Poll

Who watches the Watchmann?

I voted.

I voted also

BAM!

David

Chalk up another vote!

But are we really suprised that "fixed wing" & "armor" are in the top spots?

Ok guys, what do you think? Can he not really find the poll, or is he just pulling our legs?

And if he can't really find it, do I tell him? At this point, it's kind of funny...

You know we still love you, right KTM?

Cosmic J wrote:

Ok guys, what do you think? Can he not really find the poll, or is he just pulling our legs? And if he can't really find it, do I tell him? At this point, it's kind of funny... You know we still love you, right KTM?

[Ash]"I'm blind, I'm blind"[Ash] 

Edit: Fixed Wing Aircraft? 

LOL! Who's Ash?

Check the FSM mainpage, and scroll all the way down...

Edit: Fixed Wing Aircraft?

I don't know. Something to do w/ these guys named Orville and Wilbur. I never pay attention to the news...

Cosmic J wrote:

Edit: Fixed Wing Aircraft? I don't know. Something to do w/ these guys named Orville and Wilbur. I never pay attention to the news...

Forget them... what the frack is an... "air craft"???

I can't tell if you're being serious or joking...

If you're referring to American manufacturers, I'd totally agree...

...but check these out:

http://www.hasegawa-model.co.jp/e-w/nrb/NRB2.html

http://www.primeportal.net/models/thomas_voigt2/hasegawa/

rysh4 wrote:

When was the last time you saw a good S.F. model?  The re-releases cost way too much for what you get and there aren't many choices.

Seriously?  Well, I put forth any of the Star Wars Fine Molds kits.  I just got a gander at the rerelease of the Viper & it looks pretty good considering.  I still love the PL TOS-E (bought about 12 of those for different ships).  Resin offerings are another dozen offerings altogether!

PL TOS-E?

I just figure no one has introduced rysh4 to HobbyLinkJapan yet. I remember the first time I found HLJ. It was like someone gave me the keys to the toystore.

Cosmic J wrote:

PL TOS-E?

It's a great little kit, loads of options & parts out the wazoo left over when you're done.  I know of few other SF kits that you can build four options of right out of the box.  I like it.  And that's all that matters!

Oh, I should also mention the PL E-A.

I just figure no one has introduced rysh4 to HLJ yet. I remember the first time I found HLJ. It was like someone gave me the keys to the toystore.

Indeed!  I havn't ordered much from them, so I can't vouch for any kits personally, which is why I didn't mention what are I'm sure several great kits in their inventory.

Hmmm...

I think I may have been misunderstood...

What I meant to say is: What is a PL TOS-E?

I thought a PL E-A was what you gave a judge to avoid excessive jail time.

Placed my vote.

I dunno, tho.  Maybe some sepatrate options by subject should be set up.  I'd kinda worry about anyone in the SF section voting "full-scale subject" .

'Course, I guess access to studio miniatures and sets could count.

Cosmic J wrote:

Hmmm... I think I may have been misunderstood... What I meant to say is: What is a PL TOS-E? I thought a PL E-A was what you gave a judge to avoid excessive jail time.

<forhead smack> Your're kidding, right?  Please say you're kidding.  Oooookay...  just in case you're serious:

PL TOS-E: The 1/1000 Polar Lights Enterprise from the original series of Star Trek.

PL E-A: 1/350 Polar Lights Enterprise-A

The box for the E-A can be seen in my avatar, & yes, it's that big!  Three feet long when built.

Noooo! I'm not kidding you! Reeaally! Why are we engaging in Hyperbole?!

Yeah, I built a couple of those back when they first came out. A Klingon Cruiser too.

My confusion came because of your use of PL TOS. Normally TOS is preceded by the series name: BSG TOS, ST TOS, TNS TOS, OL TOS, etc. I'm sitting around trying to figure out what series began w/ PL.

To make it worse, for some reason, I thought Playing Mantis / Aurora put those kits out.

Don't be mad, but I didn't care much for them. If I wasn't being paid to build them, I would have just tossed ‘em.

The Enterprise's outlines were pretty close to correct (a first), but the details were soft, the panel lines were overdone, and the base was totally inadequate. The supports for the warp nacelles required about a quarter of a stick of Miliput to fill properly (although laminating them was a smart way to give them extra strength). Even the painting suggestions were wrong. Both of my kits had flash on them, and the warp nacelles were...well, warped.

