Complete beginner building Vinyl Ed-209 model! Please help!

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 10, 2005 4:13 AM

QUOTE: 6. What is Johnson’s Klear / Future?

I believe this is a floor wax. It is water based and will give the model a high gloss coat. But it can yellow your white decals over time. If this is off base will someone please correct me. Thanks.

QUOTE: black wash (indian ink and water?)

And I believe this is also called a "dark wash". I find it very helpful to dark wash with the opposite of what you painted with.(If your base coat is enamel then dark wash with acrylic base paint.) But others may vary. A dark wash is when you really really thin down a dark color to use as a wash over the model. The wash is "painted" over the model and the dark color rests in the recessed areas, this will add depth and a weathered look to the kit. A simular look can be accomplished using fine tipped model pens. Sorry dont know the correct term for them, but i bet the other guys do. And one more thing the secret to painting a great hand brushed job is to give it several coats. Between each coat let it dry, and only paint in one direction. Most important dont brush over the same area twice when the paint is still wet, one stroke. Like they say it takes longer but we all did it at one time, well most of us. GOOD LUCK.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 3:03 PM

You are right.
The Horizon is 1/9 scale, the argonauts kit is 1/12 and contains Vinyl resin and Metal parts.

You can still find the Horizon kit on eBay from time to time, the argonauts kit is a lot harder to find.

Aoshima(Argonauts) currently has 3 1/12 Robocop PVC action figs out(one from each Movie

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ilikespagetti

Member since
November 2003
From: maine

Posted by ilikespagetti on Saturday, January 8, 2005 1:15 PM

I thought the Horizon kit was the bigger 1/9 scale and the other one was the 1/12 scale. I've been planning on getting an ED209 model since I scrapped the idea of scratching it.I still don't know which one to buy, I love the size of the 1/9 scale kit but I don't think I have the skills of accurizing it.

I am a man, But I can change. If I have to....I guess...

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 4:53 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by morice

Excellent - a full on Fine Scale Modeler fight looks like it's brewing!

Seriously though, I wasn't expecting to cause a stir! Thanks again for both of your very helpful tips - I'll make sure I follow as much as possible.

Ta,

Moz

No fight here, just a difference of opinion. Big Smile [:D]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 4:29 AM

Excellent - a full on Fine Scale Modeler fight looks like it's brewing!

Seriously though, I wasn't expecting to cause a stir! Thanks again for both of your very helpful tips - I'll make sure I follow as much as possible.

Ta,

Moz

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 10:13 PM

Morice.

I got the same kit in the Stash, so if you give me a specific problem spot I can verify it with mine and give advise accordingly.

Count 2~3 month unless you are a fast builder and you should have a great looking kit.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 6:32 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hatewall

I just saw another post where you told someone to stop whining because their kit didn't have instructions.
You sound like a fun guy.

I call a spade a spade, people don't like it than they don't need to read my posts.

Simply getting tired of all the guys that continously whine because they realise that the real world is different from what they expect it to be.

I will help anybody that asks for advise and has made some effort prior to asking.
Morice asked some sterling questions which shows he has tried but is stuck and thus I m willing to help him. OTOH, flooding him with information that is not helpful at the moment will ony turn him away from the hobby.

As he progesses and asks more questions I will give him more tips(many of which will run counter to a lot of people's opinion on here, I am sure). Wink [;)]

Plus, I will try to keep his expenses as low as possible while still being able to finish the kit nicely.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 6:16 PM

I just saw another post where you told someone to stop whining because their kit didn't have instructions.

You sound like a fun guy.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 6:13 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hatewall

well, I don't know if it is neccessary to say I am full of crap. I am not trying to show him how good of a painter I am, just to get through his first build and paint.

Nobody said that you were full of crap, relax buddy.
I said that the statement is BS.

QUOTE:
I'm sure you are a talented brush-painter, no offense meant.

When I started in the hobby it was not customary for modelers to have an A/B way to expensive and we had to make do with brushes.
Even today I don't use the A/B as extensively as many oher modelers do as I found that SOME finishes look better hand-brushed than airbrushed.
The Horizon ED-209, IMHO, is one of those kits that will look best by handbrushing and a few weathering techniques only.

With a few pointers most people can become good brush-painters, problem is that few publications contain those pointers and rather point the novice modeler towards A/B.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 6:08 PM

well, I don't know if it is neccessary to say I am full of crap. I am not trying to show him how good of a painter I am, just to get through his first build and paint.

I'm sure you are a talented brush-painter, no offense meant.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 5:00 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hatewall
Spraying paint is always better than brushing on large areas, ...

Have to call BS here.
I spend years without an A/B(due to travels) and build contest winners (1/6 Guyver kit, etc) that were 100% hand-brushed.

