Star Wars III

QUOTE: Originally posted by unsc_shipworks QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk I finally had a chance to see the film! And meanwhile, J-Hulk, I finally had a chance to see GODZILLA FINAL WARS on the big screen in NYC last week! But I guess that's a topic for another thread...?

A fair trade (maybe)!

Well, it'd probably be only the two of us who have seen GFW starting such a thread, but who knows?
Hey, is GFW in general release over there?

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk I finally had a chance to see the film!

And meanwhile, J-Hulk, I finally had a chance to see GODZILLA FINAL WARS on the big screen in NYC last week! But I guess that's a topic for another thread...?

I finally had a chance to see the film! Special "sneak preview" all-night shows were held here in Japan last night, with general release being July 9th.
In a word, I thought it was magnificent. Call me a know-nothing sentimental fool if you will, but I thought the film was a powerfully moving and emotional ending (well, middle) to 28 years of storytelling. I'll leave the continuity problems and other points of contention (acting, FX, etc) for you more knowlegeable folk to discuss, but as a guy who grew up with Star Wars, I couldn't have been more satisfied with Ep III.

Several more viewings are definitely in order!

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lufbery Larry, I agree. The best special effects I've seen, with one or too exceptions, are done with models. One very good exception are the F/A-18s in "Independence Day." For some reason, they had me convinced. I think it was, in part, because the planes didn't look brand new. Regards,

I think that is just the big difference with the orriginal SW movies. I the orriginal ones we got to see for the very first time OLD spaceships in SF, used, beaten, falling a part (I believe the last one is even a quote from one of those movies), In the new episodes they give us shiny CGI ships that look even more modern then the old ones, which are supposed to be newer.

Necrobaron, I see am not the only one to have toyed with the idea of Greivous being Darth maul. Too bad it is quite obvious from the eyes that he is not but hey who knows....
Yes we have been in serious need for a Y-wing. they are my favoite fighers!

" the Prequels might've been more popular."

Together, they've made over a billion dollars at the box office alone. I think they qualify as "popular" :)

You can pick at the prequels all you like, but obviously it will have no effect on them or any future modifications they may endure. There are numerous things *I'd* have done different, sure, but I'm not the filmmaker. I just bankroll his hobby.

The important thing that is pertinent to this forum is, IMHO, what models are available, what are desireable/possible for scratchbuilding, and WHEN WILL WE EVER GET A DECENT Y-WING KIT (that doesn't cost hundreds of $$) ??

Well, I enjoyed the flick and felt it was the best of the prequel trilogy and maybe even the best SW movie since TESB. I felt the dialogue and acting was better than I and II and pretty much on par with the OT. I thought Ewan McGregor as Obi-wan Kenobi and Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine were particularly noteworthy. Remember that the SW series has never really been a bastion of great acting and I accepted that long ago. Frankly, I blame the inadequacies of Ep.III on I and II. It felt rushed because, frankly, some of the stuff that happened in it should've occured in I and II. If we could go back and redo the prequels, I would take what we have now and modify it in some key areas.

Some futile, revisionist, geekly, nut-shell suggestions in no particular order:

I would've started Ep.I with Obi-wan as he appears in Ep. III and Anakin as an adult (either as Kenobi's apprentice or as an established Jedi). I don't think many people really cared how Anakin was "discovered", but maybe it could be briefly mentioned in the opening crawl. Just mention that he was trained later than normal, is restless, and blah. Somehow introduce Padme and start the beginnings of her and Anakin's little forbidden romance. Palpatine is either already in power, or is elected into it. Qui-gon is either a contemporary of Kenobi's or not in it at all. He doesn't really matter. Anakin and Obi-wan defeat Darth Maul, but probably under different circumstances. The Clone Wars are already on (also explained in the opening) and Obi-wan and Anakin have rip-roaring adventures. Jar Jar is nowhere to be seen. Anakin does disturbing things that foreshadow his fate, subtly spurred on by Palpatine.

Ep.II is 2-3 years later and the whole secret romance thing goes into high-swing. Luke and Leia's conception is implied (a sex scene in Star Wars? Yeah right... ) The Clone Wars continue. Anakin and Obi-wan continue to have swashbuckling adventures and ripping good fun. Still unknown to Obi-wan, Anakin does more bad, irrational things and is continued to be manipulated by Palpatine. Anakin completes his turn to the dark side, begun in Ep.I, in a cliffhanger, downer ending similar to TESB. Palpatine also reveals himself for what he is at some point too.

