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S.S. Majestic, circa 1906 (finished pics)

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  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
S.S. Majestic, circa 1906 (finished pics)
Posted by onyxman on Thursday, January 1, 2009 12:09 PM

This is something I have been working on since last summer. I had posted some of these pictures on the defunct Debris Field site at that time.

Last year I checked out the Ellis Island website to find some record of my reletive's arrival in the U.S.  It turns out they came over on some pretty cool looking ships. My great grandparents came on the White Star Line Teutonic and Majestic.  These twin screw ships were built around 1890 and were briefly the fastest ships on the North Atlantic run. The Teutonic was used as an armed merchant cruiser in WWI. In 1902 the Majestic was overhauled and her three masts were cut down to two. Her funnels were increased in height.  By 1906, when my great grandmother arrived in New York, these ships were reaching the end of their careers and all the classy liners had four funnels.

http://www.norwayheritage.com/gallery/gallery/Steamship_Companies/White_Star_Line/Majestic(1).jpg

I had no plans for these ships, just pictures, so I wouldn't claim this is going to be an exact scale model, but it might be a reasonable facsimile.

I had a couple of old kits to cut up for parts. A 25 year old Airfix Mauretania was brush painted. I had already replaced this one with a better job a couple of years ago. The hull shape looked similar, and comparing measurments showed that the 1/600 Mauretania hull would make a Majestic of around 1/450 scale.  I also had a Revell 1/570 Titanic that I never did put together, but some of the parts looked useful.

So after some surgery and a liberal application of oven cleaner, this is what I started with:

The new Mauretania is in back.

I was going to sand off all the old detail and drill new portholes anyway, so it didn't matter if all the old paint didn't come off.  I reduced the four screw configuration to two. Turns out the rudder from the Titanic kit looked pretty good. I faired it in with putty. Not perfect, but again, a reasonable facsimile.

It's odd that a twin screw ship would have a stern aperture like that. I found one photo of the Teutonic in drydock that had a good view. It looks like the propellers were so close together they needed that gap in front of the rudder.

I had a couple of photos showing the ship from a beam angle. From those I took reletive measurements for the deck superstructure. One problem is there are almost no views that give good deck detail. Every view is from dock level or lower. No aerial photography in 1906! 

It looks like the Titanic funnels are a pretty close match:

My attempt at the dreaded White Star Buff. It looks close enough for me, I'm not going to obsess over it.

So this is as far as I got. The problem now is lifeboats! I assume they are similar to the Titanic's, but the 1/570 ones are too small. I am thinking I'll scratch build one, then attempt to cast it 20 or so times with resin. I've never done anything like that and could use some advice.

Fred

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2005
Posted by caramonraistlin on Thursday, January 1, 2009 1:14 PM

Greetings:

 

I really like the work you've done so far on your model of the Majestic. Please keep posting your progress.

 

Sincerely

 

Michael Lacey

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • From: Jerome, Idaho, U.S.A.
Posted by crackers on Friday, January 2, 2009 12:26 PM

  Dear Onyxman:  Have you researched the book," Ships of Our Ancestors," by Michael J. Anuta ? This publication has a list of immigrant ships with photographs of the vessels. It can be purchased at Amazon.com.

                         I looked at this book to find out information about the French vessel, La Bourgoyne, on which my maternal grandmother came to America in 1896. La Bourgoyne, launched in 1886, was involved in a collision off Sable Island, Canada, in 1898 with the loss of over 500 lives. I wanted to make a model of La Bourgoyne, but did not have plans or photos.

   Montani semper liberi !  Happy modeling to all and every one of you.

                                           Crackers  Angel [angel]

Anthony V. Santos

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Friday, January 2, 2009 9:19 PM

Thanks for that Crackers. I'll see if I can get it. One of the other ships I discovered in the family history was a German ship built in Scotland with the unlikely name of President Lincoln.  My paternal great grandfather arrived on her. When America entered WWI the U.S. took over the President Lincoln. No need to change the name eh?  She was torpedoed by the same U-boat that sank the Lusitania.

