SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Trumpeter Amd. Chengho Chinese Explorer Ship 1405-1430

7144 views
23 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Friday, October 3, 2008 6:25 PM

Woodburner,

I have the Testors paints and like the lighter tones from the "Wood" and "Military Brown" shades.  Since the base coat is an oil based enamel the water based paints won't attack it. I have used in the past Floquil Steam Power Black as my main wash (water based) 1-3 drops per 1 oz. of water. Did I understand you that you also used in the past some sort of artist oils? I might be confusing you with Rod Millard?

I'll get some of the Polly S Reefer Grey from Hub Hobby next week.  In what order do you apply it.

Thanks

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Friday, October 3, 2008 5:22 PM
Hey Jake, Boy that thing is huge. I saw the box in a store and there is nooooo doubt about it. I think you are going to have a great time with his one.

Now here are the acrylic paints I use:

Testors "wood"

Polly Scale "engine black"

Polly Scale "reefer grey"

Liquitex Acrylic "transparent burnt umber" (from an art store, or the art supply section of a hardware store)

Testors can be had at any hobby shop and Polly Scale is common to model railroad shops. I avoid Floquil because I dislike thinners and its easier to work with acrylics in my home setting.

Hope this helps, and have fun with that thing!

Jim
  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Boston
Posted by Wilbur Wright on Friday, October 3, 2008 5:03 PM

That looks like a very interesting subject. I've seen this kit on the wall of my LHS for at least a couple of years now and always wondered what was inside the box. Thanks for posting those shots.

Looking forward to seeing your progress. Great model for doing woodtones and washes etc.

It should look great when done, but don't rush it, as we all sometimes do. 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 12:59 PM
Yup.... I sold a 50' junk a few years ago that was all teak, close-fitted seams (no caulking required), and interior like the Emperor's whorehouse.... Remarkable boats!
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 5:57 AM
I've been aboard a few junks in my life and can attest first hand how cavernous their holds are. Just enormous! I remember one that was converted into a yacht; it was one of the most luxurious vessels that I've ever seen, tremendous attention to detail and beautiful woodwork. Very impressive. I wouldn't mind living on one.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:20 AM
 Chuck Fan wrote:

The english term Junk was a corruption of Dutch word that was used to describe the batten sailed wooden ships that plied the South China Sea.   In this sense it does not have a derogatory meaning.  

The dimensions of the treasure ships does not seem to be consistent.   There is no way a ship 200 foot wide and 450 foot long could possibly sail straight except when the wind is coming from directly behind.   Such a fat ship would slide downwind like a crab if the wind is coming from the beam unless it had some truly enormous centerboard or keel.

Also a rough estimare suggests a 450X200 foot vessel must weigh in the tens of thousands of tons even if it were to draw only 5 feet of water, which is almost impossible and would in anycase make it even more leewardly.   Given a reasonable draft of, say 20 feet, and a block coefficient commensurate with the boxy hull depicted in the drawings, the ship would weigh 40 or 50 thousand tons.    That would make this wooden ship outweigh the largest steel ship ever built until about 1910, and make it more than 10 times heavier than the largest wooden ship reliably recorded.  

So I don't think the records of the treasure ships are reliable or believable.   Even if they were very large, they could not have the dimensions or proportions described.

I would be very careful about what the ancients 'could' or 'could not' do.  For decades academics and historians used to discount the claims of the Viking Sagas regarding the size of some of the Drakkar longships, insisting it was 'impossible' for such ships to be built to such size using the technology and materials of the times, and if they could, they wouldn't be able to sail them, blah, blah, blah.  ALL of those discounting 'arguments' were thrown out of the window when Skuldelev 6 was uncovered, which was 117' long and sunk on purpose (a 'throwaway,' if you will!), giving credence to the famous 'Long Serpent,' which was reputed to be up to 160' long! 

As far as the Chinese ships are concerned, the best reference I have come across is a book titled 'When China Ruled The Seas' by Louise Levathes.  As far as records go, the Chinese were quite meticulous in their record-keeping, and had whole classes of society whose sole function was to keep meticulous records!  Many of these records were kept for financial reasons, so as to keep track of the costs of building, maintenance, manning, supply, etc, etc, etc.  You might as well say the records of the British Navy at Greenwich are mostly a pack of fables, because none of those ships and people exist anymore...... Also, it is important to note something about Junks in general, not often mentioned.... Although many were quite shoal in draft, they also had a selection of daggerboards/drop keels which allows them to sail quite well to windward, thank you very much!  Much the same thing was used in the Incan Balsa 'rafts,' which in fact had no functional rudder in the modern sense, but a series of daggerboards that by being lifted or dropped in different sequences, would in fact steer the vessel quite happily to windward, or any other direction you care to name.  Chinese junks also made use of such things as watertight bulkheads and subcompartmentation, that were not used by Western ship builders until the late 19th century....... It has been speculated that the enormous beam mentioned for some of the Chinese ships allowed for rows of masts not just one behind the other, but in parallel as well........

