars with.  Would it be beneficial to lightly sand the entire model prior to painting so the paint will stick in real well?

I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done."

Jean Luc Picard

  • Member since
    January 2012
Posted by Redruum on Saturday, January 14, 2012 6:41 PM

wow, thank you so much for taking the time to lay that out for me.  I really appreciate it, and will put it into use for my current project (U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-E).  When gluing the parts together, i use Tamiya Cement.  Should I sand off the painted portions where the two parts will connect, or will it cement together through the paint?

I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done."

Jean Luc Picard

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Saturday, January 14, 2012 6:09 PM

Not bad for a beginner.  You did better then I would have.  You did a much better job on the base then you did on the figures.

 

Well, since you are new let me introduce you to a few basic techniques you should familiarize yourself with.

 

The main one would be seam filling.  A seam is formed during construction when you place two halves of the kit together, there is no getting away with it.  I have this kit and the seams are a terror on it. 

There are a few ways to get rid of seams, I prefer mixing the two best methods. 

~The first thing you do is you glue the parts together, do not use A LOT of glue, just a small line along the edge should work, you do not want the glue overflowing out of the seam onto the kit.

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/TES00003501/product.php?s=4&t=2&u=0

~wipe any over excess away with a paper towel or tissue, do not SMEAR it over the details.

~when the glue dries you take a highish grit sand paper (not low enough grit that you could sand wood with it) you sand over the seam where the glue was put and sand down any of the glue that came out until that area is smoothed.

~once you have finished Sanding you should take a Spray Primer and spray it, from at least a foot away (don't put it up against the kit or anywhere close to it, also do this outside or somewhere with a window open and a fan pulling the fumes out).  Put a thin coat over the kit, specifically the seam you had just glued.  Doing this will show you CLEARLY where gaps and seams are left. http://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/TES00028138/product.php?s=3&t=1&u=0&micr=216&pg=1&ppp=24&sb=stocknumber&so=a

~now that you can see what parts of the seams are left you take some putty and, using an exacto knife, you spread it over JUST THE SEAM and ONLY where you can see a gap.  Make sure the putty goes into the seam a bit. 

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/SQP00010003/product.php?s=4&t=2&u=1

~LET THE PUTTY DRY OVERNIGHT or at least for a few hours

~once the putty has dried take some junky sand paper (because it will ruin it) and you sand the putty down until you can see the plastic.  This will remove all of the putty except that which is in the seam you are attempting to fill.

~wipe the seam down with a wet paper towl just to get rid of any 'saw dust' from the putty.

~re-prime the seam that you have just puttied and sanded.

~Check for any gaps or seams still showing, if there are, repeat the putty process.

 

 

I know that seems like a LOT but once you do it a few times it will become second nature and go by quickly.

Now you might ask, what is the difference, or does this look that much better?

 

Well, here is an example (I have no idea who these photos belong to, I went to google)

This is a kit with seam lines NOT fixed.

This is an example of a kit who has had the seams fixed but did not do a good job of it.  Looking closley you can see the seams are still there in spots where they can be seen and a few spots where the glue was not sanded off (around the ankle)

This is, well, stacking the deck.  This is what a kit can look like when everything is done perfectly.

 

 

 

 

Now with all of that basically, that is one of the simplest things you need to learn to do if you want to improve in your model building.  Even the most beautiful paint job will be subpar with seams showing.

 

Any questions just ask!

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2012
Yoda's encounter on Dagobah
Posted by Redruum on Saturday, January 14, 2012 4:18 PM

These "Action Scenes" that AMT puts out are some of my favorite.  I have done the Battle of Hoth and Attack on the Rebel Base thus far.  This is my newest edition.  The kit was simple enough to put together, the real joy came from painting and placing the characters and details in different locations.

 

 

I will not sacrifice the Enterprise. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And *I* will make them pay for what they've done."

Jean Luc Picard

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