At about $15 US, you get what you pay for.

The Klingon cruiser was only marginally better. The pylon to the bridge was crooked at its base. There's just no excuse for a major modeling company to make that big an engineering error. The chrome pieces didn't fit well, and they were placed in such a way that they needlessly complicated the painting process. Again, worth about what it cost, $12 or so.

It's strange, given the popularity of ST, but few if any of the plastic kits it inspired are any good. Maybe Fine Molds will put out some in the near future.

BTW, the very first model I ever built was the ST accessory set. It had a Phaser, a Tricorder and a Communicator w/ a flip open top. Even as a kid, I realized it was inaccurate, but I had fun playing w/ it. Wish I had that kit now.

Cosmic J wrote:

Noooo! I'm not kidding you! Reeaally! Why are we engaging in Hyperbole?!

You know, I had to look that one up!  Never heard the word before.

My confusion came because of your use of PL TOS. Normally TOS is preceded by the series name: BSG TOS, ST TOS, TNS TOS, OL TOS, etc. I'm sitting around trying to figure out what series began w/ PL.

Ooooh!!  Now I get why you were so confused!   And yes, you're right in that when talking about the shows, fans do often preceed with the acryos.  Perhaps it was a bit presumptious of me, but when I'm at the other forums (Starship Modeler & HobbyTalk), everyone often uses those abbreviations.

To make it worse, for some reason, I thought Playing Mantis / Aurora put those kits out.

Well, technically, Playing Mantis did put these kits out.  Polar Lights was a subdivision of Playing Mantis.  They were in the same building, worked for the same boss (Tom Lowe) & more or less, Polar Lights was really only one guy (Dave Metzner) who had a really big office, complete with a bench for building & test fitting.

Don't be mad, but I didn't care much for them. If I wasn't being paid to build them, I would have just tossed ‘em.

Not mad at all!  Don't worry about it.

The Enterprise's outlines were pretty close to correct (a first), but the details were soft, the panel lines were overdone, and the base was totally inadequate. The supports for the warp nacelles required about a quarter of a stick of Miliput to fill properly (although laminating them was a smart way to give them extra strength). Even the painting suggestions were wrong. Both of my kits had flash on them, and the warp nacelles were...well, warped.

The soft lines were explained by Metzner as being a comprimise for bringing it in at a lower price point, IIRC.  As for your kits having flash, I've never seen a kit that hasn't.  As for your nacelle problem, in all the kits I've purchased I've never had a problem with them.  After manufacturing & packaging, there could have been any number of things that happened to make them warped.  For me, paying $15 provided many hours of great building fun on what is to date the most accurate rendition of the TOS E ever made.

The Klingon cruiser was only marginally better. The pylon to the bridge was crooked at its base. There's just no excuse for a major modeling company to make that big an engineering error.

Of course there is.  Mistakes happen.  It's a part of life.  And realative to size & company life, PL was just a newbie, only existing for a few years, unlike AMT, Revell & Monogram.  The problem was tracked down to a person at the China manufacturing plant.  It was a simple input error into the machine that cut the mold.  The error was corrected in the second run of the kit.

It's strange, given the popularity of ST, but few if any of the plastic kits it inspired are any good. Maybe Fine Molds will put out some in the near future.

We can only hope!  Or maybe Mobeius or Monarch can produce some, too.  But they are also new & I think they don't have the revenue yet.

BTW, the very first model I ever built was the ST accessory set. It had a Phaser, a Tricorder and a Communicator w/ a flip open top. Even as a kid, I realized it was inaccurate, but I had fun playing w/ it. Wish I had that kit now.

I've never owned it, but I've heard many people speak fondly of it.  I wouldn't mind having one myself!

What I meant was the models are more or less the same, with very few extras. Some of the molding faults from the first releases were fixed.  (i.e.  X-wing fighter)

The S.F. poll was low because (from my point of view) there hasn't been alot of new types of models. For example, the Star Wars Corellian corvette. A long time ago Finescale did a poll that asked what model would you want to see produced. The Corellian corvette came first then the A-10 1/32 scale if my memory is correct. To me it's not about price, well just a little. Its about choices and passion for your hobby. I would suggest to anyone in the position to say which models should be produced may take a look at the Star Wars essential guide to vehicles and vessels or any book of this type. I'm sure that there is a much wider selection, one  just has to really search. I checked out HLJ nice.  