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, September 29, 2008 9:37 PM

Tonight I just finished ALL rigging for the cannons on the Heller Chebec. Damn I'm glad that's done.  Tomarrow she goes back on the shelf to wait some more as I now have to start work on a new restoration of a clipper ship (webshots has pics.)

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, September 29, 2008 9:34 PM
I'm sorry I meant to say Timiya version of the 1/16 tiger.

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: VIRGINIA - USA
Posted by Firecaptain on Monday, September 29, 2008 1:43 PM

Thanks Julian.......my KT is on order here in the states.......just thought you had new or more info......especially on the torpedo boat, other than notification of its release and the show pics, it has been kept pretty hush hush!

 

 

Big Jake.......you slinging some glue yet........... 

 

Joe
  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Monday, September 29, 2008 12:58 PM

http://www.moduni.com/product_info.php/cPath/35000000_35200000_35204500/products_id/6360906

Hope the link works, this and some photos that have popped up after some shows. Thats all, and no, I haven't pushed my luck by ordering it yet. I had a big repair on my Volvo last week and mrs. Grem56, lovely lady that she is, will really murder me at the moment if I do Blush [:I] I admit it, I'm a coward.....

cheers,

Julian

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

Isu-152: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/116521.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: VIRGINIA - USA
Posted by Firecaptain on Monday, September 29, 2008 9:54 AM

The Trumpeter 1/16 King Tiger is not even out yet............but I sure hope it will be before Christmas!

 

Julian, do you have some release info on those kits?

I don't recall any pics other than the built-ups shown at various trade shows of both of those kits, do you have any sprue shots etc of either?

Joe
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Friday, September 26, 2008 7:55 AM
That King Tiger is a real nice model I just built one last year for a client. Tracks gave me fits to get just right, but Timiya makes a gret product.

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by Grem56 on Friday, September 26, 2008 2:24 AM

I most certainly would like to give this one a try but I think mrs. Grem56 would have my wedding tackle in jamjar on the mantlepiece if I bought another addition to my stash (lives in the attic, the stash that is, not mrs. Grem56). Also there is an Italeri 1/32 E-boat and a Trumpie 1/16 King Tiger expected soon which I will have to explain when they arrive Blush [:I].

Cheers,

Julian Cool [8D]

 

illegal immigrants have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.....................

Italeri S-100: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/112607.aspx?PageIndex=1

Isu-152: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/116521.aspx?PageIndex=1

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:47 AM

OK everybody, I posted the parts layout as well as the instruction manual on the album, let the building begin.  The nice thing about this model will be all the wood tones that can be used. I'll bet the following modelers Woodburner, Grem56 and Rod Millard will have a FIELD DAY!

All great modelrs, I could learn from. I've nevr use the oils thay speak of and will try.

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by fm9610 on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:15 AM

I beg to be different: A rudder post was discovered in an ancient ship yard. Its size and length seems to correspond to the 'claimed' size of the ship. There was actually ancient Chinese record stating that the treasure ship could not enter the Yangtze river (the modern port of Shanghai) because of the draft it drew. The 6 masted junk that took Macro Polo home was not small either and it was almost 200 years earlier than this boat.

I think the box shaped boat was actually built like a modern tanker. The emphasis here was not on speed, but rather on capacity and stability. All Chinese junk was built with water tight compartments and reinforced longitudinally with secondary keels on both sides that span from bow to stern. I remember the British did commented during the Sino-British war that the Chinese Junk was almost impossible to sink. Moreover ,the Junk sail on each mast is independent and can turn to the wind coming from any angle.

The kit was not right to depict the boat as flat bottomed, it should be round bottomed like the European ship. I think the ship is also too small to represent the 'claimed' size. Judging from the size of the doors, I think the scale of the model is close to HO.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:27 AM

I'll take the pictures tonight and post them on the album tommarrow. The sail system is kinda neat

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: VIRGINIA - USA
Posted by Firecaptain on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:17 AM

If it's not too late.......would you please post a pic of the parts layout?

 

Thanks

Joe
  • Member since
    November 2007
  • From: North Carolina
Posted by u-boater on Monday, September 22, 2008 7:09 PM

Thanks Big Jake!