Fred

edit, see correction below. Fred

  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Saturday, January 3, 2009 2:07 PM
Fred,

Your Majestic is looking excellent, and has the feel of the ship nicely. Its not every day anyone pays attention to ocean liners built before the turn of the century. This ship is a welcome sight. Barring plans, your idea of using existing hulls to get an approximation is a very practical decision.

There were pairs of walkways between the superstructure elements, with railings. They were entirely iron, and painted white, while railings on the rest of the ship were capped with wooden rails. The pair of walkways connecting the forward part of the main superstructure with the forecastle were positioned on either side of the four windows on the well deck, according to photographs in Stephen Fox's book Transatlantic. Its one of the very few books that treats these ships as real, genuine, ships; in fact its stops at 1907. The location of the after walkways are shown in a side profile of Majestic (as built) in Arnold Kludas's book Record Breakers of the North Atlantic: Blue Ribband Liners 1838-1952.

The forward well deck had a painted wainscot, and the interior of the hull along the side promenades on the same deck had the same color. I'm not sure what color it was, but recent research on another White Star liner shows that a buff-brown was used, same as the masts. The link is:

http://titanic-model.com/db/research.shtml

go to "paint" - but I bet you're already there.

One other detail - the ship's bell was located on the forward cabin just below the bridge, between the two port windows, according to photos of Teutonic.

These really were great ships, and Fox includes rare praise from Henry Adams for Teutonic - "The big Atlantic steamer is a whacker." Thats 1889 slang for cool. They were the last generation of low profile steamers, and I think the raised funnels were to bring her up to date with the newer profiles such as Oceanic and more particularly, the rival Lucania and Campania. The reduction of masts did the same, and made Majestic fully up to date. After all, she was only 16 years old in 1906 and still quite a good ship, even if slightly obsolete from newer designs. It seems that White Star kept her as spright as possible for the duration of her career.

Keep up the good work,

Jim

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Saturday, January 3, 2009 5:18 PM

Jim,

That's very good information. I think I saw a photo of the Oceanic taken from the forecastle looking aft toward the bridge that showed a walkway. I thought maybe the Majestic/Teutonic could have had the same.  I'm not sure what you mean about the wainscot in the well deck though.

I also surmise that there should have been hatches in those well decks, but saw no photo evidence that shows the area. There had to be some access to cargo holds, and if not there, where? 

I know a lot of what I do will be just a guess. The positions of doors and windows along the promenade deck is just fanciful.  I'll see if I can get those books. Thanks.

Fred

 

  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Sunday, January 4, 2009 3:56 PM
Fred,

Glad that helped. There are a whole lot of clues that give some suggestion of where various elements might logically go, which maybe adds to the fun. Fox's book has a series of photos taken on Teutonic of the crew, showing details of the bridge, upper bridge, and various external decks. I think they were taken around 1896 and show faint background details of window placement on the promenade deck, and a very good detail of the upper bridge. How Majestic might have looked ten years later is a guess, but at least there is something to base information on.

There is a superb side profile of Majestic in her original form in Conway's History of the Ship series, "The Advent of Steam" on page 118 but the related discussion is primarily about the engines.

Thinking about where to put the hatches, I wonder if it would be best to look at other Harland & Wolff ships - you would, at least, be following H&W practice. Fortunately, there are original H&W drawings of Baltic, Celtic, Arabic and Coptic reproduced in the book "Titanic & Her Sisters Olympic & Britannic" which show H&W practice in the 1870s-80s. The hatches are centered with the center line of the ship, have rounded corners, and tend to be placed closer to the forecastle than center superstructure. In the Arabic and Coptic drawing (same drawing, sister ships), the winches are placed immediately aft of the hatches on the forward well deck. This machinery is just visible in the Teutonic photos, so Teutonic and likely Majestic had the same arrangement. The winches are painted a darker color, similar to the buff or wood color of the masts. The hatch covers themselves are divided into two parts, starboard and port, and then each side into several parts crosswise. The drawings are tinted with color and appear to show the hatch covers as buff on the Arabic and Coptic, white on the Celtic, and grey on the Baltic. Buff might be a good idea for Majestic, given the evidence of the same color on Teutonic's winches.

The "wainscot" is just that part of the lower well deck bulkheads that are painted in another color, with white above. If you look at images of Titanic models the color is very visible. Its the same color as the masts, the winches, and presumably the hatch covers.