POS II:

You know, I had to look that one up!  Never heard the word before.

Well I'm glad I could give you something new. Just make sure you pronounce it correctly if you use it in public. Very embarrassing otherwise...

The soft lines were explained by Metzner as being a comprimise for bringing it in at a lower price point, IIRC.  As for your kits having flash, I've never seen a kit that hasn't.  As for your nacelle problem, in all the kits I've purchased I've never had a problem with them.  After manufacturing & packaging, there could have been any number of things that happened to make them warped.  For me, paying $15 provided many hours of great building fun on what is to date the most accurate rendition of the TOS E ever made.

I've come to the realization that in the last ten years, I've become a real model building snob. I've seen lots of guys around here get excellent results from kits I would have turned my nose up at just two months ago. I may have to rethink some of my positions.

I disagree w/ your assertion that all kits have flash. In the last year, I've purchased about 20 kits, only two of which had any flash whatsoever: Revell's 1967 El Camino, and Mini Art Studios' ‘Spartan Warrior'.

To be fair to Mr. Metzner (see, you taught me something too) the flash on my Enterprise in no way interfered w/ the kits construction. My objection was purely aesthetic.

Of course there is.  Mistakes happen.  It's a part of life.  And realative to size & company life, PL was just a newbie, only existing for a few years, unlike AMT, Revell & Monogram.  The problem was tracked down to a person at the China manufacturing plant.  It was a simple input error into the machine that cut the mold.  The error was corrected in the second run of the kit.

I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one. Not only have I mastered and manufactured my own models for sale, but I've also worked as both a draftsman and a machinist. I just can't imagine an error like that getting past quality control, unless there was none.

Of course, I could just be bitter. If I had waited another year, I would have gotten a better kit. Ah, well.

We can only hope!  Or maybe Mobeius or Monarch can produce some, too.  But they are also new & I think they don't have the revenue yet.

I second that! I just got Monarchs ‘Nosferatu' kit last week (in the afore mentioned shipment) and it's awesome. I hear they're going to do ‘Conan' next. It's a good time to be a model builder!

PetarB:

Haha, Prince of Styrene II, come on, not everyone on this forum is a Star Trek nut...? ... ... ... or maybe they are...!

 Define "nut".

rysh4:

The S.F. poll was low because (from my point of view) there hasn't been alot of new types of models. For example, the Star Wars Corellian corvette. A long time ago Finescale did a poll that asked what model would you want to see produced. The Corellian corvette came first then the A-10 1/32 scale if my memory is correct. To me it's not about price, well just a little. Its about choices and passion for your hobby. I would suggest to anyone in the position to say which models should be produced may take a look at the Star Wars essential guide to vehicles and vessels or any book of this type. I'm sure that there is a much wider selection, one  just has to really search.

Ah, I think I get what your saying. If there were more choices in the Sci-Fi section of the hobby shop, there would be more interest in Sci-Fi models.

Yeah, I totally agree w/ that.

I'm not a Star Wars fan, but man those ship designs are nice. I can think of maybe three or four ships/vehicles. I'd like to see in styrene.

I checked out HLJ nice.

I'm very glad you liked it. I don't know what the exchange rates are where you live, but maybe buying some things directly from HLJ could save you some money.

Cosmic J wrote:

Of course there is.  Mistakes happen.  It's a part of life.  And realative to size & company life, PL was just a newbie, only existing for a few years, unlike AMT, Revell & Monogram.  The problem was tracked down to a person at the China manufacturing plant.  It was a simple input error into the machine that cut the mold.  The error was corrected in the second run of the kit. I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one. Not only have I mastered and manufactured my own models for sale, but I've also worked as both a draftsman and a machinist. I just can't imagine an error like that getting past quality control, unless there was none.

Wow, you sound a lot like me. We're going to have to talk about that mastering kits thing. Maybe we can work together on something. I'm really interested in learning more about your experiences in this area.

The short version goes something like this: ... 

When I'm in the mood to lie to myself, I say: "That wasn't half bad. We at least broke even. Totally. We might have even made some money. Yeah, that's the ticket!"

At which point I can finally fall asleep.

PetarB wrote:

What's a PL TOS? Haha, Prince of Styrene II, come on, not everyone on this forum is a Star Trek nut...? ... ... ... or maybe they are...!

Yea, define nut!    Hey, sci-fi nuts are less crazy than say, sports fans.  When was the last time you saw a riot in the streets after a Star Trek convention?  Or say.... a war!