I've been wanting to get a closer look at this kit.So, the hull is one piece...WOW!Shock [:O]

As  I recall,the History Channel did a show about Cheng Ho and the adventures of his fleet.Might be worth checking into.The CG renders of his Command Ship showed it to be massive.

www.resinilluminati.com
  • Member since
    February 2007
Posted by vonBerlichingen on Monday, September 22, 2008 6:36 PM
When I get around to buying one of these kits, I intend to re-scale it to the order of 1:56th or so ...
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, September 22, 2008 3:05 PM

It seem a bit improbable that the ship could have been built on such a massive scale. But I was not threr and did not see it;). That would give a whole new meaning to anchoring in deep water!

Although looking at the rigging "braces" The sure were way ahead of the rest of the world when it come to using windlass.

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Chuck Fan on Monday, September 22, 2008 1:05 PM

The english term Junk was a corruption of Dutch word that was used to describe the batten sailed wooden ships that plied the South China Sea.   In this sense it does not have a derogatory meaning.  

The dimensions of the treasure ships does not seem to be consistent.   There is no way a ship 200 foot wide and 450 foot long could possibly sail straight except when the wind is coming from directly behind.   Such a fat ship would slide downwind like a crab if the wind is coming from the beam unless it had some truly enormous centerboard or keel.

Also a rough estimare suggests a 450X200 foot vessel must weigh in the tens of thousands of tons even if it were to draw only 5 feet of water, which is almost impossible and would in anycase make it even more leewardly.   Given a reasonable draft of, say 20 feet, and a block coefficient commensurate with the boxy hull depicted in the drawings, the ship would weigh 40 or 50 thousand tons.    That would make this wooden ship outweigh the largest steel ship ever built until about 1910, and make it more than 10 times heavier than the largest wooden ship reliably recorded.  

So I don't think the records of the treasure ships are reliable or believable.   Even if they were very large, they could not have the dimensions or proportions described.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, September 22, 2008 9:53 AM

From what I can see included with the kit, is a nice thin piece of material and they have inckuded small diameter plastic rods with the rigging attached to serve as the "Bamboo" ribs for the sails.  I will do a full kit photo and add it to the webshots ablum this week. The trim work for the bow and front quarters are seperate and plated, but I'll strip them and redo them in a better gold color. Looking forward to this build, this wil be my first "Chinese Junk" type model.

From doing a very basic serce on the subject of the ship I found this listing from Wikipedia INTERESTING  The model work in compaire against Columbus is outstanding.  IF it's factural.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheng_Ho

According to Historians:

Modern study of ship dimensions

According to recent research by professor of marine engineering Xin Yuanou, the length of many of the ships has been estimated at 59 m,[28] which has been accepted by modern scholarship as more realistic.[29]

The largest ships in the fleet, the treasure ships described in Chinese chronicles, would have been several times larger than any wooden ship ever recorded since, including the largest, l'Orient (65 m long) in the late 18th century. The first ships to attain 126 m long were 19th century steamers with iron hulls. Some scholars argues that it is highly unlikely that Zheng He's ship was 450 feet in length, some estimating that they were 390-408 feet long and 160-166 feet wide instead[30] while others put them as 200-250 feet in length.[31]

One explanation for the seemingly inefficient size of these colossal ships was that the largest 44 Zhang Treasure Ships were merely used by the Emperor and imperial bureaucrats to travel along the Yangtze for court business, including reviewing Zheng He's expedition fleet. The Yangtze river, with its calmer waters, may have been navigable by these Treasure Ships. Zheng He, a court eunuch, would not have had the privilege in rank to command the largest of these ships, seaworthy or not. The main ships of Zheng He's fleet were instead 6 masted 2000-liao ships.[32][28]

 

I wonder how the term "JUNK' was coined for Chinese vessels.

Jake

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: Atlanta, Georgia
Posted by RTimmer on Monday, September 22, 2008 9:27 AM

Hi Jake,

Looks like it will be an interesting build.  Are the sails molded plastic?  Or, are  you planning a scratch-build substitute?

Also, any reference sources for this vessel you're planning on using or could recommend?

Thanks, and keep the pictures coming!

Cheers, Rick

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Lacombe, LA.
Trumpeter Amd. Chengho Chinese Explorer Ship 1405-1430
Posted by Big Jake on Monday, September 22, 2008 9:01 AM

In the mail Friday I recieved from Mega-Hobby my model of the above mentioned ship.  First warning was that the rural route mail lady said to me was. "I popped the trunk, can you get it out?"

Out comes a LARGE box that weighed about 6 pounds. Not knowing what to expect, I opened the model up and was please to see a well detailed and SINGLE peice hull 24" long, Geez this is a BIG model.

I started a new album on this build and it's located at the following link.

http://community.webshots.com/album/567263331DVhjEJ

Jake

 

 

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.