The April 11, 1890 New-York Times describes Majestic arriving in NY on her maiden voyage. It has a number of helpful elements such as the funnels were 60' apart, and that the promenade deck was 245 feet long, and 18' wide on each side, and that she had three bladed propellers. Here are excerpts from that article:

The new White Star steamer Majestic arrived off Sandy Hook during the fog Wednesday evening, and came up to her dock yesterday morning. In appearance the new greyhound is exactly like the Teutonic. The latest addition to the White Star fleet, like her sister ship, has graceful, yacht-like lines. Her three pole masts and her two huge smoke funnels, placed sixty feet apart, gave her a very imposing appearance as she slowly hauled into her dock at the foot of Christopher-street.

The first voyage of the Majestic was a very favorable one, although she met with strong head winds during a portion of the run. Her time from Queenstown to Sandy Hook was 6 days 10 hours and 30 minutes. This is the fastest maiden trip on record, and beats that of the Teutonic, which was made in 6 days 14 hours and 45 minutes. On the strength of this achievement the Majestic may be said to have won the nursery stakes for greyhounds of the ocean.

apt. Parsell says that during the entire trip the engines worked admirably, and it was not found necessary to stop them once. They will undoubtedly enable the ship to do quicker work than she accomplished during the recent trip. Capt. Parsell says, however, that he has no ambition to have the Majestic beat the record. He will be satisfied with steady, reliable work, and this he is positive the Majestic will perform. The Captain would not say, however, that if in pursuing the even tenor of her ways the Majestic should happen to smash the record all out of sight he would think any less of her for her performance. He says that the present record will not be greatly reduced until the world makes further advances in mechanical science. The Majestic left Queenstown at 2:30 P.M. on April 3, with 171 saloon passengers, 92 intermediate passengers, and 823 immigrants.

The average rate of speed was a little above eighteen knots. The average consumption of coal was 280 tons. An average of eighty revolutions of the wheel per minute was maintained. The Majestic's propellers are of the three-bladed type, which Capt. Parsell says has been in use in the English Navy for some time, and which answers the purpose much better than the old-fashioned four-bladed type. Three blades admit of quicker revolutions, and have a much better grip upon the water than four. The latter is thought to have a tendency to churn the water needlessly. The Teutonic's present four-bladed propellers will shortly be replaced by a pair like those of the new greyhound. Among the Majestic's passengers were the Hon. R. Adams, Jr., United States Minister at Brazil; Capt. West C. Weidenfeld, W. Gordon Kellogg, Capt. S. Kottowe, F. C. Lawrence, Ernest Inman, Seymour Arlington, and Dr. D. Ambrose.

The new White Star boat measures 10,000 tons, and was built by Harland & Wolff at Belfast, Ireland. Her dimensions are: Length, 582 feet; breadth of beam, 57 1/2 feet, and depth of hold 39 1/2 feet. The hull is built of Siemens-Martin steel, and, in addition to a number of longitudinal bulkheads, there is a longitudinal one which extends the entire length of the ship. The bulkheads are all of great strength, and the number of water-tight compartments which are formed by these render the Majestic a very safe vessel. She has two independent sets of engines, which are entirely separated from each other. They are of the triple-expansion type. The Majestic has quarters for 300 first-class passengers, all of whom can be seated at once in the main saloon. The great size of the vessel would admit of staterooms for a larger number of first-class passengers, but her owners had resolved to give the passengers plenty of room. The staterooms are large, well lighted, and well ventilated, and contain every facility for comfort. There are a number of palatial apartments which are let in suites. There are also several very large rooms for families. The main saloon, ladies' cabin, library, smoking room, &c., are arranged and fitted up almost exactly like those of the Teutonic. The hurricane deck affords a fine promenade 245 feet long and extending 18 feet on each side of the deck houses.

The great lifeboats, which can be lowered at a moment's notice, hang above the hurricane deck and afford shelter to promenaders in bad weather. The second class or intermediate passengers, of whom 150 can be accommodated, have a handsome saloon, a smoking room, large comfortable staterooms, and an ample promenade. The steerage has been well fitted up and contains comfortable quarters for nearly 1,000 persons. The Majestic is lighted throughout by electricity and is supplied with all of the latest appliances for steering, making signals, handling cargo, &c.