Fact is that too many people believe this and thus never learn or try to learn to properly brush-paint.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 4:47 PM

HTH - ok great, thanks for the info on filling in all the bubbles - most of that's covered in Joe's guide so I'll try and make sure I follow that as much as I can.

Hi Hatewall - thanks for your reply!

By looking around on the internet and the two responses I've had so far it does look like I've picked a particularly troublesome first build - but it'salways good to start at the deep end :)

Thanks for your tips - they'll be very good to bear in mind - especially about not thinking of the finished model as a goal!

I'm guessing the washing in soapy water is to remove any oil or something before painting and glueing - and thanks for mentioning the primer - I probably would have just started painting away :)

On this bit:

QUOTE: dont fill the piece up all of the way. The stuff will expand and go all over the place. Also, don't wait until it has completely set, or it will be like wood when you try to shave it off.

What do people normally shave that sort of thing off with? Just a craft knife and file will be OK will it?

Thanks again for the tips! I'm starting tomorrow so fingers crossed.

Moz

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 4:39 PM

Yeah, Horizon bassically went the way of the Dodo.

You are doing something very similar to me, I also trim the excess first prior to cutting it off.
Don't worry you can get pretty good results with careful brush painting, but more when you get to that point. IMHO, there is only 1 Colour that is impossible to hand-brush on large scale kits and that is Flesh-colour.

Ok, get the Knife(Snap-off blade should work too and is cheaper) and trim the parts, that should take you quiet a bit of time.
After that check the kits for any bubbles, pin-holes and similar flaws that will need to be filled in. I am sure that there will be a few around the upper legs, etc.

HTH.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 4:36 PM

You are definitely biting off a lot for your fir kit.

First tip I can give you is to not think about the finished model as the goal, but rather as a fun experience that will reward you with something cool at the end. If you try to finish your model in a weekend, you won't be very happy with the results and it won't be a fun experience.

Wash the parts in warm soapy water.

Using a hairdryer is a good way of fixing warped parts as well as for warming areas you wish to cut with a hobby knife.

Using expanding foam to fill parts is also a good idea, just make sure you fill the halves before you put them together. Depending on the foam you use, it can cause enough force and heat to split the model in have as it expands. Some of the one part spray foams like Great Stuff we have here in the states is pretty mild, but takes a while to dry completely. 2 part 50/50 foams expand much more and heat up quite a bit. If you use a 2 part foam, dont fill the piece up all of the way. The stuff will expand and go all over the place. Also, don't wait until it has completely set, or it will be like wood when you try to shave it off.

Dry fit all of your parts with out any kind of glue. When you make assemblies, use masking tape to hold them together so you can see how everything fits together.

2 part epoxies work well for vinyl kits because it is still slightly flexible when it sets. Super glues will crack if flexed and over time, they get brittle and weak.

Spraying paint is always better than brushing on large areas, so if you dont want to buy and airbrush/compressor, look for model paints in spraycans. Model paints have more finely ground pigments than the regular spraypaint you might use to paint to a flowerpot or something like that.

Use a primer before you paint.

Patients and practice is the key to making models.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 4:32 PM

Hi HTH,

Thanks for the prompt reply - and for all the advice, very much appreciated!

I'm pretty sure the kit is an inferior / pirate / copy version - quite a few of the bits were warped and it was imported from Thailand. I couldn't find an actual Horizon kit anywhere, so I'm guessing that they've stopped making them now?

Thanks for the info on not getting / getting an A/B straight away. I'm ging to persevere and not get an A/B for this kit. If I manage to finish the kit to a standard I'm happy with and move on to something else maybe I can look at this option for the future.

QUOTE: I would asume that you have trimmed the parts so far and test-fitted them.

Not yet! I've started to trim the kits but slightly heating the excess bits and then cutting them down with some scissors on a pen-knife but then I thought I might be better asking from some advice before I ruin my beloved kit!
I'll be heading out to buy all the recommendations and get a proper craft knife to trim - thanks for the tip on moving the part and not the knife!

I'm a bit of a stubborn person so I'll probably be finishing the kit whether it takes me a month or 6 months :)
I've actually wanted a model of ed-209 for years now - I remember seeing one on top of a monitor of a graphic designer who was being interviewd on TV when I was in my teens and since then Ive been looking for a complete model. As I've never come across one I figured building my own would be the way to go - little did I realise how much of an art form this is in itself.

Anyway thanks again for the info, tips and advice - they're all appreciated!

Moz.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 4:21 PM

Ok, first of all welcome to the forum.

