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New Bismarck,the mind boggles

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 9:21 AM

Styrenegyrene - Thanks.  That's sad news.  The individual in question must have been former Signalman. Ted Briggs. 

I had the good fortune recently to read and review a fine book, The Battlecruiser H.M.S. Hood:  An Illustrated Biography, 1916-1941, by Bruce Taylor (Seaforth Publishing and Naval Institute Press, 2008; originally published by Chatham Publishing, 2004).  I have to confess that, when I was asked to review it, my initial reaction was "just what we need:  yet another book about the Hood."  But this one really is different from the others.  The text tells the story of the ship and her crew in greater depth than any other I've encountered - with heavy reliance on written memoirs and oral history interviews of former crew members, including Mr. Briggs.  The 200+ illustrations include the best assortment of black-and-white photos I've seen. (Among my favorites:  the four propellers being hauled down an English country road by traction engines, the captain's sports car neatly stowed between two secondary gun mounts, and a 1938 group portrait of the football teams from the Hood and the Graf Spee getting ready to play a match.)  There's a page of stills from a 16mm color movie shot by one of the officers in 1939 and 1940.  And the centerpiece of the book is a set of outstanding color computer graphics, by Thomas Schmid, showing the Hood in her 1941 configuration.  For modelers, this work won't replace John Roberts's wonderful volume in the Conway Anatomy of the Ship series (which Mr. Schmid quite properly acknowledges as his principal source); Mr. Schmidt's drawings don't include hull lines, or separate views of individual details.  But every Hood enthusiast who can afford it needs to get this book - and if you want only one book about her in your library, this unquestionably is the one to buy.

We're fortunate that Mr. Briggs left a memoir of his experiences with the H.M.S. Hood Association.  (He also collaborated with a writer named Alan Coles on a book, Flagship Hood:  The Fate of Britain's Mightiest Warship, in 1985.  I haven't read that one, but I'll be on the lookout for a copy of it.)  It's extremely depressing, though, to read the Roll of Honor in the appendix to Mr. Taylor's book.  It lists the names of the 1,415 men and boys who went down with the ship.  Scarcely anything in writing has survived from them.

I hope I may be forgiven if I use this as an excuse to get up once again on one of my favorite soapboxes.  The last time I saw a figure on the subject, World War II veterans in the United States alone were dying at the rate of about 1,500 per day.  One of the biggest regrets of my life is that I never did an oral history with my father (whose naval service wasn't as dramatic as H.M.S. Hood's, but who nevertheless had a great deal of interesting stuff to talk about - stuff that doesn't normally make it into the history books).  I've said it before but I'll say it again to anybody who's willing to listen.  If you have a relative or friend with a story about his/her military service to tell, please arm yourself with a tape recorder (or more modern electronic sound-recording device) and record that individual's memories for posterity.  If possible, donate a copy to some library or archive that will take good care of it indefinitely.  Your children and grandchildren will thank you.  And the time to do it is NOW.  You may not get another chance.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Posted by styrenegyrene on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 3:39 AM
I don't know if anyone would want to start a new topic on this, so I thought I'd add it to a semi-relevant one.  I heard on the news today that the last of the survivors of HMS Hood had gone across the river over the weekend.
Turning styrene into fantasies for 50 years!
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Barrow in Furness, Cumbria, UK.
Posted by davros on Monday, October 6, 2008 8:36 AM

 a6m5zerosen wrote:
Is the new revell bismarck better than the old tamiya one in the same scale?

Revell Germany's website has a PDF copy of the instructions. It's a 36Mb file. You may want to check them out and make your own decision.

http://www.revell.de/manual/05040.PDF

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
Posted by Dreadnought52 on Monday, October 6, 2008 7:52 AM
 a6m5zerosen wrote:
Is the new revell bismarck better than the old tamiya one in the same scale?


As long as we are talking about the 1/350 kits then the answer is yes. I had the Tamiya kit and had a chance to see the Revell kit, compared the two and bought the Revell kit and sold my Tamiya on eBay. The Revell kit is better detailed and crisper than the Tamiya by far. You have to remember, the Tamiya kit goes back to the '70s for it's genesis. Even though it was quite good for it's time and time after new tooling and techniques, when properly applied are simply better today. WS
  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Denver, Colorado
Posted by a6m5zerosen on Monday, October 6, 2008 3:18 AM
Is the new revell bismarck better than the old tamiya one in the same scale?

"no, honey, of course that's not another new model. I've had that one for a long time..."

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Sunday, October 5, 2008 2:20 PM
And I'd hate to be the scrapper trying to cut up 12,000 tons of radioactive German cruiser!
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Lyons Colorado, USA
Posted by Ray Marotta on Saturday, October 4, 2008 4:53 PM

Actually, after the Bikini Atoll nuke tests were complete, the Prinz Eugen was being towed

to the Asian mainland to be cut up for scrap when "he" broke loose from the tow.

Today, the ship lies upside down on a reef at Wotje Atoll.  Far better for a man of war

to end it's life that way than to go down under the scrapper's torch...

Ray

 ]

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Saturday, October 4, 2008 4:27 PM

 searat12 wrote:
It ended up sunk at a Bikini Atoll nuclear bomb test (along with IJN Nagato and others), after a very full career..... 

Not quite!  Make a Toast [#toast]

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Saturday, October 4, 2008 2:06 PM
Well, she was withdrawn from service in 1943 (damaged by mines, and a planned reconstruction with 15" guns), but then bombed and sunk as a blockship in 1945......
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: PDX, OR
Posted by Umi_Ryuzuki on Saturday, October 4, 2008 11:43 AM

Didn't the Gneisenau also survive the war.

