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Linberg's Captain Kidd - Wappen Von Hamburg FINAL

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  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:59 PM

Hi Donnie,

Beautiful job! 

I hate to make this suggestion after all of the work that you put into exposing the hull planking below the waterline, but....  I would suggest removing the hull planking detail below the main wales for two reasons, (1) the molded planks on the Linberg kits (in general) are way out of scale... The WVH's hull planking is about three times too wide and (2) the planking would not be visible, anyway, on the 'wet' part of the hull... the seams were filled and then covered with tar, white stuff or brown stuff, any one of which was a thick, sticky goo, obliterating the visible seams. 

Based on paintings of continental ships from the period, I would lay out the waterline on the hull. Below the waterline, use an off white, as you are already using would be fine.  Between the waterline and lowest wale, I would use a dark, dark grey to represent tar. At this scale, both surfaces would appear smooth.

Another option would be to 'tar' the entire lower hull. I have seen models of the WVH with this treatment and according to shipbuilding references from this period, tar was frequently used (even inside the hull on continental ships in lieu of the red or white paint treatment usually assumed) as a surface treatment.

As an aside, I don't remember whether the Revell plans covered it, but the 'face' with the gaping mouth on the upper deck was usually 'gilded'.  The 'mouth' opening was for the lead of the main course tack (the line that kept the windward edge of the lower square sail on the main mast drawing when the ship was sailing upwind)

    

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:43 PM
I think it is great that you make the suggestion. I am still new to ship building. I call myself trying to so as much research as possible on this before starting. Well, I don't know what to do. Actually I did think about that Waterline. I know what you are talking about, but don't know what or how to do this accurately.
I am thinking two things here. This is good advice that I need to take in hand next time and also, what can I do minimally to this ship now to make it better.
I was wondering if it would look too goofy to keep my exposed planks and do some type of whaterline that would be solid below that waterline.  In other words, have a waterline and paint it solid below and keep my planking above the waterline - or would that look stupid ?

ps. Hey, I remember on my first one (La Flore), I had no weathering and multilayering of paint or sanding. So with the help of everyone here, everybody is challanging my skills.

Thanks
Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Monday, February 13, 2006 1:26 AM

Hi Donnie,

I don't think anything you've done looks remotely 'stupid'. You are doing a fine job on your models.  A modeler makes many decisions along the way, just like a painter, as to what he wants to leave in or omit as he creates, based on what he wants out of the model.  For instance, many wood modelers work in a variety of woods, creating beautiful artistic impressions of their selected vessels without any paint whatsoever. the contrast between the wood finishes adding a dimension that has nothing to do with the 'scale' appearance of the vessel.  (I sometimes think that the old kits with the exagerated woodgrain and oversized planks were intended to look like wooden models, not wooden ships). If the planking adds a dimension that is pleasing to you, by all means leave it in. 

You also have to remember that plastic sailing ship models have inherent limitations due to their manufacturing technologies (in most cases obsolete plastic injection technologies - they are from 50+ year old molds!) and the limited research material that was available 50 years ago.  Back to a painting analogy, I think that most SOB sailing vessel kits are more akin to impressionistic paintings, both from the point of view that only so much detail is possible in small plastic models and that, compared to modern subjects, very little is actually known about them... even today! There is a lot of conjecture in most sailing vessel models.

By the time you are done, you will know 98% more about the Wappen Von Hamburg than 98% of the people who will ever see your model.

 

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, February 13, 2006 8:06 AM

  Donnie, that is going to be a stunner for sure !!!  The hull looks fantastic, and mated up with that deck? Wow !   The sanding makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it?  Nice job, and keep us posted.

              greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, February 13, 2006 11:43 AM

I'll second Schoonerbum's comments - with particular emphasis on the fact that all these decisions are the individual modeler's to make.  I like the idea of marking the waterline - whether or not you remove the (admittedly out of scale) planking detail below it.

Marking a waterline on a model like this is a little tricky - but it's a whole lot easier at this stage, before the hull halves are glued together.  The problem is that the waterline has to be straight and horizontal.  If it sags, bulges, wavers, or tilts, the appearance of the finished model will be seriously damaged.  Careful, considerate kit designers mold the waterline into the hull halves, in the form of an extremely fine raised line.  Looks like the Lindberg folks didn't do that.

To mark a waterline you need to rig up some sort of jig with either a pencil or a scriber attached to it.  The traditional method is to set the hull, which is fastened to some sort of base so it's guaranteed to be absolutely upright, in the middle of a flat surface like a table top.  The jig can be as simple as a wood block of the appropriate height with the pencil or scriber taped on top of it.  Since your hull halves haven't been assembled yet, you might want to fasten them to a wall (maybe using double-sided tape), or perhaps lay them flat on the table, with the pencil held vertically in some sort of simple gadget that can slide it over the hull half.  In any case, having the hull halves separate lets you compare them with each other easily.

Here's a picture of a finished model of the Wappen von Hamburg:

http://www.modelexpoonline.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?FNM=06&T1=SM28&UID=2006021312160783&UREQA=1&TRAN85=N&GENP=

I'm not endorsing this particular model; it was built from one of those continental European plank-on-bulkhead kits that I've railed against at such disgusting length in this Forum.  But the waterline does look like it's in the right place.