Keep up the good work and happy steaming.

Jim
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Sunday, January 4, 2009 8:39 PM

Thanks again Jim,

I wish I had those dimensions before I got the decks finished. I'll have to measure what I have to see how close I came, though I doubt I'll re-do anything.

Today I fooled around with building a lifeboat, 20mm X 6mm beam X 3mm depth. Now will come the learning experience of casting duplicates in resin. Since there isn't any detail on top ( they will be covered) I think I'll try just impressing the boat into clay to make the moulds. That should make very flat-topped boats, no sheer, but maybe I can sand a little in after they come out. We'll see.

Fred

Hmm, looks like I hit the length of the promenade deck pretty close. The 60 ft between funnels is less than I have. If they meant 60 ft between the aft end of one to the fwd edge of the other, rather than between CLs, that isn't too bad. I only have the funnels dry fitted so far anyway.

From photos I have seen, it looks like the Teutonic's bridge structure diverged from the Majestic's at some point, I assume at the 1902 modification. Seems like they had the bridge wings on top of the wheelhouse while Majestic had them on the same level.

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Monday, January 5, 2009 9:13 AM

One correction to my post above regarding the S.S. President Lincoln.  After reviewing my notes I see she was torpedoed in WWI after being taken over by the U.S.  However, the ship that was torpedoed by U-20, the same that sank Lusitania, was Cymric.  Cymric was another ship my relations arrived on, in 1912.

Fred

  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Monday, January 5, 2009 2:23 PM
Fred,

Good to see your eyeballing photos allowed for a close approximation of the promenade deck length - thats pretty good. The distance between funnels is tricky, as the reporter could have used any number of references for the figure. With the ship's length and superstructure length determined, a good side shot should be able to confirm the funnel placement nicely.

The bridge was largely the same as you have it, according to photos I can see. The open wheel on the original design was later enclosed, just as you have built her. However Teutonic in the 1890s shows that the bridge bowed out forward; I'm not sure if the same was on Majestic, or if so, whether it was retained after rebuilding. The smallish photo post rebuild I see does not seem to indicate the bowed design. Instead it shows what you have. I think your bridge is fine.

Have fun with the boats. Resin is perfect for this, and a little sanding can give the correct form readily enough. I think you are doing a great job, I really admire it.

Jim
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Monday, January 5, 2009 4:28 PM

Thanks Jim,

The photos I posted maybe don't show it clearly, but the bridge wings are a pretty complex curve that bows out in front of the wheelhouse, so a person could walk from one side to the other without going through the wheelhouse. There is also quite a pronounced camber to the wings that is evident on all the photos and paintings of the ships.

Comparing what I have so far to photos, I suspect I ended up with a little too long a forecastle deck, and too short a poop deck aft. Maybe the photo I worked from wasn't exactly from abeam, but slightly ahead of the beam making the forward deck look longer. Oh well, close enough for now. Once the lifeboats are done I don't see any technical obstacles. I have 1/400 PE from Tom's Titanic set for railings and fittings.

The ships of this era are so pretty, some kit manufacturer should think about producing one, instead of yet another Titanic, Bismark, or Yamato.Smile [:)]

  • Member since
    December 2006
Posted by woodburner on Tuesday, January 6, 2009 4:39 PM
Fred,

It sounds like your bridge is perfect then. The camber is a great detail, too. It sounds like a true, turn of the century steamer bridge. None of the coddling and amenities like ship bridges have today.

There is a rule that says the perfect reference image only shows up after a part is finished, so your forecastle is following the rules nicely. If it seems to be an issue later on, maybe it can be shortened slightly and more room in the well deck added. But the positioning of the foremast should help give the visual impression of the true proportions.

Quick note - there is a photo of Teutonic's stern while in dry dock that shows elaborate stern decorations with the name above. I think the name was added by a retoucher back then, for its asymmetrical to the stern. The name should likely be within the decorative section instead.

I agree about these ships - a modern steam liner cutting through the seas with sails set, twin funnels pouring smoke, and the name "Etruria" or "Germanic" in brass letters must have made a handsome sight.