Ep.III is maybe a year or so later and is similar to what we already have in some respects. Luke and Leia are infants, but are hidden at the movie's end. General Grievous shows up (or he could do so in Ep.II, really). Grievous turns out in a plot twist to be a "resurrected" Darth Maul in a final duel with Kenobi. The Clones have turned "bad" and the Jedi have been persecuted since Anakin became Vader. Anakin now wears a "Vader-ish" suit, but without the helmet or the eletronics. The Jedi have greatly suffered and been diminished. Obi-wan spends most of the movie trying to track down Anakin and redeem him. After a few fleeting encounters, the final duel eventually ensues and the rest is history.

There are all kinds of details, subplots, and characters that were left out, but I think if Lucas had followed a similar outline, the Prequels might've been more popular.

I tend to agree with MadMike on that. All Lucas did with the New Tril was "muddle the waters". However it did provide an excellent origin for the Storm Troopers though them all being clones of Fett was a bit of a stretch...
Also how the Jedi were assinated was cool though i still felt an explosive device in the Jedi council building would have been just as effective and would have reflected the terror attacks going on in the real world...
Better saying he slayed the "younglings"?!!!!lol
Any way one big explosion and no more Jedi kids and all and it would have been "understood" that the kids were killed too. I just didn't feel that Anikan's character had devloped enough to slay Jedi children esp considering his wife was pregnant. I know he slaughtered some sand people and their chidren but he was ticked because they killed his mother that is a far cry from killing innocent children who looked up to you...

The Star Wars novels tell a lot more to how the Jedi and the Sith formed and interacted. Actually, before Han and Leia's youngest son, Anakin Organa-Solo dies in battle against the Yuuzhan Vong he is regarded as the most promising Jedi.

These books are canon so I tend to relate more to the second trilogy and the subsequent novels set during and after episodes 4-6. Once again, to me the episodes 4-6 are Star Wars, not the newer trilogy.

Mike

excellent points by Chris and Martian....I shall have to meditate on these.
Thanks for the interesting dialogue!!

I have a rather odd view of how "balance was brought to the Force". In my humble opinion Anikin did bring balance to the force by eliminating the Jedi!
A couple of Sith and a Gazillion Jedi cannot be considered a balance by any means. If anything Luke created a void by killing the Emperor and bringing Vader back to the Light. To qoute old Ben Kenobe it's all from "a certain point of view". After Anikin destroyed the Jedi you then had two Sith and Two Jedi [as far as we know based on movie continuity). Looks like balance to me. Before the Light Side "ruled" then the Dark Side ruled...

mpartric, I also see where you are comming from.. But I still do believe that after what every one, (even George Lucas) says. And that is that in my honest opinion. The trilogy prequals were in fact an after thought!.. In saying this, I dont believe that the whole 6 movies are centred around Anikan-Darth. Rather the story is based on Luke Skywalker, who is in fact the chosen one, that actually brings balance to the force. Not his father as we are led to believe!. The first 3 movies get us ready for us to see this, thus in my opinion the most important momment in all six movies is actually the birth of Luke and Leia, under the ever watchfull eye's of Yoda and Obi-wan.... For me, that is when the true story is finally revealed.......

This is a story of a boy (Anikan) being thought to be the chosen one. And the Jedi's lack of understanding and mis-calculation that brings apon thier own undoing... As it turns out, he certainly is not the chosen one, and thus the Jedi are all but destroyed.. At a time when he himself has been turned to the dark side. He in all reality has fathered the child that would indeed bring the universe back into sinc...All be it if he feels that he had killed his wife and child in the process. Thus being a great plot bender in order for both Luke and Leia to remain anonamous...Also remembering that Leia herself is a strong and powerfull being. Proving that she is wise and mature, way beyond her years.. We simply dont see her true potential in the original series, but as a young woman, she shows extra-ordinary balls !!!..So in a way, I do believe that she is part of Luke in a way in which rightly or wrongly, they both bring balance to the force..

When you look at Anikans rise from a slave. Although at a rate faster than most he becomes quite powerfull. This is a reason for why the Jedi believed that he might be the chosen one.. But although fast, it still takes him into his early twenties before even the Emporer feels he himself is ready to join him in his endevours.. Luke on the other hand, had no idea of what he was, or how he became, but in a short period of time and training, he was able to become even more powerfull than his father, and proved himself well beyond his years.. I also do believe that Yoda and Obi-wan learned from thier mistakes with Anikan, and were able to show Luke skills in which would be beneficial to Luke and his training.. Along with Leia's obvious nack for kicking the Empires ****** at every turn. This was just the balance they needed to bring down the Sith..