Most of the work in marking a waterline goes into getting ready.  A little ingenuity and half an hour's work should produce a perfectly satisfactory jig.  (You can also buy one from Model Expo, but that sure seems like a waste of money.)  The actual marking job takes a couple of minutes.

As we've discussed before, the hull below the waterline might be coated with "white stuff," "brown stuff," or "black stuff."  The planking between the waterline and the lowest wale might be tarred, as Schoonerbum suggested, in which case that planking probably would be about the same color you've used for the wales.  Or it might be oiled and stained like the rest of the hull planking - the same color as the planking between the wales.

While you're working on the individual hull halves you might want to give some thought to another topic:  the mounting of the finished model.  If you want to put it on pedestals, or some other centerline-mounting method, now's the time to figure out how you're going to do it.  You may want to shape a piece of wood, with holes for screw in it, to fit inside the hull.  Or epoxy a couple of nuts in appropriate positions to receive bolts running up through the base.  In any case, if you make some provision to hold the model solidly onto a base you'll thank yourself later - both while you're working on it and when it's finished.

Good luck.  This is shaping up to be a mighty nice model.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, February 13, 2006 8:56 PM
 schoonerbumm wrote:
By the time you are done, you will know 98% more about the Wappen Von Hamburg than 98% of the people who will ever see your model.


That is funny - but it is true. I really do appreciate everyones comments and advice - I really like the laid back approach here. After a very stressing day, it is good to get together with common interest with forum freinds !Smile [:)]

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, February 20, 2006 12:14 AM
More pics of Hull. Just got it clamped for fitting only.





Thanks for tuning in.

Donnie
my eyes are worn out with the details. So this is it for a while. Its called one of those mid-life moments.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, February 20, 2006 11:42 AM
A different perpective of trying to get the inside shot before final assembly. The was from multiple tries. Got tired of fumbling around with best exposures-times-shutter speeds- lighting. So I guess I am somewhat happy with this shot, but not entirely.
Just did it more for fun anyway. I know that the ship does not have a waterline and I have taken seriously the advice here. Personally, I guess I am the one to admire this, except for some that may visit and want to look at it. So, I am happy with it - having fun and relaxing - that is the most important for myself. Also, not only for me but to share my build experience to others so that someone starting out (like me) will have a good reference to start from. I have learned alot here - and I want to make sure that I pass along what I have learned mistakes and all. So, its not just for me, it for others to enjoy !


In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Monday, February 20, 2006 3:09 PM
Donnie I can only describe your work by one single word: awesome ! especially, your inside the gundeck shot can easily pass for the real thing to the untrained eye. Congratulations, you are a really talented artist !
Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
Posted by Lufbery on Monday, February 20, 2006 3:42 PM
Yeah, where is everyone? That gundeck shot looks like it should be teeming with sailors!

Thanks for the great photos, and keep 'em coming.

Regards,

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 20, 2006 5:33 PM

Donnie, just got back online here and saw your project, I see you have done the Jolly Roger already, got any pictures I could see? I've got these kits and seeing your work has got me wanting to start mine. Thanks!!

 

Robert

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Monday, February 20, 2006 7:02 PM

 WhooHoo!  That is shaping up to be sooooome ship !!!  Nice job !  Hey, where'd you get that vise? :)

    Looking forward to more pics of this one, your hair is going to turn gray during the rigging !

                cheers mate!

                           greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 20, 2006 7:34 PM

Thanks Donnie....

 

Robert

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, February 20, 2006 10:05 PM
Heeyyy !!
that vise is something else - aint it ?? Cool [8D] Hehehehe
thanks for the tip on that vise. It really isn't that expensive to get.
Donnie
thanks everyone for the kind words. I am sure that there are model builders here that are much more talented - just glad to contribute.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, February 24, 2006 8:42 PM
This is my humble bench and picture of the Wappen Von Hamburg all stressed out with all the clamps on it.  I just finished gluing the hull together and got it clampped.
The tool box was almost a give away at lowes-their last one and it was opened and box was very ragged. They wanted to just get rid of it. Right place right time kinda thing. My wife insisted that I get this tool box.
Anyway - nuff of that - enjoy.


In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, February 25, 2006 7:15 AM
Donnie, not only your skills as a builder are impessive, so is your skills as a photo journalist.  Thank you for sharing such nice photos.  What camera are you using?  I am in the market for one since I lost mine a few months back.

That vise is a wonderful tool eh?

Scott

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Saturday, February 25, 2006 8:01 AM

   Looking good, Donnie !  Yeah, those little last minute deals are wonderful...that's how I picked up my vise ! That ship is really going to be something cool...more pics!

                  greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:32 AM
Thanks again.
Ok, the camera is a Sony DSC-F717. It is a 5 Meg camera with a Carl Ziess Zoom lens.




I was using manual mode able to adjust the exposure. Did not have alot of light - this was shot at nighttime with no natural light. I did not have any other light source than what was in the room and a light (incadecent) lamp over the workbench.