Jim
  • Member since
    January 2009
Posted by Seegurke on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:00 AM

Hello Onyxman,

 

best Greetings from Germany - and the very first information:

Thumbs Up [tup] You're  not allone! Thumbs Up [tup]

 We share the same Project. I got knowledge of your model by the replys to my article in ModelShipWorld: http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7128. You work around 1906 - me at the time of winning the Blue Ribbon Band 1891 - each one of us pushed  by privat (personal?) reasons. In my case: Majestic won it on the day exactly 110 years before my son was born - and so we decided to deal with this beautiful lady a our "Project of the Year".

In this first building she hat three masts and a smaller superstructure (is that the same word as on warships?).

The waterline Model will be scarchbuilded in 1/250 - from plywood, plasticcards, odds&ends . So I tryed to find photos to transform them to plans by (my rest of knowlage of) descripive geomethry and get diffused by photos picked with panorama lenses - and so you'd be able to think how glad I am about any helping hand and helpfull hint in the kind of drawings, pictures form a model, handwritten scetches and something likre this.

Perchance these decksplanes may help you: http://cgi.ebay.com/SS-MAJESTIC~PASSENGER-LIST~FLOOR-PLANS~BROADSIDE-1896_W0QQitemZ320331364802QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090111?IMSfp=TL090111115003r13969

What I'm looking for is in this project as a good possibility to intensive my contact to the boy after devocement from his mother. This devocement run my modelbuilding budget dramatically down - so I'm forced to work with Odds&Ends.

 Hopefully you can give me some helpful hints.

It was a pleasure to read in here and very helpfull indeed.

Thanks for your patience with my bad english.

Thank you very much,

Seegurke

_____________

Technical Data of Majestic (I)
(from Klaudas "Das Blaue Band des Nordatlantiks" Koeher, Hambug, 1999"):
ship yard: Harland & Wolf/Belfast No.209
9,965 BRT/Dislacement: 16,740 ts
177.38m l.o.a.
17.61m beam
7.3.m draft
length:beam 9.9
persistent decks 3
Buklheads/Compartments, waterproof:13
Engine: 2* 3cyl. - IIItime Expansion Harland&Wolf
Diametre Cylinders
highpressure:
1,143mm
middlepress.:1,727mm
lowpress.: 1,524mm
Boilers: 12*Firetube/12.5bar
heatingarea: 3,710 sqm/76 fireplaces
Coal needed at highspeed: 13ts/h
Shafts: 2, Blades: 3, Diameter: 5.94m
Knots 20.0 (20.1 max)
Passenger capacity:
200 IstClass
190 IInd Class
1,000 IIIrd Class
launch:29.VI.1889
maiden journey: 02.IV.1890 Liverpool-Queenstown-Newyork
rebuilt: 1902/1903 at Harl.&Wolf to 10,147 BRT

 

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:40 AM

Seegurke,

What great news to find a collaborator!

Those deck plans would be very valuble to figure out where doors and windows go along the decks. That is something I only could guess at. I doubt I'll be changing anything I have already built though. As Woodburner said, the definitive reference only surfaces after you have built the part!

Please keep us informed of your progress.

Fred

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:42 PM

Well, my idea to cast the lifeboats in resin was less than successfull. This is the first time I tried anything like this. I ended having to cast about 50 to get the minimum 20 good ones I need. After all the sanding and filling to try to get them all the same, I might have been better off just scratchbuilding all of them seperately. Anyway, it's a learning experience.

  • Member since
    February 2009
Posted by Rampartone on Thursday, February 19, 2009 4:20 AM

I was fishing around the net and came across this forum.  My Great Uncle sailed from Cork (Queenstown) to Ellis Island on Majestic. He landed March 16, 1907.  Enjoyed your work.

-Mike

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:51 AM

Thanks Mike. The build is on hold for a while. I'm waiting for some back ordered reference books.

Fred

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
S.S. Majestic, circa 1906 (finished pics)
Posted by onyxman on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 12:11 PM

Hey, I finally finished one!

 

Fred

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Seattle, WA
Posted by Surface_Line on Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:37 PM
That's beautiful, Fred!
  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Seattle, Colorado
Posted by onyxman on Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:42 AM

Thanks! Also thanks to woodburner and all the others who helped with research and encouragement.

Fred

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