Luke was the head kicker. And Leia was the money man!.. Although I enjoyed watching the turn of Vader in the the 3 films. I was let down at the end with the dummy spit.. Vader is more of a mystery and tough guy than that. And as I stated before, should have been more Vader like, after learning the news of Padme, go down on one knee. Suck it in, and then focus on killing some people.. Not have a hissy fit!!!.........

Luke, will and always will be Star Wars

Chris in Japan

Wow. That`s very intersting and cool to know. Thanks mpartric.
Anyway, between Ep. 3 and Hitchhickers guide my love for Sci-fi movies has renewed. I hadn't realized that for several months I just wanted to watch war/action movies.
In the last couple of weeks I watched Alien vs predator, V: the final battle, star wars ep I, 2 & 5 and aliens.
I don't remember when was the last time a movie, or a pair, moved me so much.

I know that I don't post on the sci fi forum very often, but I saw this thread and thought I'd throw my two cents in. I really enjoyed episode III, mainly because it finally explained Darth Vader. I agree with the above statements about mediocre acting, long fight scenes, etc...but I always felt that there was something to Star Wars that I didn't fully understand. That became much more clear to me after watching episode III. The six movies, taken as a whole, are in my opinion really the story of the Shakespearean tragedy of Darth Vader. That is what all six movies center around, and the rest in my opinion is ancillary. I think that's why Lucas made them in the order he did; we first see Vader in episode IV as the incarnation of evil; his is a very mysterious character for much of the first two movies. However, he realizes his fatal character flaw too late but ultimately redeems himself just as Shakespeare's tragic heros do. In my humble opinion, what makes the movies so great in terms of a tragedy story is the prequel nature to them. He is mysterious in the IV-VI, and the story of why all this happened is told in I-III. I agree that I and II were disappointing in several aspects, but I feel that was definitely made up for in episode III. What a climax for almost thirty years of wondering what happened to anakin to see him almost burned alive, consumed by hate, and eventually completely transformed into Vader. He is literally transformed by his outward change of appearance, and inwardly completes the transformation when he first wonders aloud what happened to his wife. When he realizes she is dead, he has nothing left to live for, thus giving himself completely to evil. Here's a link from a lit professor from Columbus State U that shows a summary of the tragic pattern. Almost all of these events happen to anakin. It's pretty interesting.

http://global.cscc.edu/engl/264/TragedyLex.htm#PATTERN

Two other interesting points. First of all, anakin does eventually fulfill the prophecy of restoring balance to the force. He does defeat the dark side by killing his master and dying himself. Look at the last two parts of the pattern on the link, listed "Death of the tragic hero" and "restoration of order." That can't possibly be a coincidence. Some food for thought.

In my opinion, Vader will go down as the archetypal tragic hero from modern popular culture; he's much more accessible than Othello, King Lear, or Hamlet (and a lot easier to comprehend). The movies are about his rise, fall, and redemption. There's no need to make the last three scripts into movies because they really don't have anything to do with Vader. Just my opinion, mind you.

Lastly, probably the coolest scene in all of the six movies is the three or four seconds of dead silence after the droids put on Vader's helmet. Then, the breathing starts. It's so creepy to me because I remember that as one of the first memories as a kid when I watched episode IV in the theatre (about two years old hahaha.) Anyhoo I realize that this is pretty much completely off topic but post or email me back and let me know what you think of this silly little over-analysis of the movies.

I have only read the first novel. It was actually quite good.

The X-wing and Thrawn novels are my favourites!

cheers

Mike

joewhite, I concur as well. madmike and ichirofan2004 I agree with you both as well. Many post Jedi books are far superior to the "new" trilogy, even Tales Of the Bouty Hunters and Tales from Mos isley were more interesting, but still they are books and it would be unfair to compair...
But it is true that the originals in the book form, and the Radio drama, had much better dialog and a much more "fleshed out" story. Has anyone every read the book version of the second trilogy? I have't but I am curious to know if they are any better...

I finally saw episode 3 today.

What can I say that hasn't been said already?

Nothing, so just te basics: acting=bad/ok,FX=ok/good,fight scenes=ok/good, styling (ship designes etc) very good!