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/sierra/soccer1969.htm

Now that's crazy!

rysh4 wrote:

The S.F. poll was low because (from my point of view) there hasn't been alot of new types of models. For example, the Star Wars Corellian corvette.

I have to totally agree with you on that!  I know so many people who would lovve to see the Tantive IV in plastic, myself included.  About the most interesting variation we've gotten recently in the TIE Interceptor & a decent model of the Y-Wing.

Cosmic J wrote:

I've come to the realization that in the last ten years, I've become a real model building snob. I've seen lots of guys around here get excellent results from kits I would have turned my nose up at just two months ago. I may have to rethink some of my positions.

I'm glad that I could make you think of something new.  I always find it fascinating & refreshing to open up to a new way of thinking. 

I disagree w/ your assertion that all kits have flash. In the last year, I've purchased about 20 kits, only two of which had any flash whatsoever: Revell's 1967 El Camino, and Mini Art Studios' ‘Spartan Warrior'.

Hmmm.... looks like you picked all the good kits off the shelves!   But I do acknowledge that manufacturers have been getting better with putting their seam lines in better locations.

To be fair to Mr. Metzner (see, you taught me something too) the flash on my Enterprise in no way interfered w/ the kits construction. My objection was purely aesthetic.

A fair statement.

I think we are just going to have to disagree on this one. Not only have I mastered and manufactured my own models for sale, but I've also worked as both a draftsman and a machinist. I just can't imagine an error like that getting past quality control, unless there was none.

The kits that you've manufacturered, were they plastic or resin?

As far as an error getting past QC, well, we've all heard of the problems of QC in China lately.

I just got Monarchs ‘Nosferatu' kit last week (in the afore mentioned shipment) and it's awesome. I hear they're going to do ‘Conan' next. It's a good time to be a model builder!

Lucky!!  I havn't had the chance to grab any yet.  Though I'm more of a "hardware guy", I'd like to pick one up, even if it's just to support his company.  Have you seen their websites?  The Ghost of Castle Mare is up soon, IIRC.  Neat stuff is commin'!   I look forward to all of it!

POSII:

I'm glad that I could make you think of something new.  I always find it fascinating & refreshing to open up to a new way of thinking.

LOL! Well, sorry to disappoint you, but I was more thinking of  ‘rysh4' (especially his Millennium Falcon), ‘SMJ modeler' in the armor forum, and ‘chopperpilot71' in the aircraft forum. These guys do some great work w/ very simple kits. Check out the ‘Classic Kit Group Build' for some more great examples.

The kits that you've manufacturered, were they plastic or resin?

Both, as well as white metal, photo-etched metal, and before Congress outlawed the use of lead in miniatures, I even cast my own gaming figures.

As far as an error getting past QC, well, we've all heard of the problems of QC in China lately.

Well, I've heard of them, but never seen any. Dragon/DML, Hobby Boss and Trumpeteer are putting out some of the best kits available these days, at really reasonable prices.

I figure it's just the newest melody set to the same old drumbeat. When I was young, it was the "Commies" who were trying to turn us into Evil Socialists (whatever that is). Then it was the Japanese, trying to destroy our auto industry and buy up the whole country. Now it's the Chinese, attempting to flood American markets w/ shoddy goods.

Whenever someone produces a quality product at a good price, the Haters come out of the woodwork. Same song, different decade.

Lucky!!  I havn't had the chance to grab any yet.  Though I'm more of a "hardware guy", I'd like to pick one up, even if it's just to support his company.  Have you seen their websites?  The Ghost of Castle Mare is up soon, IIRC.  Neat stuff is commin'!   I look forward to all of it!

I just checked out their website. Very cool. I'm not so interested in the "Ghost" figure, but that "1962 Moon Suit" is something I think I'd like. Put it in a vignette, juxtaposed w/ Wave's "Luna Pawn"  kit.

I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression they were doing a Conan figure, or was that Moebius?

Astronaut Buck:

Take a look at the models at Atomic City.  They have incredible 2001 models.  These rank among the best if not the best.

Yet another thing to add to the wishlist: Quality 2001:ASO styrene kits.

Thanks for pointing out that site, I had never seen it before.

We should start a thread that lists all the cool Sci-Fi modeling sites, or is that against the rules?

Oh Yeah, everybody remember to Vote!