Don't much care for this way.

Sorry Woody, what system are you talking about? The group builds thing?

I have to agree. I liked it better when the sci-fi GB's were in Sci-Fi section. Don't know why they changed it.

For all the folks not participating in various group builds, that's why. It was ridiculous to enter the armor forum and the entire first page was sticky topics on the various group builds. Who wants to sift through pages of group build sticky topics that you are not participating in to see some new content on subsequent pages?

There wasn't enough sticky topics in this forum to really make a difference, but in the larger forums it was a nuisance that added a lot of clutter and "fluff" to the forums.

J-Hulk, Yes the GB thing.

Rob Gronovius, I agree about the stickys but not about removing the topics from where they belong.
The GB's as free floating post with a centralized GB toppic with links worked great. This way is just plain clunky but I guess it was done for those who don't like the GB's in their topic and not to help those particapating in the builds.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius For all the folks not participating in various group builds, that's why. It was ridiculous to enter the armor forum and the entire first page was sticky topics on the various group builds. Who wants to sift through pages of group build sticky topics that you are not participating in to see some new content on subsequent pages? There wasn't enough sticky topics in this forum to really make a difference, but in the larger forums it was a nuisance that added a lot of clutter and "fluff" to the forums.

You know if you watch the veiw to reply counters its clear that there are plenty of people interested in the activities of their fellow modelers. I can understand in some cases the first page of a forum was mostly GBs but this was hardly the case for every catagory. Instead the problem, what seems to be for the few; now affects the many.
But if its in the basement next to the rats and free kits that FSM decided not to review then maybe they could give us a set of stairs?

And as for "fluff" there are a great many techniques, tips and inspiration shared in these GBs. If I'm not mistaken that is what the hobby is all about.

Guys,
I believe Lawrence addressed this a couple of days ago. The first topic in the Sci-fi forum is a sticky with a link to all of the Sci-fi group builds so you don't have to click in the Group Builds category and search for the sci-fi ones.
And yes, the Aircraft and Armor categories were getting full of GB's. While there are some interesting info in all of these, I for one spend plenty of time just hitting topics that interest me.

QUOTE: Originally posted by maxx1969 QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius For all the folks not participating in various group builds, that's why. It was ridiculous to enter the armor forum and the entire first page was sticky topics on the various group builds. Who wants to sift through pages of group build sticky topics that you are not participating in to see some new content on subsequent pages? There wasn't enough sticky topics in this forum to really make a difference, but in the larger forums it was a nuisance that added a lot of clutter and "fluff" to the forums. You know if you watch the veiw to reply counters its clear that there are plenty of people interested in the activities of their fellow modelers. I can understand in some cases the first page of a forum was mostly GBs but this was hardly the case for every catagory. Instead the problem, what seems to be for the few; now affects the many. But if its in the basement next to the rats and free kits that FSM decided not to review then maybe they could give us a set of stairs? And as for "fluff" there are a great many techniques, tips and inspiration shared in these GBs. If I'm not mistaken that is what the hobby is all about.

I agree there is a great deal of modeling information on the group build pages. Too bad most of it is buried under the group build topic heading instead of as a stand alone topic. Some of them are in the 30+ page range. I've participated in several of the group builds in the armor forum. After a while they get too cumbursome to follow. Great ideas, techniques and solutions got buried between the in-progress and completed photos and "looks great" posts.

I'm not against having the GB topic in the forum. I too thought it was odd that they moved it to an entirely different forum. I think they should have just stopped making the GB sticky topics and let them be free floating posts as Woody pointed out.

I think that if the GB post was able to have subcategories with such headings like:
1. Who's building what.
2. Questions and answers pertaining to the group build. (is this kit OK?, etc.)
3. In-progress reviews, includes techniques or helpful hints you may have used.
4. Completed projects.
You get the picture. I think it would be easier to sort through all the posts regarding a particular group build.