Sony does not sale that camera any longer. I believe that this camera is about 3 to 4 years old. However, it has been replaced by  the
Sony DCS F828 @ 8 Meg
Sony DSC-H1 @ 5.1 Meg
Sony DSC-R1 @ 10 Meg. It is Sony's latest and greatest.

These cameras are NOT Digital SLR (Single Lens Reflex), so therefore you can adjust (in real time) what the image is going to look like before you snap the picture. With a Digital SLR or a DSLR, I don't that you will have the luxuray of previewing your image before hand. Therefore, a person would have to have alot of photography experience to use one of these types of DSLR.
Now, you might be able to find a DSC-F717 on eBay or something like that. There is a small remote chance that some mail order business might have one left for sale.

I did a quick search while writting this.
I am not favoring Amazon as this was the first one I found without going into alot of time and research for this. I think you would have a difficult time finding the F717. Unless you find something on eBay. I suggest eBay more due the fact that you will have to get one previously owned. But, you never know. Someone may have one on eBay that has never been opened before.

Good luck.
thanks for the compliments

Donnie
At amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JU62/102-8931472-7772936?v=glance&n=502394

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:54 AM
Thanks for the details, I never looked much at Sony, so far, just Pantax, Cannon, and Nikon which seem to be about twice then what the Sony is in price. Judging from what I just read, they might be a contender for me in both price and capabilities.

Scott

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:16 AM
  Not to go off topic, but I use the same camera, and if you can find one, GET IT !  It is a tank !  I've dropped mine in tidepools, dried it off, and continued shooting. A wonderful camera.  Now if I could just build some ship models with colours like Donnie's, I'd be happy....
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:17 AM
 cthulhu77 wrote:
Now if I could just build some ship models with colours like Donnie's, I'd be happy....


Well, after seeing your ships on the forum Shock [:O] I think yours looks mighty- might fine !  I really do - and I am sure that ALL will agree. As a matter of fact, everyones work here is really incredible !
The point is that this forum especially the ship forum is so calming and relaxing here becuase everyone is so layed back and funny and even serious about thier love of building and creating. Yes, I like your post too, please keep them coming pictures and all !

Ok, so I am posting this one for laughs Laugh [(-D]

This is part of the Stern assembly, and I tell you that it took me collectively about 5 hours to get to the point that I could glue this thing on to the boat. The fit is horrible. With alot of grinding, sanding, ect. and as you can see the overkill of clamps, I was determined not to let the ship beat me. I was determined that I was going to get this stern on here.  It has alot of gaps that I am now going to have to fill with putty. But, thats ok !  It is part of the enjoyments. (and frustrations). I also broke loose one of the cannons on the lower deck and I had to fish back in there with a pair of tweezers with wet glue all over the place.
Anyway - enjoy - and have a good laugh - I posted this picture for humor !!!
(if ship building has an ugly side to it - I am sure that this is it Laugh [(-D] Laugh [(-D] Laugh [(-D] )


In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: istanbul/Turkey
Posted by kapudan_emir_effendi on Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:25 AM

Donnie this build will be a true gem, believe me ! the poor transom fit is a chronic problem of nearly all sailing ship kits from '60s. I think a well prepared and carefully applied tamiya filler putty will solve your problem (apparent from photo).

regards, keep up the good work !

Don't surrender the ship !
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:45 PM
This is not the final - I have some tough up to do,but was exited to at least be able to get some headway on this. This has been crazy trying to get this transom done.


Enjoy as always
Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:29 PM
 Dang! You have that woodgrain thing down pat !!!  Awesome!
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    February 2006
Posted by Grymm on Monday, February 27, 2006 10:46 AM

It's looking beautiful.   I noticed the cannons are a single mold.   Are you going to dremel out the end?  My wife's dremel (well, I claim it now), has a bit that's small enough to drill out the tip enough.  Kind of obsessive, but it lends a nice finished look.  The hull is very nice though.   I've always considered this kit to be a little "below par" as far as how it's molded, but you made it into something very beautiful.  I may have to take this one on.....that day far in the future when I complete my current build.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, February 27, 2006 1:40 PM

Well, I must have been reading your mind, becuase I did entertain the ideal of doing that but don't have a drill that size. I think that tower hobbies or someone has some ultra small drill bits. So, yes I did think about it. I don't think it is obsessive, but it would be time consuming. I think it falls in the catagory of laws of diminishing returns. There are not going to be too many people admireing it anyway.

The most lower deck are the ones that are of one piece molds. All the other cannons are two pieces and even various sizes.

 

Thanks

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, March 9, 2006 9:22 PM
Had time to do alot of building - wanted to wait to get some significant building done before posting some new photos. Enjoy !
These are not the best pics I have taken. Just wanted to get something up quick.












Thanks
Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Friday, March 10, 2006 6:05 AM
  What, are you teasing us?  No images????  That is super cruel, Donnie !
http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    February 2006
Posted by Grymm on Friday, March 10, 2006 8:10 AM
Having a little trouble with Photobucket there Donnie?
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, March 10, 2006 8:29 AM
YIKES !!! Oops [oops]
Let me see what is wrong

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

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