 

Nyow / =^o^= Other Models and Miniatures http://mysite.verizon.net/res1tf1s/
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Friday, October 3, 2008 10:11 AM
Yes, and that is why I said 'only recently.'  However, my collection these days is in 1/350 scale, not 1/700, and the production of a 1/350 Prinz Eugen is way overdue!  Correct me if I am wrong, but was not Prinz Eugen the only major German warship to survive WW2?  It ended up sunk at a Bikini Atoll nuclear bomb test (along with IJN Nagato and others), after a very full career..... 
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Friday, October 3, 2008 8:55 AM
well searat Dragon has a 1/700 scale Bismark and Tirpitz out that should match up with the 1/700 scale Prinz Eugen.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, October 2, 2008 10:49 PM

By 'only recently' I was speaking about the 1/700 scale Prinz Eugen that has come out in the last year (Trumpeter?).  Prior to that, if you wanted a full-hull model, you had a choice of either the 1/720 scale Airfix model (and no 1/720 scale Bismarck to compare with), or the Heller 1/400 scale Bismarck and Prinz Eugen, both of which are pretty crude by modern standards. 

Trumpeter has just announced they intend to produce and distribute a 1/350 scale Prinz Eugen, which should match up brilliantly with the recent Revell 1/350 Bismarck.....

  • Member since
    May 2007
  • From: Atlanta, Georgia
Posted by RTimmer on Thursday, October 2, 2008 6:34 PM

Hi Searat12,

You wrote:  "...only very recently that you could get a Prinz Eugen in the same scale with any sort of accuracy..." - which Prinz Eugen in 1/350 are you referring to?  The forthcoming Trumpeter, or the OOP Iron Shipwright/Commander model?  Thanks in advance - I have been anxiously awaiting a 1/350 Prinz Eugen to go with my Hood and POW.

Cheers, Rick

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Thursday, October 2, 2008 10:14 AM

Well, the main thing that interests me about ship models is relative comparisons of contemporary ships.  While drawings, photographs and spec sheets are helpful, I find handling these things in 3D is enormously helpful in determining and examining what the designer was trying to do, what elements he emphasized and why, and how close he came to his objective (this all started for me with half-models, many years ago). 

As other contemporary designers were trying to achieve much the same things, it is very useful to put two opposing ships literally side by side for comparison (you would be surprised just how much information you can get by this!).  In this particular case, one of the reasons the Brits lost this particular battle was that there was some confusion as to which ship was Bismarck, and which was Prinz Eugen, and so the British gunfire was divided between the two, rather than concentrating on Bismarck alone.  The similarity between the two ships, especially in conditions of low visibility is quite startling, and so the confusion is not surprising (in effect, it forms a kind of 'camouflage' all its own that I have not seen repeated with any other navy).  I have both HMS Hood and POW, and am looking forward to some good comparisons with Bismarck, and will also use Prinz Eugen in comparison with IJN Atago (very different design solutions), and USS San Francisco.  I have built Bismarck a number of times in different scales in the distant past, but it is only very recently that you could get a Prinz Eugen in the same scale with any sort of accuracy (the Heller 1/400 Prinz Eugen is pretty rough, very old, hard to find, and very expensive indeed!).......

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, October 2, 2008 8:56 AM

 searat12 wrote:
I am looking forward to building the new Bismarck too, but I refuse to buy it until I can get the 1/350 Prinz Eugen from Trumpeter!!!  After all, you can't have Laurel without Hardy (or Abbot and Costello either, which is why I have HMS Hood and POW in the same scale!!).

Why so you can recreate the battle that claimed the Hood?

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: California
Posted by rabbiteatsnake on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 11:13 PM
In truth I'm not much of a ship modeler. In the past I've been disappointed by sparse detail, no such problem here.   A few years ago I began to scratch a 1/100th Bis, Carved patterns for hull conning funnel three main weapon mounts and a launch. Just coudn't justify the expenditure of research or time. So I get this kit thinking, I'll get my Bismarck fix, plus demensions of all its bits times a factor of 3.5 = 1/100th, much easier than working from drawings. But as I said I'm a little intimidated by it. Oh well maybe I can trade it for recorder lessons, or some psychiatry sessions.
The devil is in the details...and somtimes he's in my sock drawer. On the bench. Airfix 1/24 bf109E scratch conv to 109 G14AS MPC1/24 ju87B conv to 87G Rev 1/48 B17G toF Trump 1/32 f4u-1D and staying a1D Scratch 1/16 TigerII.
  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Portsmouth, RI
Posted by searat12 on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:27 AM
I am looking forward to building the new Bismarck too, but I refuse to buy it until I can get the 1/350 Prinz Eugen from Trumpeter!!!  After all, you can't have Laurel without Hardy (or Abbot and Costello either, which is why I have HMS Hood and POW in the same scale!!).
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: California
New Bismarck,the mind boggles
Posted by rabbiteatsnake on Monday, September 29, 2008 10:34 PM
Just recieved my Revell AG Bis.  I got all excited tore into the box like a rabid jackal picked up some sprues, and then...Then.  Overload, too much stuff, how will I make all those improvements, all those parts, all that PE.  Where am I going to put the bloody titanic box?.  Will I have to rent a small apt to work on it?. The kit is beautiful but has more than a few sins. But let me tell you of those sins, omission aint one of em.
The devil is in the details...and somtimes he's in my sock drawer. On the bench. Airfix 1/24 bf109E scratch conv to 109 G14AS MPC1/24 ju87B conv to 87G Rev 1/48 B17G toF Trump 1/32 f4u-1D and staying a1D Scratch 1/16 TigerII.
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