BTW, you may want to consider taking it down a notch. You seem to be awfully hostile for someone just talking about a "hobby". You attack me like it was my doing. I was just offering up a plausible reason why the GB were moved. I understand why they did it and even agree that it needed to be fixed. I don't necessarily agree with their solution though. I also pointed out in the last sentence of my first post that the sticky topics were a problem in the larger forums (armor in particular) and not in this one.

I think I'll find a friendlier place to discuss sci-fi modeling than this one.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Woody J-Hulk, Yes the GB thing.

Ah, now I got ya, Woody.
It does look like a better solution has been reached by putting a link to all GBs at the top of each forum. Seems reasonable to me.

Major Rob, don't go runnin' off now! Plenty o' friendly folk right here!

As to the reason why it was done, that can be best explained in this topic.
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GROUP BUILDS?!?!

In regards to letting the topics float, I think that would create another series of issues. For one it would make it more difficult to locate the group builds in busier forums. They would quickly drop off to page 2, 3 or more. Even after a group build is done, as many have stated, there's a ton of information that it would be a disservice to let it disappear into the depths of the forums. There's simply got to be a better way.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rob Gronovius I agree there is a great deal of modeling information on the group build pages. Too bad most of it is buried under the group build topic heading instead of as a stand alone topic. Some of them are in the 30+ page range. I've participated in several of the group builds in the armor forum. After a while they get too cumbursome to follow. Great ideas, techniques and solutions got buried between the in-progress and completed photos and "looks great" posts. ... I think that if the GB post was able to have subcategories with such headings like: 1. Who's building what. 2. Questions and answers pertaining to the group build. (is this kit OK?, etc.) 3. In-progress reviews, includes techniques or helpful hints you may have used. 4. Completed projects. You get the picture. I think it would be easier to sort through all the posts regarding a particular group build.

I think this best describes the problems with the group builds -- regardless of where they existed. I do think a sub-forum (within the categories) for each group build would help. Unfortunately, this forum software doesn't support sub-forums. It is something I could most likely remedy, but it's possible we'll be replacing this software with something else in the future which would have the features already built in.

I have never participated in a GB but i never minded seeing them in the sci-fi forum in fact I liked them there they allways either inspired me to build something or gave me ideas on how to fix problems i had with other models

Group builds have proven very popular but the sheer quantity of them was beginning to clog the first page of many forums with too many sticky threads. Letting the GB thread "float" in the modeling-subject forum with a link from a Group Build "uber-forum" had its own problems. The group builds for a particular modeling subject are still represented by a sticky thread at the top of the forum, e.g., http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22708

The present solution seems to alleviate most of the problems with the fewest unpleasant side-effects. If you're avidly following a particular build, you've already got the topic's thread in your Favorites or in a shortcut on your desktop, right?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lawrence Hansen Group builds have proven very popular but the sheer quantity of them was beginning to clog the first page of many forums with too many sticky threads. Letting the GB thread "float" in the modeling-subject forum with a link from a Group Build "uber-forum" had its own problems. The group builds for a particular modeling subject are still represented by a sticky thread at the top of the forum, e.g., http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22708

I like the GB sticky at the top of the individual forums. I'm just not crazy about removing the builds from their homes. It seems like letting the GB's float in their home forum with the sticky GB link at the top would be the best of both worlds. I just thought you might like opinions on the new format. Thanks for listening.

QUOTE: Originally posted by maxx1969 But if its in the basement next to the rats and free kits that FSM decided not to review then maybe they could give us a set of stairs?

* looks right and looks left *
No kits or rats down here, but that idea of adding a stairs sounds like a good one. I might be able to sneak out to go home and see the family once in awhile.

I think we should let the genre with the biggest weapons decide. Since we have phasers and photon torpedoes...........and HELLBORE...................Just kidding!!

Seriously the link at the top is fine with me. After all, this is a free forum that FSM does not have to support. I'll stop my whining.

Very...very cool David. I think the biggest thing is having the comunication(like now) about the changes,problems and solutions. Keep us up to speed so when we login, zip over to our build........... we're a little more prepared.

And I know there aren't any rats down here but you really gotta do something about these dust bunnies.