Secondly Vinyl kits are a challenge in themselves and usually are not recommended for the novice modeler.
Thirdly you said that the kit is a Replica, if I understand this right it is a pirate copy of the Horizon kit and thus inferior in quality.

Not sure what instructions came with the kit, but Horizon usually included a small guide on how to build Vinyl Kits.

What you will need are:
1.) 2-part epoxy glue, forget superglue for vinyl kits.
2.) A good primer
3.) Paints & Thinners
4.) Brushes

If this is your first kit I would forget about trying to super-detail it, first learn the basic skills of modeling like vinyl trimming, assembly, seam filling, painting, etc.
There is still plenty of time to learn things like airbrushing, scratch-building, etc later on.

Believe it or not, contrary to modern opinion you CAN paint a model with brushes and achieve a near perfect finish. Just takes a but of time and practice and not to give in to the temptation to buy an A/B outright.

I would asume that you have trimmed the parts so far and test-fitted them.
Tip:
When trimming move the part NOT the knife, way better control that way.

As for how long it will take, that depends on you and if you will stick with the kit.
Like I said Vinyl kits are not the best for a beginning modeler(especially pirate copies) and most will give up halfway through the build and leave the Hobby.

Feel free to drop me an email with specific question

HTH.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Complete beginner building Vinyl Ed-209 model! Please help!

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 7, 2005 3:39 PM

Hi,

First off I'd like to say hello to everyone at FSM - you guys (and gals) look like you know a thing or two about building models!

I'm completely new to model building, painting, vinyl kits, glue, airbrushes and pretty much anything to do with modelling. Yep, I'm a Newbie, but I like to think of myself as on the very first rung of hopefully an enjoyable time building my very own ed-209!

You'll have to excuse me if anything in this post is incorrect - I seriously know nothing about model building so I've probably got a lot of stuff wrong.

OK, basically I'm looking for whatever help people can give me. I've purchased a cheap "replica" kit of ed-209 from eBay - it's a 1/12 scale model Horizon Vinyl Kit.

The kit is fairly warped in some places, but I've just about managed to straighten the glaring errors out using a hairdryer and a couple of fingers. :)

The problem is I have NO idea of what I'm supposed to do next or how.

I have not paints, glue, knives, airbrushes or experience to go on - so, obviously, I'm bricking it :)

I've seen this great little feature from Joe Jimenez on this forum:
http://www.angelfire.com/droid/ed-209/index.html

This is a fantasic guide for me and I'll be following it as much as possible - but I still have a lot of questions that I haven't got a clue about!

OK - questions are as follows, please offer any help or advice you can - it'll all be greatly appreciated.

1. Should I buy an Airbrush? I dont know if I'll build any models after Ed, so don't really want to spend much money on the compressor. I;ve seen you can buy Aerosol cans to subsctitute for the compressor but I'm guessing these wouldn't be as good - is it worth using these anyway? What advantage would I have in using an airbrush?

2. Where can I buy the July 1994 issue of Fine Scale Modeler? There's an article by Bob Norton on "improving Horizon's ed-209" that I'd like to read, but the page on the website doesn't give any indication of how to buy the magazine. I'm English, and so obviously don't understand you lot's use of English - I've tried clicking "Purchase the Special Issue" and "Purchase Annual" links but I get an error 404!
[edit: I've managed to order a back issue of this now - thanks for any suggestions]

3. How do I glue my model kit together? I've been researching as much as possible before posting to cut down on the Newbie questions and a couple of places said you can basically just heat up the parts, squish them together then let them cool to act as a bond, yet I would have thought it would be better to glue them together? I particularly like Joe Jimenez's idea of filling each of the parts with expanding foam and them glueing them together - I would imagine this would be an excellent way of ensureing the model remained stable and well glued - but is it normal / recommended?
What sort of glue do I need?

4. How long is this going to take me? I originally thought it may take a weekend to make the kit, but after reading articles and ofrums on the web it seems people take months or even years to make kits - and they're the experienced ones!

5. What kit do I need? I'm thinking:
lacquer thinner
Tamiya thinner (is that lacquer thinner or different?)
flow enhancer (if I get an airbrush)
Tamiya Black paint (is it called ink or paint?)
Gunze’s H307 grey ink / paint
black, tire black, dark gray, silver, gunmetal and white ink / paint
glue, thin for sealing and thick for filling some gaps
model putty
craft knife - 1 fine handle, one heavy
tweezers
air brush
hobbey file
toothpicks
black wash (indian ink and water?)

6. What is Johnson’s Klear / Future?

7. Any other help or tips that I may not know please mention - even if you think it's pretty obviosuly, I probably wont!

Any help would be greatly appreciated - thank you for the time in reading this post, and thanks for providing such a good, niche forum!

Regards,

Moz.

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